"The White Sox, Black Holes, and Trading Quintana

[2nd_city_saint787]

Is Baez's stock really even that down right now? Dude had a .917 OPS in AAA last season.

 

Also, in reference to Chilli's post with stats, if all Schwaber is is a prime Adam Dunn, that's still a great, great player to have.

 

I would love to have both guys on the south side.

[LDF]

I wanted to post this in the offseason plan thread, but it got closed for some reason, so I'll post it here instead.

 

Here is my plan for the offseason.

 

• Trade Avisail Garcia for Billy Hamilton

• Trade Jose Quintana and Adam LaRoche for Yasiel Puig, Scott Van Slyke, and Austin Barnes

• Trade Chris Beck and Tyler Danish for Jurickson Profar

• Sign David Freese to a 3 year/$30 million deal

• Sign Doug Fister to a 1 year/$5 million deal

 

Lineup:

LF - Adam Eaton (L)

DH - Melky Cabrera (S)

1B - Jose Abreu ®

RF - Yasiel Puig ®

3B - David Freese ®

SS - Jurickson Profar (S)

2B - Carlos Sanchez (S)

C - Tyler Flowers ®

CF - Billy Hamilton (S)

 

Rotation:

SP - Chris Sale (L)

SP - Carlos Rodon (L)

SP - Erik Johnson ®

SP - John Danks (L) (He's a placeholder for Carson Fulmer)

SP - Doug Fister ®

 

Well this is my erratic idea that i came out with last week or 2, with a few corrections. i know i may get flamed or maybe not.

 

I am going with an idea it can be done. I am going to make this as realistic as possible. However b/c of the idea of the sox system is needing prospects and players who can play in the majors while the young prospects will develop.

 

^^^^ Trade ^^^

 

~~ To Stl

- Melky

- Q

- Robinson Leyer

 

~~ To Sox

- of-S.Piscotty

- of-Harrison Bader

- cat-Mike Ohlman

- 3b-Paul DeJong

- sp-Sandy Alcantara

 

~~ To Pitt - now i have a feeling that Pitt wants to rebuild and get younger players while not sacrificing theirs. Furthermore, they have younger players ready to step in... 1 at 2b and the other in the outfield. Plus 3 mil for Laroche salary.

 

- sp-Rodon

- rp-Webb

- 1b-LaRoche-salary swap

- sp-Thad Lowry

- sp-Myles Jaye

 

~~ To Sox

- 1b-Pedro Alvarez

- of-Starling Marte

- of-Willy Garcia

- ss/2b-Cole Tucker

- sp-Chad Kuhl

- sp-Yeudy Garcia

 

~~ To Cincy

- 2b-Micah Johnson

- of-S.Piscotty

- 3b-Matt Davidson / change of scenery

- sp-Erik Johnson

- of-C Hawkins

- C. Beck

- N Sanburn

 

~~ To Sox

- 3b-Todd Frazier

- cat-Tucker Barnhart

- sp-Cody Reed

- 3b-Gavin LaValley

 

Free Agents signing.

- sp-David Price

- sp-Mike Leake - 3 option yrly or buyout after 3yrs

- sp-Alfredo Simón - 2 yrs option 1

optional pitcher

- sp-Ryan Vogelsong 1 yr option 1 with a buyout.

 

around the horn

cat - Flowers bu Barnhart

1b - Jose Abreu

2b - Sanchez

ss. - Saladino

3b - Frazier

Dh - Alavarez

 

of

Eaton

Marte

Thompson

 

sp

Sale

Price

Leake

Danks

Simon

 

Rp the same except Webb.

 

money coming off the salary. anywhere from 33-36 mil

being added, 19 mil in big salary

 

now add the Free agents.

 

crazy but i like it.

Edited November 20, 2015 by LDF

[GGajewski18]

Well this is my erratic idea that i came out with last week or 2, with a few corrections. i know i may get flamed or maybe not.

 

I am going with an idea it can be done. I am going to make this as realistic as possible. However b/c of the idea of the sox system is needing prospects and players who can play in the majors while the young prospects will develop.

 

^^^^ Trade ^^^

 

~~ To Stl

- Melky

- Q

- Robinson Leyer

 

~~ To Sox

- of-S.Piscotty

- of-Harrison Bader

- cat-Mike Ohlman

- 3b-Paul DeJong

- sp-Sandy Alcantara

 

~~ To Pitt - now i have a feeling that Pitt wants to rebuild and get younger players while not sacrificing theirs. Furthermore, they have younger players ready to step in... 1 at 2b and the other in the outfield. Plus 3 mil for Laroche salary.

 

- sp-Rodon

- rp-Webb

- 1b-LaRoche-salary swap

- sp-Thad Lowry

- sp-Myles Jaye

 

~~ To Sox

- 1b-Pedro Alvarez

- of-Starling Marte

- of-Willy Garcia

- ss/2b-Cole Tucker

- sp-Chad Kuhl

- sp-Yeudy Garcia

 

~~ To Cincy

- 2b-Micah Johnson

- of-S.Piscotty

- 3b-Matt Davidson / change of scenery

- sp-Erik Johnson

- of-C Hawkins

- C. Beck

- N Sanburn

 

~~ To Sox

- 3b-Todd Frazier

- cat-Tucker Barnhart

- sp-Cody Reed

- 3b-Gavin LaValley

 

Free Agents signing.

- sp-David Price

- sp-Mike Leake - 3 option yrly or buyout after 3yrs

- sp-Alfredo Simón - 2 yrs option 1

optional pitcher

- sp-Ryan Vogelsong 1 yr option 1 with a buyout.

 

around the horn

cat - Flowers bu Barnhart

1b - Jose Abreu

2b - Sanchez

ss. - Saladino

3b - Frazier

Dh - Alavarez

 

of

Eaton

Marte

Thompson

 

sp

Sale

Price

Leake

Danks

Simon

 

Rp the same except Webb.

 

money coming off the salary. anywhere from 33-36 mil

being added, 19 mil in big salary

 

now add the Free agents.

 

crazy but i like it.

 

That Quintana deal is pretty bad because you don't get enough for Q. Packaging Q with Melky diminishes Q's value because then teams have to take on Melky's contract.

 

Why are so many players involved in these trades? Why trade Rodon? You probably added about 60 million in payroll as well with the trade of Frazier and signings of Simon, Price, and Leake

Edited November 20, 2015 by SoxPride18

[ChiSox59]

I wanted to post this in the offseason plan thread, but it got closed for some reason, so I'll post it here instead.

 

Here is my plan for the offseason.

 

• Trade Avisail Garcia for Billy Hamilton

• Trade Jose Quintana and Adam LaRoche for Yasiel Puig, Scott Van Slyke, and Austin Barnes

• Trade Chris Beck and Tyler Danish for Jurickson Profar

• Sign David Freese to a 3 year/$30 million deal

• Sign Doug Fister to a 1 year/$5 million deal

 

Lineup:

LF - Adam Eaton (L)

DH - Melky Cabrera (S)

1B - Jose Abreu ®

RF - Yasiel Puig ®

3B - David Freese ®

SS - Jurickson Profar (S)

2B - Carlos Sanchez (S)

C - Tyler Flowers ®

CF - Billy Hamilton (S)

 

Bench:

3B and SS - Tyler Saladino ®

OF - J.B. Shuck (L)

C - Austin Barnes ®

1B and OF - Scott Van Slyke ®

2B - Micah Johnson (L)

 

Rotation:

SP - Chris Sale (L)

SP - Carlos Rodon (L)

SP - Erik Johnson ®

SP - John Danks (L) (He's a placeholder for Carson Fulmer)

SP - Doug Fister ®

 

Bullpen -

RP - Dan Jennings (L)

RP - Zach Duke (L)

RP - Zach Putnam ®

RP - Jake Petricka ®

SU - Nate Jones ®

CL - David Robertson ®

 

Although this plan weakens the rotation by losing Quintana, it improves the team in several other areas, including defense and versatility.

 

Lineup - While this lineup doesn't have a whole lot of pop, they do have one thing that White Sox teams haven't had in the recent past - speed and versatility. With several switch hitters and speedsters at the top and bottom of the lineup, this lineup should be able to put pressure on opposing pitching staffs by playing small ball. Don't get me wrong, this team would struggle to hit the ball out of the yard, but contact hitters have been scarce for the Sox over the past few years, and this team would change that.

 

Defense - Taking Melky and Avi out of the outfield and replacing them with Puig and Hamilton improves the outfield defense ten-fold, as that was a huge problem last year. Freese isn't known for his defense, but he has got to be better than Gillaspie/Olt. Profar provides a lot of range up the middle, and I think that he could form a good DP combo with Sanchez. When Anderson comes up, perhaps Profar could shift over to 2nd base or maybe Anderson could become an outfielder.

 

Youth movement - Profar, Hamilton, and Barnes represent young, cheap, and high potential position players that haven't hit their stride yet at the big league level yet, but have the potential to do so. Not trading any notable young players besides Avi, Beck, and Danish ensures that the Sox keep their young talent in tact for the most part. Hopefully guys like Montas, Anderson, Fulmer, etc can contribute in 2017 and beyond, but I'm not counting on any of them to contribute much in 2016

 

Rotation - Sale and Rodon form a formidable 1-2 duo in this rotation. Starters 3-5 are question marks, but Johnson showed potential last year, not to mention his youth. Fister is a bit of an unknown, but I like him on a 1 year deal. The worst case scenario is that he bombs, and even then, it's only a 1 year deal. If he succeeds, great. Hopefully the Sox will be a spot to contend for a playoff spot, but if not, they can flip him at the deadline as a rental. Danks is purely a placeholder for Fulmer, as he will surely be gone after 2016.

 

Bullpen - This bullpen is almost exactly like the 2015 version. Robertson should provide decent value as a lockdown closer, and I expect Jones to have a nice injury-free season as the setup man. Petricka, Jennings, Putnam, and Duke can be all be very inconsistent at times, but when they're on, they're very good. The bullpen wasn't great last year, but it wasn't as bad as 2014 either. I fully expect Montas to be called up at some point and hopefully be groomed as the future closer.

 

Let me know what you think of these ideas. Thanks.

 

Very well done. This is about exactly what I think the Sox should do and this is a trade I'd be willing to move Quintana in. If you don't get a return like that, you don't trade him. Vastly improves OF defense. IF won't be spectacular, but decent.

 

Not terribly interested in Freese..but all the other moves make sense to me from the Sox standpoint, but that probably means it is a pipedream.

 

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Well this is my erratic idea that i came out with last week or 2, with a few corrections. i know i may get flamed or maybe not.

 

I am going with an idea it can be done. I am going to make this as realistic as possible. However b/c of the idea of the sox system is needing prospects and players who can play in the majors while the young prospects will develop.

 

^^^^ Trade ^^^

 

~~ To Stl

- Melky

- Q

- Robinson Leyer

 

~~ To Sox

- of-S.Piscotty

- of-Harrison Bader

- cat-Mike Ohlman

- 3b-Paul DeJong

- sp-Sandy Alcantara

 

~~ To Pitt - now i have a feeling that Pitt wants to rebuild and get younger players while not sacrificing theirs. Furthermore, they have younger players ready to step in... 1 at 2b and the other in the outfield. Plus 3 mil for Laroche salary.

 

- sp-Rodon

- rp-Webb

- 1b-LaRoche-salary swap

- sp-Thad Lowry

- sp-Myles Jaye

 

~~ To Sox

- 1b-Pedro Alvarez

- of-Starling Marte

- of-Willy Garcia

- ss/2b-Cole Tucker

- sp-Chad Kuhl

- sp-Yeudy Garcia

 

~~ To Cincy

- 2b-Micah Johnson

- of-S.Piscotty

- 3b-Matt Davidson / change of scenery

- sp-Erik Johnson

- of-C Hawkins

- C. Beck

- N Sanburn

 

~~ To Sox

- 3b-Todd Frazier

- cat-Tucker Barnhart

- sp-Cody Reed

- 3b-Gavin LaValley

 

Free Agents signing.

- sp-David Price

- sp-Mike Leake - 3 option yrly or buyout after 3yrs

- sp-Alfredo Simón - 2 yrs option 1

optional pitcher

- sp-Ryan Vogelsong 1 yr option 1 with a buyout.

 

around the horn

cat - Flowers bu Barnhart

1b - Jose Abreu

2b - Sanchez

ss. - Saladino

3b - Frazier

Dh - Alavarez

 

of

Eaton

Marte

Thompson

 

sp

Sale

Price

Leake

Danks

Simon

 

Rp the same except Webb.

 

money coming off the salary. anywhere from 33-36 mil

being added, 19 mil in big salary

 

now add the Free agents.

 

crazy but i like it.

This plan is crazy for the most part, but I wouldn't have any opposition to any of the deal except for a few things.

 

• Rodon has to stay. He's a future ace making very little money. He has sky high potential.

• If the Sox could get Piscotty, I'd want to keep him too. He's going to be a stud.

• Quintana has more value than that trade you proposed.

 

Other than that, everything looks ok to me. I just don't see the Sox spending that much money in free agency.

[LDF]

That Quintana deal is pretty bad because you don't get enough for Q. Packaging Q with Melky diminishes Q's value because then teams have to take on Melky's contract.

 

Why are so many players involved in these trades? Why trade Rodon? You probably added about 60 million in payroll as well with the trade of Frazier and signings of Simon, Price, and Leake

 

you have a point

ref Q and melky yes melky will help with avg and hrs and Q is will entice the stl for melky salary and while helping the bullpen add the other pitcher from the sox to further sweeten the pot.

 

Rodon, the team a huge influx of players and pitt can do that while helping them out

 

ref to salary add 60 in salary maybe as i will use your number while subtracting 35 mil in salary.

 

the sp pitcher are 3, 2, and 1 yr staggered in length.... while the sox prospects develops.

[ChiSox59]

Another thought..if the Sox were able to get a guy like Profar at SS, what's the chances of a guy with Andersons skillset transitioning from SS to 3B. Generally an easier position, but with quicker reaction times. I know Anderson is/was widely considered raw at shortstop, but I don't think I've ever really heard anybody talk about him transitioning to the hot corner. Thoughts from those that are more familiar with his defense? Referring more towards 2017 .

[LDF]

This plan is crazy for the most part, but I wouldn't have any opposition to any of the deal except for a few things.

 

• Rodon has to stay. He's a future ace making very little money. He has sky high potential.

• If the Sox could get Piscotty, I'd want to keep him too. He's going to be a stud.

• Quintana has more value than that trade you proposed.

Other than that, everything looks ok to me. I just don't see the Sox spending that much money in free agency.

 

Piscotty will hit.... no doubt about that. the problem i have is no power.... and no speed and can't play cf.

Q is used to entice stl to keep and take melky and contract.

[LDF]

Another thought..if the Sox were able to get a guy like Profar at SS, what's the chances of a guy with Andersons skillset transitioning from SS to 3B. Generally an easier position, but with quicker reaction times. I know Anderson is/was widely considered raw at shortstop, but I don't think I've ever really heard anybody talk about him transitioning to the hot corner. Thoughts from those that are more familiar with his defense? Referring more towards 2017 .

 

i was trying to think like that last yr... a poster kinda of gotten mad at me. but i still think it is a valid question.

 

hell, look at the Mets systems for ss and prospects.... defensive minded with good contact and no power.... they got a crap load of ss prospects.

[dpd9189]

Based on some of the discussion the Cubs, it's seems like their more focused on trading Castro for a SP then anyone. Baez and Soler are candidates but Schwarber, Bryant and Russell won't be moved. Baez is intriguing. Based on what I saw of him in the playoffs he seems to have cut down on the K's and has a better approach at the plate. He has 30 plus HR power and could be the Sox starting SS for the next decade. I'd be cool with that but I think another prospect would have to come with him (Happ or McKinney) for Q.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Based on some of the discussion the Cubs, it's seems like their more focused on trading Castro for a SP then anyone. Baez and Soler are candidates but Schwarber, Bryant and Russell won't be moved. Baez is intriguing. Based on what I saw of him in the playoffs he seems to have cut down on the K's and has a better approach at the plate. He has 30 plus HR power and could be the Sox starting SS for the next decade. I'd be cool with that but I think another prospect would have to come with him (Happ or McKinney) for Q.

The problem with trading with the Cubs is that it would suck to see Q or whoever the Sox would trade go to the Cubs, only to take them to the next level.

 

It would be a huge slap in the face for us Sox fans to see Q as a World Series Champion on the North Side while the Sox are stuck in mediocrity.

[BlackSox13]

Dear gawd the Sox better make a trade soon because these proposals are getting worse every day. f***ing hell...

 

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Piscotty will hit.... no doubt about that. the problem i have is no power.... and no speed and can't play cf.

Q is used to entice stl to keep and take melky and contract.

I have to disagree there.

 

While it was a small sample size, his MLB numbers in 2015 would translate to a .305 average with 18 homers and 100 RBI's over a full 162 game season.

 

The Sox need a guy like him in one of the corner outfield spots. He's young, cheap, powerful, and full of potential.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Dear gawd the Sox better make a trade soon because these proposals are getting worse every day. f***ing hell...

 

Were my proposals bad?

 

I tried to keep it somewhat realistic.

[LDF]

Dear gawd the Sox better make a trade soon because these proposals are getting worse every day. f***ing hell...

 

 

oh man, i am hurt... i think. maybe not. should i be.. too many questions to think about this late at nite.

[LDF]

I have to disagree there.

 

While it was a small sample size, his MLB numbers in 2015 would translate to a .305 average with 18 homers and 100 RBI's over a full 162 game season.

 

The Sox need a guy like him in one of the corner outfield spots. He's young, cheap, powerful, and full of potential.

 

you are very right there, this was and has been my question. i was thinking of keeping him and throw in another pitcher.

 

i just wasn't sold on his power.

 

but he is one of the best young, really young hitters i have seen in a while. right there with dee gordon from the marlins.

[LDF]

speaking of dee gordon, i really wish i can figure out is the marlins would trade him and what would be the cost.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

you are very right there, this was and has been my question. i was thinking of keeping him and throw in another pitcher.

 

i just wasn't sold on his power.

 

but he is one of the best young, really young hitters i have seen in a while. right there with dee gordon from the marlins.

Agreed.

 

I'd love Piscotty, I just doubt that the Cardinals would make him available unless Sale, Q, or Rodon were going to them.

 

Heck, I'd trade Carson Fulmer for Piscotty straight up.

[GreenSox]

I wanted to post this in the offseason plan thread, but it got closed for some reason, so I'll post it here instead.

 

Here is my plan for the offseason.

 

• Trade Avisail Garcia for Billy Hamilton

• Trade Jose Quintana and Adam LaRoche for Yasiel Puig, Scott Van Slyke, and Austin Barnes

• Trade Chris Beck and Tyler Danish for Jurickson Profar

• Sign David Freese to a 3 year/$30 million deal

• Sign Doug Fister to a 1 year/$5 million deal

For a "go for it" plan, pretty good (although I don't think we'd get all of that for Quintana). I'd also look for a different trade for Garcia. Trayce can cover CF and Hamilton hits like L Garcia. I like the 2nd and 3rd trades.

[BlackSox13]

Were my proposals bad?

 

I tried to keep it somewhat realistic.

Actually, no. Although I want nothing to do with Puig so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.

 

oh man, i am hurt... i think. maybe not. should i be.. too many questions to think about this late at nite.

While I like you're thinking outside the box, your plan has more moving pieces than a chess board.

 

speaking of dee gordon, i really wish i can figure out is the marlins would trade him and what would be the cost.

I've been wondering about his availability myself. Would love to add Gordon, play him at SS and bat him leadoff with Eaton #2.

Edited November 20, 2015 by BlackSox13

[ChiSoxFanMike]

For a "go for it" plan, pretty good (although I don't think we'd get all of that for Quintana). I'd also look for a different trade for Garcia. Trayce can cover CF and Hamilton hits like L Garcia. I like the 2nd and 3rd trades.

Thank you for taking the time to look at my post.

 

I wonder if a Garcia and a prospect for Marcell Ozuna swap could happen.

 

Ozuna is a major upgrade offensively from Avi and he's also young and cheap.

[LDF]

Actually, no. Although I want nothing to do with Puig so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.

 

While I like you're thinking outside the box, your plan has more moving pieces than a chess board.

 

 

I've been wondering about his availability myself. Would love to add Gordon, play him at SS and bat him leadoff with Eaton #2.

 

ref #1... i know, that is why i said it was erratic in thinking.

 

ref #2.

 

right now, without thinking any further i would definitely move Anderson to another position for D Gordon. i am with you

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Gordon isn't a guy that I've thought about trading for, but he is really good. He just lacks pop.

 

A 1-2 of Gordon and Eaton would be awesome though.

[BlackSox13]

ref #1... i know, that is why i said it was erratic in thinking.

 

ref #2.

 

right now, without thinking any further i would definitely move Anderson to another position for D Gordon. i am with you

Worst case scenario, the Sox would play Gordon at SS for one year until Anderson was ready to take over and move Gordon to 2B Otherwise, Gordon sticks at SS and with 2B up in the air, the Sox could move Anderson to 2B. Either way, that would be ALOT of defensive range up the middle. Good gravy!

[LDF]

Worst case scenario, the Sox would play Gordon at SS for one year until Anderson was ready to take over and move Gordon to 2B Otherwise, Gordon sticks at SS and with 2B up in the air, the Sox could move Anderson to 2B. Either way, that would be ALOT of defensive range up the middle. Good gravy!

that is the beginning of a tough infield.

 

btw, i like your idea of anderson and gordon.