Eminor3rd Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 11:51 AM) LOL, I thought of you right when I saw this "news." Sucks to say I told you so on Avi... All I've ever wanted for Christmas was to be wrong about Avisail Garcia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 11:42 AM) nice post, if i can let me add Hawkins and Barum into the mix LDF, you are not supposed to criticize Hawkins on this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonxctf Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 06:27 PM) Avi in 2013 w/ Sox 111 wRC+, 0.0 fWAR Trayce in 2015 w/ Sox 144 wRC+, 1.5 fWAR And that also ignores the part of 2013 where Avi was with the Tigers, in which he managed to be sub-replacement level alongside a 73 wRC+ What was Trayce's wRC/WAR for the last 2 months of the season? That's kind of my point. In small sample sizes, the guy was gangbusters for the first 30 or so at bats. Then he dropped off dramatically. I'm sure Avi's wrc/war was great for the first month or two of the season when he was hitting above .300 too in 155AB's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 12:34 PM) What was Trayce's wRC/WAR for the last 2 months of the season? That's kind of my point. In small sample sizes, the guy was gangbusters for the first 30 or so at bats. Then he dropped off dramatically. I'm sure Avi's wrc/war was great for the first month or two of the season when he was hitting above .300 too in 155AB's. Trayce is much more valuable though because he's a similar hitter and plays way better defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 12:34 PM) What was Trayce's wRC/WAR for the last 2 months of the season? That's kind of my point. In small sample sizes, the guy was gangbusters for the first 30 or so at bats. Then he dropped off dramatically. I'm sure Avi's wrc/war was great for the first month or two of the season when he was hitting above .300 too in 155AB's. You're still ignoring defense here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 QUOTE (oldsox @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 07:30 PM) LDF, you are not supposed to criticize Hawkins on this site. seriously i am being serious. i have not criticize Hawkins, i did not uses words to demean him or anything. see. now i did imply, but seriously, it is not criticizing. who knows, maybe it is a compliment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 12:39 PM) Trayce is much more valuable though because he's a similar hitter and plays way better defense. Also was a great baserunner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 07:28 PM) All I've ever wanted for Christmas was to be wrong about Avisail Garcia i am still waiting for my xmas..... letting the owners finally know how to manage a team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonxctf Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 07:39 PM) Trayce is much more valuable though because he's a similar hitter and plays way better defense. Agree, 100%. But the reason why there's a Avi vs Trayce discussion in the first place, is because of LaRoche. If the Sox had the ability to have a DH/OF platoon of Cabrera/Avi, then both could be kept. Again, I think both still have tremendous upside and like them both. I just dont like that they have to pick one or the other at this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 08:31 PM) Agree, 100%. But the reason why there's a Avi vs Trayce discussion in the first place, is because of LaRoche. If the Sox had the ability to have a DH/OF platoon of Cabrera/Avi, then both could be kept. Again, I think both still have tremendous upside and like them both. I just dont like that they have to pick one or the other at this stage. here is an idea possibly a solution. eat laroche contract if not, bench him. move melky to dh and play avi and trace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) I've seen enough of Avi's defense for me to think that his bat would have to become elite for him to ever be a great player. I'll put those chances at less than 5%. While I hate selling low, if Garcia has any remaining value, I support trading him. Edited November 19, 2015 by GREEDY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I am sure most every player on our team is available in a trade if the return is right. I do agree with some that have expressed concerns about our team management and their ability to judge talent. We have let a lot of players go that could have continued (and did with other teams) to be productive contributors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 10:23 AM) Then we have a bad hitter who plays good defense instead of a bad hitter who plays bad defense. The REAL plan should be to move Avi and then try to upgrade over Thompson the rest of the offseason, falling back on Thompson if necessary. I agree with you aside from the bothering to move Avi part. His value is basically nothing right now. He actually had some success with the Sox in 2013 and 2014. He'd always succeeded. 2015 was his first full season and his first opportunity to have it proven to him that there's a lot he's not good at. Presumably he's working his ass off on all of this things. I'd give him one more chance this year in AAA or part-time OF/DH to see what happens. Not because I assume it will work out, but because he's currently not worth anything in trade. I realize it's $2.3 million, but whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 01:34 PM) What was Trayce's wRC/WAR for the last 2 months of the season? That's kind of my point. In small sample sizes, the guy was gangbusters for the first 30 or so at bats. Then he dropped off dramatically. I'm sure Avi's wrc/war was great for the first month or two of the season when he was hitting above .300 too in 155AB's. But nobody is arguing that Trayce's value comes from his ability to put up a 144 wRC+. Trayce is better because he's a good defender and baserunner, and no worse with the bat than Avi, whereas Avi is bad at literally everything except throwing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconOnAStick Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) My idea from the start has been to acquire Billy Hamilton, put Trayce in RF and Eaton in LF then rolling with an Avi/Melky 4OF and DH platoon. LaRoche even gets a few DH AB's, since this plan packs 5 OF on the roster while only soaking 1 bench spot. This matters because trading LaRoche is impossible and eating his $11m is fantasy. Lots of OF versatility too. Rolling with the defensive oriented OF in away games at Kaufmann, Comerica, etc. while introducing a little more pop with Melky or Avi at the Cell. If the Sox get a lead throw in the defensive replacement. Hamilton and Trayce can both PR like nobodies business, which is a colossally underrated tool to have for those crucial 1 run games in this deadball era. The downside is the best power bat of the 5 is likely Eaton. The whole group may not hit more than 30 HR a year which puts massive pressure on Abreu and the IF (yikes!) to make up the power. But for a team in the Sox position sacrifices must be made, we aren't getting a group of 3 OF that play good defense, get on base a lot, can run and hit >50 HR as a group. Edited November 19, 2015 by Alexeihyeess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 03:14 PM) My idea from the start has been to acquire Billy Hamilton, put Trayce in RF and Eaton in LF then rolling with an Avi/Melky 4OF and DH platoon. LaRoche even gets a few DH AB's, since this plan packs 5 OF on the roster while only soaking 1 bench spot. This matters because trading LaRoche is impossible and eating his $11m is fantasy. Lots of OF versatility too. Rolling with the defensive oriented OF in away games at Kaufmann, Comerica, etc. while introducing a little more pop with Melky or Avi at the Cell. If the Sox get a lead throw in the defensive replacement. Hamilton and Trayce can both PR like nobodies business, which is a colossally underrated tool to have for those crucial 1 run games in this deadball era. The downside is the best power bat of the 5 is likely Eaton. The whole group may not hit more than 30 HR a year which puts massive pressure on Abreu and the IF (yikes!) to make up the power. But for a team in the Sox position sacrifices must be made, we aren't getting a group of 3 OF that play good defense, get on base a lot, can run and hit >50 HR as a group. Billy Hamilton would be a great addition if he knew how to hit above .230. The dude is probably the fastest guy in baseball, but he can't ever put his speed to good use because he rarely gets on base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth05 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 03:01 PM) But nobody is arguing that Trayce's value comes from his ability to put up a 144 wRC+. Trayce is better because he's a good defender and baserunner, and no worse with the bat than Avi, whereas Avi is bad at literally everything except throwing. Send him down and convert him into a reliever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) Same Sox management who said he was a 30/30 guy are the same wanting to trade him. Sox are lacking badly in talent evaluation. Edited November 20, 2015 by Soxfest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 06:03 PM) Same Sox management who said he was a 30/30 guy are the same wanting to trade him. Sox are lacking badly in talent evaluation. Do you have a link where someone in Sox management said he was a 30/30 guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 06:05 PM) Do you have a link where someone in Sox management said he was a 30/30 guy? Kenny has. I'll look later though to see if I can dig any up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 06:05 PM) Do you have a link where someone in Sox management said he was a 30/30 guy? Garcia’s biggest fan seems to be Executive Vice President Ken Williams, who made a comment to reporters prior to Thursday’s game about the young outfielder sporting a 30/30 ceiling. That is 30 home runs and 30 stolen bases in a single season. Williams made a similar comment regarding Garcia’s speed in February as reported by MLB.com’s Scott Merkin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 06:03 PM) Same Sox management who said he was a 30/30 guy are the same wanting to trade him. Sox are lacking badly in talent evaluation. They also toyed with the idea of him playing center after the 2013 season lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Soxfest @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 06:28 PM) Garcia’s biggest fan seems to be Executive Vice President Ken Williams, who made a comment to reporters prior to Thursday’s game about the young outfielder sporting a 30/30 ceiling. That is 30 home runs and 30 stolen bases in a single season. Williams made a similar comment regarding Garcia’s speed in February as reported by MLB.com’s Scott Merkin: Saying he has a 30/30 ceiling isn't saying he is a 30/30 guy. And if he could swing at pitches he could hit, he might reach that ceiling. Where they were way off was defensively. They thought he was a CF. Edited November 20, 2015 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 06:43 PM) Saying he has a 30/30 ceiling isn't saying he is a 30/30 guy. It's basically saying he can be though. He doesn't look anything near that now. Obviously he isn't if he hasn't done it. Edited November 20, 2015 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 01:45 AM) It's basically saying he can be though. He doesn't look anything near that now. We've gone over this, they meant for his Sox career Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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