Is tipping on the way out?

[RockRaines]

I'm all for paying a living wage to people in the service industry - then they don't have to rely on me as a consumer to subsidize their wages. The tipping model as a whole is annoying - plenty of consumers take advantage, and there are more unwritten rules than baseball (there are people who don't tip on liquor, do you tip on carry-out, etc.).

 

In an ideal world, everyone in the service industry would be paid a living wage, and they wouldn't rely on the consumer tipping on the service. Until that day comes, I'll continue to tip and tip well...

Right, thats the other model, your listed prices will be 15-20% higher than what it says today and consumers will pay your tips without knowing and your wages will be more consistent.

 

However those big blow out nights where you are literally working like a dog for 12 hours until 4am on your feet dealing with drunk assholes and you actually make a ton of money will be a thing of the past.

[Harry Chappas]

Not to change gears but out of school I worked as a server at a BBQ place. Middle of the road joint average bill per couple on a night out $50.

 

This is early nineties in Bulls heyday. During a Bulls playoff win, a guy and his lady were having great time, drinks, food, Bulls, etc. They get the bill is about $75 he is cool with it, tells the manager how great I was and everything, He is comingg back, yada yada yada, left zero tip.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

My time as a server in IL/OH the minimum wage would be lets use 8 bucks. Your wage rate would be 3 dollars and the rest would be made up by tips. On the employers records and your W2 without claiming tips you were effectively make a fraction of minimum wage.

 

On really slow night or with s***ty customers (quarter beer night or the sort) I would work 8-10 hours and make less than 50 bucks. One thing to remember in the restaurant industry as well, you have to tip out people that arent exactly customer facing like the bar backs and bus boys as well. So your "tip jar" actually gets divided up quite a bit

 

Yep. And employers are supposed to make up the difference if the tips don't bring you up to at least the standard minimum wage, but lol good luck

[StrangeSox]

Oh, and tipping a bartender for beers? For literally taking the top off? Wtf? Why is that acceptable? I can understand it if you spent 2-3 minutes and made me a drink (even though i'm paying 10-15 bucks for it, why isn't that included?). But so many times I felt compelled to drop an extra dollar on an 8 dollar beer. The older I get, the less likely I am to do that crap.

lol you are already a crotchety old man in your 30's

 

eta: their pay is most likely based on tips. b**** at the owner for not paying their employees a decent wage themselves, but don't take it out on the servers.

Edited November 12, 2015 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

Right, thats the other model, your listed prices will be 15-20% higher than what it says today and consumers will pay your tips without knowing and your wages will be more consistent.

 

However those big blow out nights where you are literally working like a dog for 12 hours until 4am on your feet dealing with drunk assholes and you actually make a ton of money will be a thing of the past.

Servers aren't universally in favor of a tipless model for exactly that sort of reason, plus pretty big skepticism that the employers will pass on the new 20% service fee to the staff entirely and not take their own cut.

 

edit: there have to be comparisons out there between actual take-home pay for servers in the US versus no-tip countries

Edited November 12, 2015 by StrangeSox

[RockRaines]

Oh, and tipping a bartender for beers? For literally taking the top off? Wtf? Why is that acceptable? I can understand it if you spent 2-3 minutes and made me a drink (even though i'm paying 10-15 bucks for it, why isn't that included?). But so many times I felt compelled to drop an extra dollar on an 8 dollar beer. The older I get, the less likely I am to do that crap.

If you walk in, buy a miller light or two and leave and dont tip its not a huge deal. obviously a buck or two would be nice, but you arent the target market. Someone who sits there, asks for drink opinions, tasters, orders food etc, those are the people you make money from. Regulars and people who are interactive are the ideal target market. I ALWAYS remembered peoples names who were frequent customers.

 

 

My favorite shift (nobody else liked it) was saturday and sunday afternoons. I would always remember people's names, their rooting interests and made sure their experience was streamlined and pleasant. For some that was replacing drinks quickly without asking, some it was making conversations, some was just making sure I kept the area in front of them clean and free of plates, empties etc. If people enjoy their experience and feel comfortable coming in every week and spending a few hours with you they will tip and tip well. Thats your target market.

[RockRaines]

Servers aren't universally in favor of a tipless model for exactly that sort of reason, plus pretty big skepticism that the employers will pass on the new 20% service fee to the staff entirely and not take their own cut.

I'd dare anyone to stand on their feet for 10 plus hours dealing with drunk 20 year olds at least once. It's awful. New Years eve is literally a nightmare. Bartending or working in a bar is not nearly the party people think it is.

[Jenksismyhero]

lol you are already a crotchety old man in your 30's

 

eta: their pay is most likely based on tips. b**** at the owner for not paying their employees a decent wage themselves, but don't take it out on the servers.

 

Ha. I am and it's pathetic.

 

And I know it's not their fault. And I still tip everyone. I just hate the system. The servers are getting screwed and I'm feeling compelled to pay for something that I don't think is worth the cost.

[pettie4sox]

I think the only reason I tip is because I know they are getting crap wages. Plus as people have stated earlier, if the tip system is eliminated, the price of the product will naturally have to go to compensate for the wage increase.

 

I think the "mandatory" tip system should be scrapped but there should still be the ability to do so if you want to reward your bartender/waiter/delivery driver.

[RockRaines]

I think the only reason I tip is because I know they are getting crap wages. Plus as people have stated earlier, if the tip system is eliminated, the price of the product will naturally have to go to compensate for the wage increase.

 

I think the "mandatory" tip system should be scrapped but there should still be the ability to do so if you want to reward your bartender/waiter/delivery driver.

Agreed. I also overtip because of my background but also because I test servers/bartenders quite a bit. I like to have servers pick out my meal, I feel thats a core skill. Also bartenders should be more than just beer openers that then go stare at their phone after they've served you. You should rarely have to call a server over to you for anything. Those people deserve that little extra IMO.

[Iwritecode]

Usually thats for large groups, if its automatic somewhere else for individuals, thats their attempt at a "no tipping" model.

 

I understand that. But the first time I got burned it was with 4 adults, a 2-year-old and a 6 month old in a baby carrier. The minimum amount for the auto gratuity to kick in was 6. So they included the kids. Including the one that the waitress literally did not have to serve.

 

This was after they were out of almost every single thing we tried to order and the waitress was overheard complaining about us to another table.

 

The second time was a place we had been to a few times before with a large group. The waitresses even got to know us. The first few times we weren't charged auto gratuity and we all left what we thought were reasonable tips. Then suddenly the last time we went there and had the same waitress, she tacked it on.

 

The hostess said it was their discretion of when and when not to include it. Kind of a slap in the face IMO. Sorry, I didn't like the amount you left me the last time you were here, so I'm going to force you to pay this amount instead. Well guess what, now you won't get ANY of our money.

[RockRaines]

Booooo. Kids don't count in that number.

[Kyyle23]

All the more reason to get rid of tipping playing any role in their compensation. I remember American Life did a podcast on whether attitude/attentiveness changed the amount of the tip. They deliberately had the waiter be super flirty, nice, attentive, etc. and then they had them act the opposite. Not rude, but basically take the order, bring the food. That's it. And while it was only a few servers in one day at one restaurant, they found that how nice/attentive they were didn't mean anything. People are going to tip you how they're going to tip you. If you're a person that tips 15%, you could have the nicest experience ever and the server is still getting 15%.

 

I hate all of it. Giving a pizza delivery guy a few bucks? Why? I paid a delivery fee. Why am I paying a waiter/waitress $40 bucks at a nice place for the same work that I pay someone $10 at a regular place? That sort of crap drives me nuts.

 

I never saw that fee. That went directly to the owner

[RockRaines]

I never saw that fee. That went directly to the owner

I delivered Pizzas in college briefly, this is how it worked for us:

 

When the order was completed there was a cost associated. The driver then PAID the business for the order and collected from the customer the money back plus gratuity. If you were stiffed, no tip etc, it didnt matter. I was stiffed plenty of times and I ended up paying for that meal. This is pretty common across food delivery. I also made less than min wage there, I want to say 4-5 bucks an hour

[cabiness42]

Well you'll see an increase in your food prices to compensate for the wage increases waiters will receive.

 

I think they said prices will go up 12-14%. If you usually tip more than that, your overall price will go down.

[RockRaines]

I think they said prices will go up 12-14%. If you usually tip more than that, your overall price will go down.

I dont agree with that. In many cases they will be doubling or tripling the salary of the workers. Thats a lot of overhead.

[Iwritecode]

How did you get screwed? Unless it's an upscale place, usually added gratuity is pretty meager like 15-18% pre tax. Very often toddlers come in, don't get any food from the restaurant but leave the table and surrounding area an absolute mess that takes time to clean up. Kids make me no money but they inhibit me from providing the other tables better service. I am not complaining just contextualizing from the inside.

 

I'm sorry but if they aren't ordering from the menu (or in my case even eating solid food yet) you don't get to include them in the count for auto gratuity. Honestly though, that was really the last straw in a horrible dining experience. That was nearly 18 years ago and we haven't been back since.

 

We've since doubled down on that when the owner of the restaurant tried to get my wife in trouble at her job. We tell everyone we know our experiences and advise them to never go there.

[Kyyle23]

I delivered Pizzas in college briefly, this is how it worked for us:

 

When the order was completed there was a cost associated. The driver then PAID the business for the order and collected from the customer the money back plus gratuity. If you were stiffed, no tip etc, it didnt matter. I was stiffed plenty of times and I ended up paying for that meal. This is pretty common across food delivery. I also made less than min wage there, I want to say 4-5 bucks an hour

 

ours wasnt that bad

 

we had a built in fee to the price of the food, at the bottom of the bill it would say "Delivery Fee - $1.00" or whatever it was. Where I got burned a lot was a coupon that we gave out called Q bucks, basically a dollar off your meal. People would pay with checks and underwrite the check a dollar, then put the Q buck on top of the check so i couldnt see. Thing is, i always looked at the check when i took it from people, i knew they were underpaying. So we always had this awkward "Yea, you didnt tip me but pretended you tipped me a buck" moment at the pizza/money exchange.

 

Whatever, some people tip and some people dont, it is what it is. People who were on the delivery end of the transaction usually tip well because they hated the feeling of being stiffed. Some people dont tip because they feel they are paying enough as it is. Im not gonna change their minds by complaining about it.

[pettie4sox]

Agreed. I also overtip because of my background but also because I test servers/bartenders quite a bit. I like to have servers pick out my meal, I feel thats a core skill. Also bartenders should be more than just beer openers that then go stare at their phone after they've served you. You should rarely have to call a server over to you for anything. Those people deserve that little extra IMO.

 

I was a delivery driver in college, so I have a soft spot for them. They also get the rough end of the stick since everyone thinks the drivers get the delivery charge LOL! If any of it did, it would be a very small amount maybe $1 or the $3 they charge you. I never understood how people could stiff your driver when you literally got to sit on your fat ass and they come to your door. That's the epitome of a service worthy of tipping.

[Iwritecode]

I've never quite understood the point of the delivery charge in the first place. All it does is pad the owner's pockets, confuse the consumers and cause the drivers to not get tipped.

 

I very rarely order pizza and when I do, I usually just go pick it up myself. That way I can get it in 15-20 mins rather than waiting 45 mins for delivery.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Iwritecode

[pettie4sox]

ours wasnt that bad

 

we had a built in fee to the price of the food, at the bottom of the bill it would say "Delivery Fee - $1.00" or whatever it was. Where I got burned a lot was a coupon that we gave out called Q bucks, basically a dollar off your meal. People would pay with checks and underwrite the check a dollar, then put the Q buck on top of the check so i couldnt see. Thing is, i always looked at the check when i took it from people, i knew they were underpaying. So we always had this awkward "Yea, you didnt tip me but pretended you tipped me a buck" moment at the pizza/money exchange.

 

Whatever, some people tip and some people dont, it is what it is. People who were on the delivery end of the transaction usually tip well because they hated the feeling of being stiffed. Some people dont tip because they feel they are paying enough as it is. Im not gonna change their minds by complaining about it.

 

Yeah f*** that. I let people know they were stiffing me everytime. I kept very delicate notes on repeat customers. I knew if they were cheap, I would wait around for another order to be up and takes theirs last regardless of when they ordered.

[pettie4sox]

I've never quite understood the point of the delivery charge in the first place. All it does is pad the owner's pockets, confuse the consumers and cause the drivers to not get tipped.

 

I very rarely order pizza and when I do, I usually just go pick it up myself. That way I can get it in 15-20 mins rather than waiting 45 mins for delivery.

 

It's just the 1%ers taking money out of the little guy's pockets. Instead of them just giving us a set amount per run, they rather make the customer "pay" for it.

[RockRaines]

I was a delivery driver in college, so I have a soft spot for them. They also get the rough end of the stick since everyone thinks the drivers get the delivery charge LOL! If any of it did, it would be a very small amount maybe $1 or the $3 they charge you. I never understood how people could stiff your driver when you literally got to sit on your fat ass and they come to your door. That's the epitome of a service worthy of tipping.

one of the reasons I didnt keep that job very long (eventually went to subway) was because I would get stiffed at least once a shift. And it was usually townies in this local trailer park. Come outside, hey thanks, I've got to run inside to get the money, then nothing. I dont think they knew this poor college kid was footing the bill.

[RockRaines]

I've never quite understood the point of the delivery charge in the first place. All it does is pad the owner's pockets, confuse the consumers and cause the drivers to not get tipped.

 

I very rarely order pizza and when I do, I usually just go pick it up myself. That way I can get it in 15-20 mins rather than waiting 45 mins for delivery.

I tip when I pick up certain foods too, especially sushi. Not sure why.

[Kyyle23]

Yeah f*** that. I let people know they were stiffing me everytime. I kept very delicate notes on repeat customers. I knew if they were cheap, I would wait around for another order to be up and takes theirs last regardless of when they ordered.

 

Oh yea, we would let the tickets pile up for 10-15 minutes to try and get as many going the same way as possible if you knew you were going to the east side of town. Just hope that quantity will get you a little bit for going that way