White sox open to trading Avisail Garcia

[shakes]

It's not very reasonable to judge one ML player based on a teams previous success or failure with other players. Looking at that players past and how far that player has come since being drafted is what matters. Anderson has progressed in most facets of the game and will begin the '16 season playing AAA at only 22 years of age so there's plenty to hopeful about but that hope is not blind due to his progression. Anderson has shown that his game is improving all the while moving up through the system.

 

Why is it not reasonable? Show me evidence in the other direction. I put the caveat out there that each player needs to be evaluated individually, but the White Sox development system hasn't produced a single long term position player, from the draft, under the KW/Bell/Hahn regime. Anderson would be the exception to the rule. And considering he shares the same strengths/weaknesses, albeit at different positions, than a player like Avi, and is flying through promotions and coaches at the normal crazy rate, I am not confident they can develop his defense, plate discipline, and power when they haven't ever shown before they are capable of doing it.

 

Let's face it, Anderson needs to be a very special player to overcome all that he faces and be an everyday regular SS, let alone an impact star.

 

It can happen, and I hope for nothing more, but again I will believe it when I see it.

[ChiSox59]

wow, #3 is a kicker.

 

3. Jose Abreu and Chris Sale have been announced to appear at 2016 SoxFest.

just them no one else.

 

i wonder what that means for someone who loved the limelight last yr like Eaton.

 

Dude, it is November..

[Bob Sacamano]

http://www.thecatbirdseatblog.com/blog/201...de-a-bad-player

 

In regards to the swapping Avi for another struggling youngster: Garcia for Asche

[BlackSox13]

Why is it not reasonable? Show me evidence in the other direction. I put the caveat out there that each player needs to be evaluated individually, but the White Sox development system hasn't produced a single long term position player, from the draft, under the KW/Bell/Hahn regime. Anderson would be the exception to the rule. And considering he shares the same strengths/weaknesses, albeit at different positions, than a player like Avi, and is flying through promotions and coaches at the normal crazy rate, I am not confident they can develop his defense, plate discipline, and power when they haven't ever shown before they are capable of doing it.

 

Let's face it, Anderson needs to be a very special player to overcome all that he faces and be an everyday regular SS, let alone an impact star.

 

It can happen, and I hope for nothing more, but again I will believe it when I see it.

You are too focused on the past which Anderson has nothing to do with. Every team has busts and there's no doubt the Sox have had plenty in recent history but Anderson is his own person and his progression shows there's plenty of reasons for hope and that hope is not blind at all. Anderson is no guarantee by any means but given his past, the direction he's headed and the fact he's 22, I see no reason not to be optimistic.

 

Just because you are not confident in the Sox staff does not mean Anderson will not develop. No doubt his plate discipline needs work but his defense has in fact improved while moving upwards through the system and as far as power goes, if you expect Anderson to hit for power then he will be a failure in your eyes no matter what he does. Anderson has never been projected to hit for power. Doubles, triples and stealing bases is more his offensive game which is fine from the SS position.

 

 

[chitownsportsfan]

The "point" to selling low on him would be to prevent him from creating more losses for our team.

 

So what they are contending now in 2016? They aren't contending for jack with or without Avi. He has more upside than Melky so if it's between Melky and Avi for the majority of the starts in the OF that's a no brainer.

 

They have little to lose by trotting him out there and seeing what happens next April/May/June.

[BlackSox13]

Anyway, sorry for the Anderson derailment.

 

I have no problem with using Avi to add to a package that could potentially bring back a position player that could help fill a hole or at least compete for one of those holes. I haven't completely given up on Avi despite his not living up to expectations but I have no problem moving on from him and getting Thompson's glove out onto the field.

 

If the Sox do not move Avi, I hope he's used to platoon DH with LaRoche and serve as a backup/emergency outfielder.

[shakes]

You are too focused on the past which Anderson has nothing to do with. Every team has busts and there's no doubt the Sox have had plenty in recent history but Anderson is his own person and his progression shows there's plenty of reasons for hope and that hope is not blind at all. Anderson is no guarantee by any means but given his past, the direction he's headed and the fact he's 22, I see no reason not to be optimistic.

 

Just because you are not confident in the Sox staff does not mean Anderson will not develop. No doubt his plate discipline needs work but his defense has in fact improved while moving upwards through the system and as far as power goes, if you expect Anderson to hit for power then he will be a failure in your eyes no matter what he does. Anderson has never been projected to hit for power. Doubles, triples and stealing bases is more his offensive game which is fine from the SS position.

 

I'm sorry, the past has a large bearing on Andersons development. These are the same decision makers and coaches that are trying to develop the skills he is missing. For the same reason I would feel comfortable if the Sox had a young power pitching lefty with unorthodox mechanics and command issues, that they could turn him into something, I feel just as strongly the current Sox structure is not equipped to develop the skills Anderson needs to reach his potential. It doesn't mean they can't do it, it just means it's unlikely.

 

There is not a single example in the last ten years telling me differently, and Anderson is not the first talented prospect they have had and that we have heard positive development about.

 

And go look at all of Anderson's scouting reports. They all mention his power potential. Despite trying to put words in my mouth, I will not measure his success based on his power. But if the power isn't there, than he needs to get on base and play defense well. Those are far from a given to the point where people are counting on him as a part of the future.

[TheFutureIsNear]

An Avi + Micah package makes a lot of sense to me for a rebuilding team looking for major league ready team. Not exactly sure who/what they'd fetch in return, but hopefully a starting OF.

[Eminor3rd]

So what they are contending now in 2016? They aren't contending for jack with or without Avi. He has more upside than Melky so if it's between Melky and Avi for the majority of the starts in the OF that's a no brainer.

 

They have little to lose by trotting him out there and seeing what happens next April/May/June.

 

Yeah, I think it's considerably more likely that they view themselves as contenders in 2016 than it is that they trade all their good players.

[BlackSox13]

I'm sorry, the past has a large bearing on Andersons development. These are the same decision makers and coaches that are trying to develop the skills he is missing. For the same reason I would feel comfortable if the Sox had a young power pitching lefty with unorthodox mechanics and command issues, that they could turn him into something, I feel just as strongly the current Sox structure is not equipped to develop the skills Anderson needs to reach his potential. It doesn't mean they can't do it, it just means it's unlikely.

 

There is not a single example in the last ten years telling me differently, and Anderson is not the first talented prospect they have had and that we have heard positive development about.

 

And go look at all of Anderson's scouting reports. They all mention his power potential. Despite trying to put words in my mouth, I will not measure his success based on his power. But if the power isn't there, than he needs to get on base and play defense well. Those are far from a given to the point where people are counting on him as a part of the future.

Uh, Anderson is getting on base, he hit .312 with a .355OBP despite not drawing walks and stole 49 bases in '15. Anderson's power is currently graded at 45/80, I wouldn't call that too much power potential so I'm not sure what scouting reports you are looking at.

 

I don't deny the Sox have been bad at player development, they absolutely have been. However, they were bad at drafting position players in recent years its not like the Sox ML coaches had much to work with. The Sox have made some changes in the scouting/drafting aspect of the franchise and there seems to be a slow trend going upward. In fact, NorthsideSox posted a writeup not long ago at the top of PHT.

 

One more thing on Anderson and I'm done because I don't want to continue derailing this thread any further but if I remember right, Anderson didn't even start playing baseball until Junior year at college. That shows he has remarkable athleticism and has come a long way in a very short period of time.

[BlackSox13]

An Avi + Micah package makes a lot of sense to me for a rebuilding team looking for major league ready team. Not exactly sure who/what they'd fetch in return, but hopefully a starting OF.

Could try to package those two for Ozuna or Gordon from the Marlins. Would probably take another player but it might be possible.

[Whisox05]

Could try to package those two for Ozuna or Gordon from the Marlins. Would probably take another player but it might be possible.

 

Marlins want a starter for ozuna

[BlackSox13]

Marlins want a starter for ozuna

Forgot about that. I read they are looking for a #2, lol, good luck Loria. I'd try to sway them on EJ + for either Ozuna or Gordon. The Johnson boys for Gordon might be intriguing.

[BlackSox13]

I never say never with the Marlins but I think they'd want a lot more for Gordon.

I think you're right raBBit. Maybe this would be a trade that the Sox would throw Avi into? I know Avi doesn't equate to ALOT more but maybe ( admittedly a stretch) the Marlins consider it since they get a SP (EJ), a 2B (Micah) to replace Gordon and an OF (Avi) to replace Ozuna if they trade him.

 

Hmmm, perhaps the Sox work something out for Gordon and Ozuna? Likely the Marlins would want Thompson over Avi in any package, I'm guessing.

 

 

I found this to be somewhat interesting.

 

"I’d be surprised if they keep him. Loria clearly can’t stand the guy and everybody knows it."

 

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2015/11/20/marlin...-stand-the-guy/

Edited November 20, 2015 by BlackSox13

[fredmanrique]

I would consider trading the farm for Fernandez, Ozuna and Gordon. The Marlins of all teams may consider it. I dont know who plays short or third after you use Anderson, Fulmer, Adams, M Johnson, Avi, etc. But imagine that rotation along with major upgrades at 2b and rf. Trayce in center, melky to dh.

 

You are going for it with that move and youd have to buy a 3b in FA. Dont love it but desmond?

 

1. Gordon 2b

2. Eaton lf

3. Abreu 1b

4. Melky dh

5. Ozuna rf

6. Desmond 3b

7. Trayce cf

8. Flowers c

9. Saladino ss

 

More importantly, Sale, Fernandez, Quintana, Rodon, Danks/ E Johnson

 

 

 

I think you're right raBBit. Maybe this would be a trade that the Sox would throw Avi into? I know Avi doesn't equate to ALOT more but maybe ( admittedly a stretch) the Marlins consider it since they get a SP (EJ), a 2BBB(Micah) to replace Gordon and an OF (Avi) to replace Ozuna if they trade him.

 

Hmmm, perhaps the Sox work something out for Gordon and Ozuna? Likely the Marlins would want Thompson over Avi in any package, I'm guessing.

 

 

I found this to be somewhat interesting.

 

"I’d be surprised if they keep him. Loria clearly can’t stand the guy and everybody knows it."

 

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2015/11/20/marlin...-stand-the-guy/

 

[ChiSoxFanMike]

I would consider trading the farm for Fernandez, Ozuna and Gordon. The Marlins of all teams may consider it. I dont know who plays short or third after you use Anderson, Fulmer, Adams, M Johnson, Avi, etc. But imagine that rotation along with major upgrades at 2b and rf. Trayce in center, melky to dh.

 

You are going for it with that move and youd have to buy a 3b in FA. Dont love it but desmond?

 

1. Gordon 2b

2. Eaton lf

3. Abreu 1b

4. Melky dh

5. Ozuna rf

6. Desmond 3b

7. Trayce cf

8. Flowers c

9. Saladino ss

 

More importantly, Sale, Fernandez, Quintana, Rodon, Danks/ E Johnson

If KW still had complete control over the team, he would do a trade like this.

 

With Hahn in the picture though, there's no chance a deal like this one would ever happen.

[LDF]

I would consider trading the farm for Fernandez, Ozuna and Gordon. The Marlins of all teams may consider it. I dont know who plays short or third after you use Anderson, Fulmer, Adams, M Johnson, Avi, etc. But imagine that rotation along with major upgrades at 2b and rf. Trayce in center, melky to dh.

 

You are going for it with that move and youd have to buy a 3b in FA. Dont love it but desmond?

 

More importantly, Sale, Fernandez, Quintana, Rodon, Danks/ E Johnson

 

geez i wouldn't mind any of the marlins table scrap.... plus they are a nice minor league system...

 

now wild dreams here, but if gordon was available. Tomas Telis, Cosart Dee Gordon for Q

q

Edited November 21, 2015 by LDF

[BlackSox13]

I would consider trading the farm for Fernandez, Ozuna and Gordon. The Marlins of all teams may consider it. I dont know who plays short or third after you use Anderson, Fulmer, Adams, M Johnson, Avi, etc. But imagine that rotation along with major upgrades at 2b and rf. Trayce in center, melky to dh.

 

You are going for it with that move and youd have to buy a 3b in FA. Dont love it but desmond?

 

1. Gordon 2b

2. Eaton lf

3. Abreu 1b

4. Melky dh

5. Ozuna rf

6. Desmond 3b

7. Trayce cf

8. Flowers c

9. Saladino ss

 

More importantly, Sale, Fernandez, Quintana, Rodon, Danks/ E Johnson

I'd go with Freese over Desmond. Freese has always played 3B as far as I know and won't cost a comp pick either. Also, due to the additional cost in prospects, I'd nix the idea of Fernandez and shoot for Gordon. With so many positional holes to fill, I just cannot see trading prospects for a young pitcher like Fernandez whom will cost plenty.

 

Another idea I threw out there in another thread was Melky to the cubs for Castro. Not sure how realistic that is but as I said, just throwing it out there.

 

BTW, welcome to the board.

[ChiSox59]

I would consider trading the farm for Fernandez, Ozuna and Gordon. The Marlins of all teams may consider it. I dont know who plays short or third after you use Anderson, Fulmer, Adams, M Johnson, Avi, etc. But imagine that rotation along with major upgrades at 2b and rf. Trayce in center, melky to dh.

 

You are going for it with that move and youd have to buy a 3b in FA. Dont love it but desmond?

 

1. Gordon 2b

2. Eaton lf

3. Abreu 1b

4. Melky dh

5. Ozuna rf

6. Desmond 3b

7. Trayce cf

8. Flowers c

9. Saladino ss

 

More importantly, Sale, Fernandez, Quintana, Rodon, Danks/ E Johnson

 

I wouldnt mind this deal, but it'll never happen.

 

But nice post. I like it. That team would be very interesting. Still probably a bat away tho.

Edited November 21, 2015 by ChiSox59

[TheFutureIsNear]

With all of this going on with Loria and Boras/Ozuna I can't imagine any team will pay full value for Ozuna, espcially since he's coming off of a down year. EJ and Avi really doesn't seem like that bad of deal...maybe we throw in Beck too?

 

 

[Bob Sacamano]

With all of this going on with Loria and Boras/Ozuna I can't imagine any team will pay full value for Ozuna, espcially since he's coming off of a down year. EJ and Avi really doesn't seem like that bad of deal...maybe we throw in Beck too?

 

I just don't see why they would want Avi wth Yelich as the primary LF and Stanton as the primary RF unless they decide to sacrifice a little defense in center with Yelich's bat there.

[BlackSox13]

I just don't see why they would want Avi wth Yelich as the primary LF and Stanton as the primary RF unless they decide to sacrifice a little defense in center with Yelich's bat there.

You mentioned Yelich so I had to look him up to be sure but he did start 19 games and played in a total of 36 games in CF so he could be an option, though not optimal. Can't help but think that as soon as the Sox mentioned Ozuna, the Marlins counter with Thompson instead of Avi. Would love to see a Sox outfield of Eaton in LF, Thompson in CF and Ozuna in RF.

 

I actually like the idea of trading for Ozuna much much more than trading for Puig.

 

 

[GreenSox]

I would consider trading the farm for Fernandez, Ozuna and Gordon. The Marlins of all teams may consider it. I dont know who plays short or third after you use Anderson, Fulmer, Adams, M Johnson, Avi, etc. But imagine that rotation along with major upgrades at 2b and rf. Trayce in center, melky to dh.

 

You are going for it with that move and youd have to buy a 3b in FA. Dont love it but desmond?

 

1. Gordon 2b

2. Eaton lf

3. Abreu 1b

4. Melky dh

5. Ozuna rf

6. Desmond 3b

7. Trayce cf

8. Flowers c

9. Saladino ss

 

More importantly, Sale, Fernandez, Quintana, Rodon, Danks/ E Johnson

That team would barely play .500. Not one of the 3 big weaknesses addressed.

 

Trade the farm for 3 Marlins. Good lord.

 

 

Ozuna had a 1.1 WAR and a sub .700 OPS and over 100 Ks. Eric Johnson + for that?

Fernandez is great but the position is not a priority. Poor use of resources.

 

 

Gordon was obtained for a top 50ish prospect. Marlins made a nice trade there. So did the Angels who grabbed that prospect for 1 year of Kendrick.

Those are the kind of moves to make. Not buy high off of a career year.

 

Edited November 21, 2015 by GreenSox

[nitetrain8601]

That team would barely play .500. Not one of the 3 big weaknesses addressed. Trade the farm or 3 Marlins? Good lord.

 

 

Ozuna had a 1.1 WAR and a sub .700 OPS and over 100 Ks. Did I read Eric Johnson + for that? Does anybody even look at numbers?

 

Fernandez is great but the position is not a priority. Poor use of resources.

 

Gordon was traded for a top 50ish prospect who was then flipped for 1 year of Kendrick. yes he had a career year...which is exactly when the Sox should not trade for him.

 

I agree with you. On the surface, looks exciting, but we don't need Fernandez. He's electric, but the thing we actually can develop is pitching. Ozuna is meh. Gordon I'm still skeptical.

[GreenSox]

If people want Ozuna so badly, trade Avi for him. Change of destination trade. Both have basically sucked: too little OBP and too many Ks.