why not go for Brett lawrie?

[Whisox05]

Lawrie plays 2B as well so if we were to acquire him our never ending search for a good 3B shouldn't/wouldn't end

 

Yes I know he plays 2nd as well but the need of a 3rd baseman is now would have him playing there for now.

[Knackattack]

Yes I know he plays 2nd as well but the need of a 3rd baseman is now would have him playing there for now.

I think he is saying that Lawrie would be acquired to be a 3rd baseman as of right now, but if we are suddenly in the hunt come July and a 3rd baseman that can hit falls into our laps.. you get him and move Lawrie to 2nd base

 

[Whisox05]

I think he is saying that Lawrie would be acquired to be a 3rd baseman as of right now, but if we are suddenly in the hunt come July and a 3rd baseman that can hit falls into our laps.. you get him and move Lawrie to 2nd base

 

Yes I know what he is saying and what you are both implying is a hypothetical. How about the reverse hypothetical were you can't find a better 3rd baseman and the Sox traded away Micah and they have Sanchez hitting like crap and need to upgrade him offensively but can't do it within cause they traded the little depth that had now they have to go outside the organization to fI'll it. That's what I'm getting at to not trade the little depth the Sox have for middle infielders

[Knackattack]

Yes I know what he is saying and what you are both implying is a hypothetical. How about the reverse hypothetical were you can't find a better 3rd baseman and the Sox traded away Micah and they have Sanchez hitting like crap and need to upgrade him offensively but can't do it within cause they traded the little depth that had now they have to go outside the organization to fI'll it. That's what I'm getting at to not trade the little depth the Sox have for middle infielders

Oh right I see. Yeah I don't agree with trading Micah and I still think he should be starting at 2b next year if his defensive improves. Carlos is a solid infield backup but his bat will never warrant more than 50 starts a year.

[BlackSox13]

Yes I know what he is saying and what you are both implying is a hypothetical. How about the reverse hypothetical were you can't find a better 3rd baseman and the Sox traded away Micah and they have Sanchez hitting like crap and need to upgrade him offensively but can't do it within cause they traded the little depth that had now they have to go outside the organization to fI'll it. That's what I'm getting at to not trade the little depth the Sox have for middle infielders

One thing to keep in mind and while it doesn't say much, Lawrie is an upgrade at third over what we've seen the last two or three seasons. Another thing is that even if the Sox trade for Lawrie and use Micah to get him, the Sox are still looking for a SS and with Sanchez at 2B, Saladino becomes the utility who can play all three of those positions well. Micah has a nice bat but there's no room in the lineup with the current roster and we all know about his defense. If Micah cannot field 2B, there's nowhere to put him and that makes him very expendable in a potential trade.

 

I'm not saying he will be traded, there are others I'd rather see traded first but I wouldn't hesitate on trading Micah either.

[Whisox05]

One thing to keep in mind and while it doesn't say much, Lawrie is an upgrade at third over what we've seen the last two or three seasons. Another thing is that even if the Sox trade for Lawrie and use Micah to get him, the Sox are still looking for a SS and with Sanchez at 2B, Saladino becomes the utility who can play all three of those positions well. Micah has a nice bat but there's no room in the lineup with the current roster and we all know about his defense. If Micah cannot field 2B, there's nowhere to put him and that makes him very expendable in a potential trade.

 

I'm not saying he will be traded, there are others I'd rather see traded first but I wouldn't hesitate on trading Micah either.

 

Don't think you really want to waste more development of saladino as a utility player at this point until he plays into one. If he isn't having continuous at bats then he probably should be in the minors playing everyday. Also you say if Micah can't field it makes him expendable but if Sanchez can't hit then he should become expendable as well since his really only position is 2nd.

 

[LDF]

Yes I know what he is saying and what you are both implying is a hypothetical. How about the reverse hypothetical were you can't find a better 3rd baseman and the Sox traded away Micah and they have Sanchez hitting like crap and need to upgrade him offensively but can't do it within cause they traded the little depth that had now they have to go outside the organization to fI'll it. That's what I'm getting at to not trade the little depth the Sox have for middle infielders

 

you have an opinion that your think is right.

 

let me reverse this thought process on you. in your scenario, you will need to take in consideration several variables that will need to all happen.

1. you will need to assume TT, replacing Avi will be hitting better than Avi.

2. you will need to assume Lawrie is hitting his weight

3, you will need to assume Laroche is north of 250 avg,

4. you will need to assume the combo of flower and Alex will be hitting north of 230-250.

 

now if sanchez is not hitting, then the sox can deal with a weak bat,

 

now if there is any failure in any of the above 4, the sox will have another season as last yr.

 

it is plain and simple. mj defense is or was horrible. enuf that last yr, with the record they had, they had to fine a replacement.

Edited November 30, 2015 by LDF

[BlackSox13]

Don't think you really want to waste more development of saladino as a utility player at this point until he plays into one. If he isn't having continuous at bats then he probably should be in the minors playing everyday. Also you say if Micah can't field it makes him expendable but if Sanchez can't hit then he should become expendable as well since his really only position is 2nd.

Sanchez is only 23 and great with the glove which is why I'd like to see him continue to play 2B and get at bats to see if his bat improves during the '16 season. Plus, if necessary he can play SS. Saladino is the IF defensive Jack of all trades that every team looks for in a utility/platoon type player but if the Sox decide to roll with Saladino at SS i wont complain. Micah is expendable because he only plays 2B and his lousy there so unless the Sox give him time at DH, I see no point in keeping him if another team is interested in trading for him.

 

 

[Knackattack]

Sanchez is only 23 and great with the glove which is why I'd like to see him continue to play 2B and get at bats to see if his bat improves during the '16 season. Plus, if necessary he can play SS. Saladino is the IF defensive Jack of all trades that every team looks for in a utility/platoon type player but if the Sox decide to roll with Saladino at SS i wont complain. Micah is expendable because he only plays 2B and his lousy there so unless the Sox give him time at DH, I see no point in keeping him if another team is interested in trading for him.

What evidence do we have of Sanchez being able to play SS in a pinch? And Sanchez was abysmal with the bat last year, still grading out as a negative WAR player even with a 4.4 UZR rating... Micah should be given every opportunity to show that he can field 2b at an acceptable level because his bat's upside (not to mention his baserunning) makes his potential much higher than Sanchez'

[TheFutureIsNear]

I think people really need to come to grips that guys like Saladino, Thompson, and probably even Sanchez are all nice guys to have as backups, but aren't going to be good starting caliber players. Maybe Sanchez can be a league average 2B, but even he is probably better off at UTL. The sooner this is accepted the better

[LDF]

I think people really need to come to grips that guys like Saladino, Thompson, and probably even Sanchez are all nice guys to have as backups, but aren't going to be good starting caliber players. Maybe Sanchez can be a league average 2B, but even he is probably better off at UTL. The sooner this is accepted the better

 

and i agree, even this will be an attack on TT faithfuls, but that is the honest truth, he is no better than a 4th of'er who will be expected to play a full season as a regular.... if the sox doesn't find anyone else.

 

sanchez, saladino are ut's as you mention.

 

don't get me wrong, i wish i am wrong in this.

[Whisox05]

you have an opinion that your think is right.

 

let me reverse this thought process on you. in your scenario, you will need to take in consideration several variables that will need to all happen.

1. you will need to assume TT, replacing Avi will be hitting better than Avi.

2. you will need to assume Lawrie is hitting his weight

3, you will need to assume Laroche is north of 250 avg,

4. you will need to assume the combo of flower and Alex will be hitting north of 230-250.

 

now if sanchez is not hitting, then the sox can deal with a weak bat,

 

now if there is any failure in any of the above 4, the sox will have another season as last yr.

 

it is plain and simple. mj defense is or was horrible. enuf that last yr, with the record they had, they had to fine a replacement.

 

 

But then the offense that Sanchez played for the rest of the year also contributes to the Sox record when they were putting up one of the horrible offenses for the year. You keep saying you want a dee gordon when Micah can be that much of a player offensively then sanchez. My whole point of my argument that no one is getting is until either Sanchez or johnson has totally flamed out that I would not trade either of them cause they plain and simple need the depth of them cause neither right now is a perfect candidate to be the 2nd baseman. The both have flaws but need the depth in case one can't cut it to see if the other can.

Edited November 30, 2015 by WhiteSoxLifer

[BlackSox13]

What evidence do we have of Sanchez being able to play SS in a pinch? And Sanchez was abysmal with the bat last year, still grading out as a negative WAR player even with a 4.4 UZR rating... Micah should be given every opportunity to show that he can field 2b at an acceptable level because his bat's upside (not to mention his baserunning) makes his potential much higher than Sanchez'

Here's a link to said evidence.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/register...id=sanche008car

 

Sanchez can play SS in a pinch and the point is that defensively speaking, Sanchez holds more value than Micah due to Sanchez's versatility.

 

As for Sanchez's bat, I've already explained where I'm coming from and why, so I'm not going to repeat.

 

Another hangup I have with Micah are the injuries he's had on and off for two seasons now. That combined with piss poor defense does not warrant much confidence. If the Sox decided to go with Micah at second, that's fine with me, just keep Sanchez close by because he's likely to be needed again at some point.

[LDF]

But then the offense that Sanchez played for the rest of the year also could tributes to the Sox record when they were putting up one of horrible the offenses for the year. You keep saying you want a dee gordon when Micah can be that much of a player offensively then sanchez. My whole point of my argument that no one is getting is until either Sanchez or johnson has totally flamed out that I would not trade either of them cause they plain and simple need the depth of them cause neither right now is a perfect candidate to be the 2nd baseman. The both have flaws but need the depth in case one can't cut it to see if the other can.

 

first bold, i hate to break this to you, but there were other players who contributed to the lousy season that was in 2015. no offense intended. just you would like to know.

 

second bold, micah can be better offensively is not the question, it is the defense. it was the defense that sent him down, it is the defense that will keep him out of the lineup.

 

the question of dee gordon is a wish, and still has nothing to do with mj, sanchez and saladino defense and starting or being kept as a ut.

 

lastly, you are correct on the depth, but for this case, if mj is not on the team for whatever reasoning, then there is L. Garcia, the forgotten player in this discussion.

Edited November 30, 2015 by LDF

[knightni]

Is it possible that Micah could be a decent LF?

[BlackSox13]

Is it possible that Micah could be a decent LF?

I wondered the same thing last year but I believe it was NorthSideSox that pointed out Johnson had surgery on his shoulder and that long throws from the outfield would only put strainon it. IIRC.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Is it possible that Micah could be a decent LF?

 

 

Maybe but not for the Sox. You can't have Eaton and Micah in the same OF

[LDF]

Is it possible that Micah could be a decent LF?

 

i think he had elbow surgery and knee surgery.

 

http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/elbow-...t-micah-johnson

 

i didn't know about the shoulder. but i concern as well the sox FO is his throw from the OF may hurt his elbow again.

[BlackSox13]

i think he had elbow surgery and knee surgery.

 

http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/elbow-...t-micah-johnson

 

i didn't know about the shoulder. but i concern as well the sox FO is his throw from the OF may hurt his elbow again.

My bad, it was his elbow. Thanks for correcting my memory.

[GreenSox]

I think people really need to come to grips that guys like Saladino, Thompson, and probably even Sanchez are all nice guys to have as backups, but aren't going to be good starting caliber players. Maybe Sanchez can be a league average 2B, but even he is probably better off at UTL. The sooner this is accepted the better

Based on what?

Thompson's 800+OPS and impeccable defense when he played?

Sanchez' first year, where he too played excellent defense?

 

And yet somehow we are supposed to believe that Brett Lawrie is a plus player in this league????

 

Bottom line is Sox fans as a group, just like the front office, have zero patience with youth. Zero. They would much rather trade them all in for players who are proven to be mediocre. Thus, in my 48 years of following this team, there have been 5 playoff appearances.

Five in 48.

But we had those veterans and plenty of heroes.

 

So let's go do another Swisher trade for Lawrie.

Edited November 30, 2015 by GreenSox

[LDF]

My bad, it was his elbow. Thanks for correcting my memory.

 

serious, i wasn't trying to, i was just wasn't sure on all his injuries. i believe he had 2 elbow procedures on the same elbow ....

 

but when you mention shoulder, i thought i was wrong.

 

either way.

 

many thanks.

[LDF]

Based on what?

Thompson's 800+OPS and impeccable defense when he played?

Sanchez' first year, where he too played excellent defense?

 

And yet somehow we are supposed to believe that Brett Lawrie is a plus player in this league????

 

Bottom line is Sox fans as a group, just like the front office, have zero patience with youth. Zero. They would much rather trade them all in for players who are proven to be mediocre. Thus, in my 48 years of following this team, there have been 5 playoff appearances.

Five in 48.

But we had those veterans and plenty of heroes.

 

So let's go do another Swisher trade for Lawrie.

 

i will try to defend myself with the same excuse that i think most would use on this site, it all stems from the owners to win now mentality. no patience for the development of prospects and remember KW interview in the late 90's. he was trying to explain how win now is better than developing players. you trade young players for establish so the sox doesn't have to deal with the learning curve.

 

however at this point, the system was sooo screwed up by the ineptitude of the gm and with the blessing of the owner. now the team is in a race to field a team so it doesn't waste the careers of sale , jose a and pitcers like Q and rodon.

 

this race is what may force the org to make some radical corrections.

 

what a total cluster fvvck the sox fo was in the 2000's. i still don't know how they won the world series.

[TheFutureIsNear]

Based on what?

Thompson's 800+OPS and impeccable defense when he played?

Sanchez' first year, where he too played excellent defense?

 

And yet somehow we are supposed to believe that Brett Lawrie is a plus player in this league????

 

Bottom line is Sox fans as a group, just like the front office, have zero patience with youth. Zero. They would much rather trade them all in for players who are proven to be mediocre. Thus, in my 48 years of following this team, there have been 5 playoff appearances.

Five in 48.

But we had those veterans and plenty of heroes.

 

So let's go do another Swisher trade for Lawrie.

 

Because Saladino and Trayce could barely hold their own for the most part in the minors. Expecting them to be capable hitters in the majors after failing to do so in the minors is bordering on stupidity from a player personnel stand point. I'll be pretty shocked if Hahn puts out an opening day roster with either as more than a utility option.

 

Like I said, Sanchez may be able to play 2B and hit enough to not hurt a team, but he's unspectacular at best. He has next to 0 power and his speed isn't an elite tool. Usually doesn't equate to a long MLB career as a regular but we'll see.

[Dick Allen]

Based on what?

Thompson's 800+OPS and impeccable defense when he played?

Sanchez' first year, where he too played excellent defense?

 

And yet somehow we are supposed to believe that Brett Lawrie is a plus player in this league????

 

Bottom line is Sox fans as a group, just like the front office, have zero patience with youth. Zero. They would much rather trade them all in for players who are proven to be mediocre. Thus, in my 48 years of following this team, there have been 5 playoff appearances.

Five in 48.

But we had those veterans and plenty of heroes.

 

So let's go do another Swisher trade for Lawrie.

Sox made the playoffs when they traded for Swisher.

[Bob Sacamano]

Sox made the playoffs when they traded for Swisher.

 

Wow. That's actually true.