LDF Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 QUOTE (Special K @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 04:39 PM) You actually forgot OF as well. Look, if the Sox intend to fill those areas of need with quality players, then by all means take a pass on Walker... But i do think we need to be looking towards a win-now approach. We have a great core and this is the window in which we should be trying to do something. These are Sale and Abreu's best years... we can take a 5 year approach, but there's no guarantee those guys will be around when the Sox develop young players. That's why i think we need a win-now approach. I also have zero confidence in the Sox developing talented offensive players. I mean, we have to go back a decade to talk about the last time the sox developed a talented offensive hitter, which is why i'm interested in upgrading in every possible way. I can stomach Sanchez and Johnson at 2b IF we get improvement at other areas. But i'll tell you right now, from what I've seen of Sanchez and Johnson, they will end up being nothing more than utility players in the MLB... So if we march out Saladino at 3rd, Sanchez at short, Johnson at 2b next year, Flowers at catcher, it's going to be another year of just abysmal offense. I can guarantee you that. That's why, when I see a chance to upgrade, I am interested... and then the FO will wonder why the fans don't come out and support the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 QUOTE (Special K @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 09:39 AM) You actually forgot OF as well. Look, if the Sox intend to fill those areas of need with quality players, then by all means take a pass on Walker... But i do think we need to be looking towards a win-now approach. We have a great core and this is the window in which we should be trying to do something. These are Sale and Abreu's best years... we can take a 5 year approach, but there's no guarantee those guys will be around when the Sox develop young players. That's why i think we need a win-now approach. I also have zero confidence in the Sox developing talented offensive players. I mean, we have to go back a decade to talk about the last time the sox developed a talented offensive hitter, which is why i'm interested in upgrading in every possible way. I can stomach Sanchez and Johnson at 2b IF we get improvement at other areas. But i'll tell you right now, from what I've seen of Sanchez and Johnson, they will end up being nothing more than utility players in the MLB... So if we march out Saladino at 3rd, Sanchez at short, Johnson at 2b next year, Flowers at catcher, it's going to be another year of just abysmal offense. I can guarantee you that. That's why, when I see a chance to upgrade, I am interested... I didn't forget about the outfield, just don't see it as important of a need as 3B, SS and C. As long as Melky,Avi and LaRoche are on the roster,theres not much the Sox can do in the outfield since neither Melky nor Avi can be used full time at DH with LaRoche on the team. I'd prefer at least one of the three moved in a trade, perferably LaRoche but that isnt going to happen and Melky would be a hard sell ( I cling to hope he still could be moved) which leaves Avi whom has such little value that he would be an add-on to an already proposed trade package. Back to Walker, the money and prospects that would be used for one year of a 30 year old 2B could be better used on positions that are in more need of upgrading, 3B and SS especially. Freese is expected to command a similar salary to Walker and could solidify 3B for the next two or three years which buys the Sox time to develop or trade for a young 3B and Freese would only cost the roughly 10M per year and no prospects or draft picks. That leaves the Sox with 10M to spare with saved prospects that were not used for Walker and the Sox could then try to swing a deal with the Marlins for Dee Gordon whom projects to earn about 6MM in '16 and is under team control through the '18 season. Maybe the Marlins would be interested in a package of Erik Johnson, Micah Johnson/ Avi? Gordon played SS before he was moved to 2B so he provides some flexibility although he's definitely better at 2B, which is fine. Saladino can play SS with Sanchez becoming the utility he's likely destined to become anyway and things suddenly start falling into place. Saladino buys the Sox another year of seeing how Anderson progresses at the SS position. A middle infield of Gordon, Saladino, Sanchez provides the Sox with a large amount of flexibility defensively and some offensively in the lineup card. All three are capable of playing SS orr 2B with Saladino serving as Freese's backup at 3B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 If we don't give up much to get him, I'm for it. If he does good, we can offer a QO after 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 02:58 PM) I didn't forget about the outfield, just don't see it as important of a need as 3B, SS and C. As long as Melky,Avi and LaRoche are on the roster,theres not much the Sox can do in the outfield since neither Melky nor Avi can be used full time at DH with LaRoche on the team. I'd prefer at least one of the three moved in a trade, perferably LaRoche but that isnt going to happen and Melky would be a hard sell ( I cling to hope he still could be moved) which leaves Avi whom has such little value that he would be an add-on to an already proposed trade package. Back to Walker, the money and prospects that would be used for one year of a 30 year old 2B could be better used on positions that are in more need of upgrading, 3B and SS especially. Freese is expected to command a similar salary to Walker and could solidify 3B for the next two or three years which buys the Sox time to develop or trade for a young 3B and Freese would only cost the roughly 10M per year and no prospects or draft picks. That leaves the Sox with 10M to spare with saved prospects that were not used for Walker and the Sox could then try to swing a deal with the Marlins for Dee Gordon whom projects to earn about 6MM in '16 and is under team control through the '18 season. Maybe the Marlins would be interested in a package of Erik Johnson, Micah Johnson/ Avi? Gordon played SS before he was moved to 2B so he provides some flexibility although he's definitely better at 2B, which is fine. Saladino can play SS with Sanchez becoming the utility he's likely destined to become anyway and things suddenly start falling into place. Saladino buys the Sox another year of seeing how Anderson progresses at the SS position. A middle infield of Gordon, Saladino, Sanchez provides the Sox with a large amount of flexibility defensively and some offensively in the lineup card. All three are capable of playing SS orr 2B with Saladino serving as Freese's backup at 3B. Why would the Marlins try to trade Gordon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 QUOTE (oldsox @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 02:09 PM) Why would the Marlins try to trade Gordon? Why would the Marlins do a lot of things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 QUOTE (oldsox @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 02:09 PM) Why would the Marlins try to trade Gordon? The Marlins are reportedly listening to offers on Ozuna and Fernandez so why not Gordon who is set to make roughly 6M in his first year of arbitration? Outside of the Stanton extension, Loria is one seriously cheap bastard QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 02:15 PM) Why would the Marlins do a lot of things +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 01:58 PM) I didn't forget about the outfield, just don't see it as important of a need as 3B, SS and C. As long as Melky,Avi and LaRoche are on the roster,theres not much the Sox can do in the outfield since neither Melky nor Avi can be used full time at DH with LaRoche on the team. I'd prefer at least one of the three moved in a trade, perferably LaRoche but that isnt going to happen and Melky would be a hard sell ( I cling to hope he still could be moved) which leaves Avi whom has such little value that he would be an add-on to an already proposed trade package. Back to Walker, the money and prospects that would be used for one year of a 30 year old 2B could be better used on positions that are in more need of upgrading, 3B and SS especially. Freese is expected to command a similar salary to Walker and could solidify 3B for the next two or three years which buys the Sox time to develop or trade for a young 3B and Freese would only cost the roughly 10M per year and no prospects or draft picks. That leaves the Sox with 10M to spare with saved prospects that were not used for Walker and the Sox could then try to swing a deal with the Marlins for Dee Gordon whom projects to earn about 6MM in '16 and is under team control through the '18 season. Maybe the Marlins would be interested in a package of Erik Johnson, Micah Johnson/ Avi? Gordon played SS before he was moved to 2B so he provides some flexibility although he's definitely better at 2B, which is fine. Saladino can play SS with Sanchez becoming the utility he's likely destined to become anyway and things suddenly start falling into place. Saladino buys the Sox another year of seeing how Anderson progresses at the SS position. A middle infield of Gordon, Saladino, Sanchez provides the Sox with a large amount of flexibility defensively and some offensively in the lineup card. All three are capable of playing SS orr 2B with Saladino serving as Freese's backup at 3B. If you're plan plays out, then I'm all for it. Feel like the market for Freese will be a little bit more given the scarcity of third basemen in the league. I just can't stomach an infield of Saladino, Sanchez and Johnson. Because to me, it's not like going through growing pains with a player because I do not believe any one of these guys will become an everyday started in the league (except for maybe Johnson). That is why I am advocating for an upgrade at any / all of the positions we mentioned (including outfield, if at all possible). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 QUOTE (oldsox @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 08:09 PM) Why would the Marlins try to trade Gordon? i agree.... they are building a nice team.... they need more pitching. but still. btw, when i mention dee gordon, i would and still like thim, but that was a passing comment. still wouldn't hurt to make a phone call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 QUOTE (Special K @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 03:49 PM) If you're plan plays out, then I'm all for it. Feel like the market for Freese will be a little bit more given the scarcity of third basemen in the league. I just can't stomach an infield of Saladino, Sanchez and Johnson. Because to me, it's not like going through growing pains with a player because I do not believe any one of these guys will become an everyday started in the league (except for maybe Johnson). That is why I am advocating for an upgrade at any / all of the positions we mentioned (including outfield, if at all possible). You're probably right about Freese and I agree about not wanting to see all three of Sanchez, Saladino and Micah on the field at the same time. I'm not counting on it but I'd really like to see the Sox move Melky, Micah and Avi in trades to open up roster spots for Thompson and possibly sign Freese. I really am curious about See Gordon though, he'd be a great fit with the Sox and is in his prime. I wonder if the Cubs would consider a Melky for Castro swap of some sort. The Sox would save money annually whereas the cubs save just over 11M in total for future payroll obligations. Supposedly the cubs are thinking about moving Schwarber back to catcher which would open up LF. I'm really not a fan of Castro, just trying to think outside the box is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 06:14 PM) You're probably right about Freese and I agree about not wanting to see all three of Sanchez, Saladino and Micah on the field at the same time. I'm not counting on it but I'd really like to see the Sox move Melky, Micah and Avi in trades to open up roster spots for Thompson and possibly sign Freese. I really am curious about See Gordon though, he'd be a great fit with the Sox and is in his prime. I wonder if the Cubs would consider a Melky for Castro swap of some sort. The Sox would save money annually whereas the cubs save just over 11M in total for future payroll obligations. Supposedly the cubs are thinking about moving Schwarber back to catcher which would open up LF. I'm really not a fan of Castro, just trying to think outside the box is all. We'd definitely be buying low on Castro, which I think is a good idea. Is there any chance he could play third? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Nov 21, 2015 -> 12:14 AM) You're probably right about Freese and I agree about not wanting to see all three of Sanchez, Saladino and Micah on the field at the same time. I'm not counting on it but I'd really like to see the Sox move Melky, Micah and Avi in trades to open up roster spots for Thompson and possibly sign Freese. I really am curious about See Gordon though, he'd be a great fit with the Sox and is in his prime. I wonder if the Cubs would consider a Melky for Castro swap of some sort. The Sox would save money annually whereas the cubs save just over 11M in total for future payroll obligations. Supposedly the cubs are thinking about moving Schwarber back to catcher which would open up LF. I'm really not a fan of Castro, just trying to think outside the box is all. No chance in hell the Cubs would take Melky. They don't need to cut payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 It doesn't work out one for one with Walker because of where each team is, but I could actually see the Pirates being willing to have some interest in Danks. They need to fill a rotation slot for 1 year because they're competitive right now and look down the road to having Glasnow and maybe Taillon taking spots in the next 2 years, they have some money available after retirements, and they could use a veteran left hander in their rotation alongside the guys they have. Plus, jumping leagues could help Danks have a better year too. Walker is a poor matchup in that deal because they'd want to use walker to get something useful, just been pondering that as a way to clear some money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 This is another reason why 2016 is a building year. Sox have 2 promising young second basemen. Why trade for Gordon off of a career year or The inconsistent Castro who is owed $40 million? A building year also provides more info on Fulmer and Adams, as well as several of the promising A ball prospects. Too many weaknesses on this team. There are some small Moves to be made but you have to pull the trigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 22, 2015 -> 01:18 PM) It doesn't work out one for one with Walker because of where each team is, but I could actually see the Pirates being willing to have some interest in Danks. They need to fill a rotation slot for 1 year because they're competitive right now and look down the road to having Glasnow and maybe Taillon taking spots in the next 2 years, they have some money available after retirements, and they could use a veteran left hander in their rotation alongside the guys they have. Plus, jumping leagues could help Danks have a better year too. Walker is a poor matchup in that deal because they'd want to use walker to get something useful, just been pondering that as a way to clear some money I'd trade Danks for Walker straight up in an instant, but I don't see the Pirates being interested in a deal like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 22, 2015 -> 07:18 PM) It doesn't work out one for one with Walker because of where each team is, but I could actually see the Pirates being willing to have some interest in Danks. They need to fill a rotation slot for 1 year because they're competitive right now and look down the road to having Glasnow and maybe Taillon taking spots in the next 2 years, they have some money available after retirements, and they could use a veteran left hander in their rotation alongside the guys they have. Plus, jumping leagues could help Danks have a better year too. Walker is a poor matchup in that deal because they'd want to use walker to get something useful, just been pondering that as a way to clear some money in a way maybe.... b/c as you said, a 1 yrs timeline. but not if the sox don't add $$$ and maybe a low level prospect. they are more restricted than most of any team out there. well maybe except for cincy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 23, 2015 -> 08:17 AM) I'd trade Danks for Walker straight up in an instant, but I don't see the Pirates being interested in a deal like that. Danks plus cash (and maybe a low level prospect?) for Walker. Then re-sign Buehrle to be the 5th starter if he doesn't go to Cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 23, 2015 -> 09:08 AM) Danks plus cash (and maybe a low level prospect?) for Walker. Then re-sign Buehrle to be the 5th starter if he doesn't go to Cards. The Pirates would never do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 What year is this? Danks for someone of value? Guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 23, 2015 -> 09:14 AM) What year is this? Danks for someone of value? Guys Danks put up a 1.8 WAR last season, valued at $14 million per fangraphs. Apparently he isn't as overpaid as he is made out to be overpaid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Danks was 62 in pitcher WAR, ahead of big park Shields, et al. Teams in big parks should try to buy low on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 23, 2015 -> 10:27 AM) Danks put up a 1.8 WAR last season, valued at $14 million per fangraphs. Apparently he isn't as overpaid as he is made out to be overpaid. Which is an outlier on his entire post-injury career: 0.3, 0.2, 0.5, 1.8 -- 2015 Steamer projection: 0.8 Neil Walker during the same period: 2.7, 2.6, 3.7, 2.4 -- 2016 Steamer projection: 2.6 Walker also makes half the money and they have the same one year of control. Those aren't even REMOTELY equivalent trade assets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Nov 23, 2015 -> 03:11 PM) The Pirates would never do that. and for this discussion. i say they might and for these reasons. 1 yr of a solid pitching, not great but Danks did come on strong. 2. a yr of another pitcher putting up another 180 innings and keeping the team into the game for 3/4 of the games he pitches. 3. pirates needs to move him b/c of the prospect banging on the door to take over 4. salary of what, coming of the books in which they need to keep track on, worst than the sox's. 5. give a $$$ to off set the salary for a 1 yr stop gap. 6. give the impression that they are not giving up but getting a sp who can keep the games interesting. 7. low level prospects.... that is where i am stymied, i am lost here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 23, 2015 -> 09:58 AM) Which is an outlier on his entire post-injury career: 0.3, 0.2, 0.5, 1.8 -- 2015 Steamer projection: 0.8 Neil Walker during the same period: 2.7, 2.6, 3.7, 2.4 -- 2016 Steamer projection: 2.6 Walker also makes half the money and they have the same one year of control. Those aren't even REMOTELY equivalent trade assets. Never mentioned anything about Walker. All I stated was Danks apparently isn't as bad as a lot of people think, if we look at advanced stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 23, 2015 -> 03:58 PM) Which is an outlier on his entire post-injury career: 0.3, 0.2, 0.5, 1.8 -- 2015 Steamer projection: 0.8 Neil Walker during the same period: 2.7, 2.6, 3.7, 2.4 -- 2016 Steamer projection: 2.6 Walker also makes half the money and they have the same one year of control. Those aren't even REMOTELY equivalent trade assets. you make an excellent counter but.... it all depends on the need of the team. do i expect the sox to give up on danks now, no, they need him to get the ball every 4th start or 5th. but if the sox needs waker more of a pressing need, i can see it being done, regardless of whether it make sense or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share Posted November 23, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 23, 2015 -> 10:02 AM) Never mentioned anything about Walker. All I stated was Danks apparently isn't as bad as a lot of people think, if we look at advanced stats. 4.71 ERA, 4.49 FIP, 4.65 xFIP, 6.28 K/9, 2.84 BB/9, averaging 5.9 innings a start. Not exactly good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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