why not go for Brett lawrie?

[LDF]

Agreed. The only players that look like they could be realistically available, imo, are Frazier/Lawrie/Prado/Longoria/Plouffe/Sandoval. None of those 3B are worth Q so the idea of trading Q for a 3B becomes pointless. Minny wants to try Sano in LF to likely try and hold on to Plouffe, so it seems. Cinci wants prospects but at what cost to the Sox? If Frazier doesn't cost the Sox any top prospects then I'd be fine with that but I'm thinking Cinci can do better than what he Sox would be willing to offer. I wouldn't touch the contracts of Longoria or Sandoval. That pretty much leaves us with Prado, Lawrie and Valencia.

 

I'm fine with any of those three but there's a few other points worth noting Prado is 32 and earns 11M in '16 with 3M being paid by the Yanks and is a FA after '16. Valencia comes with two years of control but is already 31. Lawrie is going to be 26 in January, comes with two years of control and due to his youth/lack of boras for an agent presents the Sox with a core type player and potential log term solution to a position that has been dormant since Creedy.

 

The more I think about it, the more sense trading for Lawrie makes. He won't cost top prospects and the A's just might be interested in a player like Micah to play 2B. f*** t, I'm all for Lawrie.

 

 

Agreed with all of this. At 26, its very much possible Lawrie can turn it around and imo, become a potential long term solution at 3B. His age fits the "core" mold the Sox are looking for at a position the Sox desperately need help at.

 

Like the Sox, I'm in no hurry to trade Q and it sure seems to me like there aren't any available 3B worth trading Q for anyway. The pickings are slim for 3B and beggers can't be choosers.

 

fitting in at what the sox needs and at a price that they can live with. to me that is Lawrie and Valencia. even valencia for 2 yrs is a good options until something can be looked into for further help. even a possible long term deal is or would be ok. Lawrie and Valencia are nice. too bad the sox can't get both.

 

now, i still like to put in a call to Cincy to see what Frazier would call.

[BlackSox13]

fitting in at what the sox needs and at a price that they can live with. to me that is Lawrie and Valencia. even valencia for 2 yrs is a good options until something can be looked into for further help. even a possible long term deal is or would be ok. Lawrie and Valencia are nice. too bad the sox can't get both.

 

now, i still like to put in a call to Cincy to see what Frazier would call.

I know Frazier had a bad second half in '16 but his over all numbers are still pretty impressive. I think the cost would be pretty high and would put quite a dent in the Sox farm. Imo, I steer clear of Frazier for that reason.

 

Imo, Lawrie makes the most sense. Should be interesting to see if he's traded and where he goes.

[LDF]

I know Frazier had a bad second half in '16 but his over all numbers are still pretty impressive. I think the cost would be pretty high and would put quite a dent in the Sox farm. Imo, I steer clear of Frazier for that reason.

 

Imo, Lawrie makes the most sense. Should be interesting to see if he's traded and where he goes.

 

and that is the crux of the whole discussion. what is the cost, if it is too much skip him and go for the next plausible choice.

 

i am just wondering on the 2nd wave of non tendered. am i correct of that??? another time when another group of players have a non tendered/fa coming up??

 

but the problem i am having now is, the sox better make some major moves now, before some of the great deals mention here on this board is gone.

 

speaking of which , Evan Gattis, Daniel Nava, for a spare of/dh would be a great pickup and sp A.J. Griffin can help until 2017 when the other prospects will be able to step in. my problem with Griiffin is, he has a habit of giving up home runs .... but still he is still an interesting pitcher.

 

[Bigsoxhurt35]

For s***s and giggles on MLB the show, I traded for Lawrie and CarGo. Kept Saladino at SS. Traded LaRoche and moved Melky to DH. Not my ideal offseason but did it out of boredom

Edited November 27, 2015 by SouthSideSale

[BlackSox13]

and that is the crux of the whole discussion. what is the cost, if it is too much skip him and go for the next plausible choice.

 

i am just wondering on the 2nd wave of non tendered. am i correct of that??? another time when another group of players have a non tendered/fa coming up??

 

but the problem i am having now is, the sox better make some major moves now, before some of the great deals mention here on this board is gone.

 

speaking of which , Evan Gattis, Daniel Nava, for a spare of/dh would be a great pickup and sp A.J. Griffin can help until 2017 when the other prospects will be able to step in. my problem with Griiffin is, he has a habit of giving up home runs .... but still he is still an interesting pitcher.

Just my opinion but I don't think Frazier has been much of an option given that he will cost quality prospects and the Sox need to keep what quality they have. It's going to take better talent than the likes of Beck, Danish, Micah etc.

 

Sorry but Nava is useless to the Sox to be honest. He's not even got garbage. Has no power, can't hit, going on 33 and the Sox already have plenty of outfielders and should-be 1B/DH types.

 

Gattis would be nice but we have no room for him as long as LaRoche is in the lineup. Now if the Sox could trade LaRoche or use him as a bench bat that might work but even then, Gattis hits right handed pitching better than left so the Sox couldn't use the two of them as platoon partners.

 

Griffin. I didn't know this before but dude is rehabing from a third ucl tear and he's only 27. Yikes. I suggested last week the Sox take a look but Dick Allen made some good points and I've changed my mind since, especially after reading about 3 ucl tears.

Edited November 27, 2015 by BlackSox13

[SCCWS]

Here's a list of the top 20 at 3B.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/position/3b/sort/OPS

 

How many of these 3B are really available for trade and how many of them are worthy of Q?

 

I'm liking the idea of Lawrie more and more.

 

I would explore Longoria + for Q +. Sox need a big bat before or after Abreu, preferably LH, but I would consider this if I was Hahn.

 

[LDF]

name='BlackSox13' date='Nov 27, 2015 -> 11:58 AM'

Just my opinion but I don't think Frazier has been much of an option given that he will cost quality prospects and the Sox need to keep what quality they have. It's going to take better talent than the likes of Beck, Danish, Micah etc.

 

yeah i totally agree, but i will not give up A+ prospects but some level 2 tier pitching prospect with an future of'er. he will be a great pickup and if they can, sign him to a longer term contract. but that was me thinking.

 

Sorry but Nava is useless to the Sox to be honest. He's not even got garbage. Has no power, can't hit, going on 33 and the Sox already have plenty of outfielders and should-be 1B/DH types.

 

and that is what i am looking at .... a platoon hitting dh / 1b and of'er. 2nd to shuck. plus he does have a nice pop to his hitting if use popularly.

 

Gattis would be nice but we have no room for him as long as LaRoche is in the lineup. Now if the Sox could trade LaRoche or use him as a bench bat that might work but even then, Gattis hits right handed pitching better than left so the Sox couldn't use the two of them as platoon partners.

 

yeah but if they traded with hou, he contract will be nice. going into his 1st arb yr ... second, platoon him with laroche and or nava. he can be a long term player for the dh / 1b / 3b / and if necessary cat. btw, the other part is whether laroche can rebound.

 

Griffin. I didn't know this before but dude is rehabing from a third ucl tear and he's only 27. Yikes. I suggested last week the Sox take a look but Dick Allen made some good points and I've changed my mind since, especially after reading about 3 ucl tears.

 

yeah i can agree. i wasn't too sure about the 2 tjs i only thought he had 1. but what is the cost.... an invite to spring training. so what is the upside, a sp wh has had success in the bigs last yr. but man .... those home runs.

[GreenSox]

Yea but the whole problem with Micah and many Sox is that we can't really count on him defensively. The pitchers need to know that every effort is going to be made to get better defense behind them while they incrementally build the offense. Maximize the pitching by preventing runs while also trying to build up an offense that isn't defensively challenged.

 

The Sox are never going to get any offense in here if they don't let the players who can hit play. I realize that Cooper demanded that his pitchers be protected, but the Sox didn't get any better as a team when they jettisoned Micah. I like Sanchez and both should be getting ML at bats. Creative management finds a way to get him in there. And while they did that, they put the most abhorrent outfield defense imaginable out there. And the bullpen was nothing better than mediocre. (and, of course, Montas, who could help there, is on everyone's trade list).

 

Then people want to start trading young players for rapidly declining veterans like Longoria and to buy high for 2 years of a fraud like Todd Frazier (does anyone check his OBP, splits or OPS from the last half of the season?).

 

The foundation simply isn't there. You can't holes with a decliner or 2 when there are weaknesses across the roster. it doesn't work. Why repeat failed prescriptions?

Edited November 27, 2015 by GreenSox

[spiderman]

Because he's not very good and will cost a legitimate prospect like Micah. And Oakland will do with Micah what Don Ventura will not do: play him and watch him hit.

 

And I'm sick of deals with Oakland. They never turn out well.

 

If Micah can hit and his healthy, and we know this White Sox line cannot, he has to make the team and be in the lineup, whether it's 2B or DH 4 times a week.

[spiderman]

I would explore Longoria + for Q +. Sox need a big bat before or after Abreu, preferably LH, but I would consider this if I was Hahn.

 

Is Longoria still in his prime or declining? He's definitely durable, but is now 30 years old. However, if he does 3-4 more good years left in him, that's the kind of move the Sox need - a middle of the order hitter.

[TheFutureIsNear]

Lawrie the more likely to be traded according to mlbtraderumors....

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/11/bret...ncia-trade.html

 

I might be willing to gamble on an improvement from the only 25 Lawrie, but at what price? That's the part im not sure about, or what the A's want. I guess EJ would be a likely candidate, but I'm not sure EJ doesn't have a brighter future honestly.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I'd do like Beck or something. I wouldn't give up EJ for him

 

Edit: he is still only 26. There's still some hope he has a JD Martinez improvement for us albeit small.

Edited November 27, 2015 by SouthSideSale

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

If the Sox can get Longoria without giving up Sale, Q, or Rodon, I'd be all for it.

 

 

[Bigsoxhurt35]

If the Sox can get Longoria without giving up Sale, Q, or Rodon, I'd be all for it.

I'm not sure he's available but I'm sure they'd want Anderson to start the deal.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

I'm not sure he's available but I'm sure they'd want Anderson to start the deal.

I'm probably in the minority, but I'd give up Anderson + Adams/Danish/etc for Longo.

 

Then I'd sign Ian Desmond to play short.

[BlackSox13]

I would explore Longoria + for Q +. Sox need a big bat before or after Abreu, preferably LH, but I would consider this if I was Hahn.

That big bat comes with a contract that escalates as he ages. It's been written about how he isn't hitting the ball as far as he used to and how the decline in exit velocity of the ball off his bat correlates with that.

 

For those interested in his contract.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...shtml#contracts

 

Interesting articles from this year outlining his decrease in power.

 

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/mlb-evan...-power-decline/

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseba...ng-rays-offense

 

http://isportsweb.com/2015/08/13/tampa-bay...-evan-longoria/

 

No chance I give up Q in any trade for Longoria. The Rays can keep him and his escalating contract while he continues his decline. That contract has disaster written all over it.

[BlackSox13]

name='BlackSox13' date='Nov 27, 2015 -> 11:58 AM'

Just my opinion but I don't think Frazier has been much of an option given that he will cost quality prospects and the Sox need to keep what quality they have. It's going to take better talent than the likes of Beck, Danish, Micah etc.

 

yeah i totally agree, but i will not give up A+ prospects but some level 2 tier pitching prospect with an future of'er. he will be a great pickup and if they can, sign him to a longer term contract. but that was me thinking.

 

Sorry but Nava is useless to the Sox to be honest. He's not even got garbage. Has no power, can't hit, going on 33 and the Sox already have plenty of outfielders and should-be 1B/DH types.

 

and that is what i am looking at .... a platoon hitting dh / 1b and of'er. 2nd to shuck. plus he does have a nice pop to his hitting if use popularly.

 

Gattis would be nice but we have no room for him as long as LaRoche is in the lineup. Now if the Sox could trade LaRoche or use him as a bench bat that might work but even then, Gattis hits right handed pitching better than left so the Sox couldn't use the two of them as platoon partners.

 

yeah but if they traded with hou, he contract will be nice. going into his 1st arb yr ... second, platoon him with laroche and or nava. he can be a long term player for the dh / 1b / 3b / and if necessary cat. btw, the other part is whether laroche can rebound.

 

Griffin. I didn't know this before but dude is rehabing from a third ucl tear and he's only 27. Yikes. I suggested last week the Sox take a look but Dick Allen made some good points and I've changed my mind since, especially after reading about 3 ucl tears.

 

yeah i can agree. i wasn't too sure about the 2 tjs i only thought he had 1. but what is the cost.... an invite to spring training. so what is the upside, a sp wh has had success in the bigs last yr. but man .... those home runs.

Nava: I would honestly rather have Avi as a platoon partner instead of Nava. Nava is just not good.

 

Gattis: would really like to have him as a DH or even trying to turn him into a 1B but there's no way he should be playing the outfield. He's worse than Melky, lol. Again, with LaRoche being pretty un-tradable, he will be facing RHP in '16 which leaves no room for Gattis.

 

Frazier: imo, the fact that he'll be 30 in February combined with his second half collapse could be a sign of a decline in the works. I still think some team will end giving up some pretty good talent for him, I just hope that team isn't the White Sox.

 

At least with the 25 year old Lawrie there's still potential for upside so I'll continue to hope the SOX can work something out with Oakland. Just my preference is all.

Edited November 27, 2015 by BlackSox13

[GreenSox]

I'm probably in the minority, but I'd give up Anderson + Adams/Danish/etc for Longo.

 

Then I'd sign Ian Desmond to play short.

Hero worship 101. Longoria and Desmond may improve the team 6 games. Maybe.

Longoria for the last 2 years has had an OPS in the .700s.

And the coup de grace you have a contractual obligation of over 100 million over 7 years.

 

Honestly, if that is a fair trade, what could we get for Q who is younger, cheaper, and BETTER. 5 top 100 prospects?

Edited November 27, 2015 by GreenSox

[Knackattack]

You know I'm thinking a route I haven't seen on the thread yet: Brett Lawrie for Avisail Garcia. Both teams swap young, cheap, underperforming players.

[SCCWS]

That big bat comes with a contract that escalates as he ages. It's been written about how he isn't hitting the ball as far as he used to and how the decline in exit velocity of the ball off his bat correlates with that.

 

For those interested in his contract.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...shtml#contracts

 

Interesting articles from this year outlining his decrease in power.

 

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/mlb-evan...-power-decline/

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseba...ng-rays-offense

 

http://isportsweb.com/2015/08/13/tampa-bay...-evan-longoria/

 

No chance I give up Q in any trade for Longoria. The Rays can keep him and his escalating contract while he continues his decline. That contract has disaster written all over it.

 

 

Major flaw in the article regarding diminished power. The Rays traded away Myers and Zobrist so now Longoria gets pitched around. Hell, Abreu 's power numbers dropped with LaRoche instead of Dunn protecting him. Maybe putting Longoria and Abreu 3/34 would help both of them. But the contract does bother me. maybe that could be re-worked for a change of scenery.

[Bob Sacamano]

You know I'm thinking a route I haven't seen on the thread yet: Brett Lawrie for Avisail Garcia. Both teams swap young, cheap, underperforming players.

 

We would need to add a piece or two.

[GreenSox]

We would need to add a piece or two.

They usually do. They fixate on a player, get all ga ga.

 

But how about the Sox actually get a paper premium on a trade. The bottom line is that Lawrie hasn't done squat. He was a .6 WAR last year He's still young and could improve. Avi was worse, but you can't trade much for Lawrie and certainly no real prospect.

Edited November 27, 2015 by GreenSox

[Bob Sacamano]

They usually do. They fixate on a player, get all ga ga.

 

But how about the Sox actually get a paper premium on a trade. The bottom line is that Lawrie hasn't done squat. He was a .6 WAR last year He's still young and could improve. Avi was worse, but you can't trade much for Lawrie and certainly no real prospect.

 

I don't think it'd take much but more than just Avi.

[BlackSox13]

Major flaw in the article regarding diminished power. The Rays traded away Myers and Zobrist so now Longoria gets pitched around. Hell, Abreu 's power numbers dropped with LaRoche instead of Dunn protecting him. Maybe putting Longoria and Abreu 3/34 would help both of them. But the contract does bother me. maybe that could be re-worked for a change of scenery.

Trading away Myers and Zobrist do not explain the lower exit velocity of the ball off of Longoria's that results in fly balls not traveling as far as they used to. Those trades also do not explain how Longoria is not able to get to inside pitches as well as he used to. Given his age, he appears to be on the decline while his contract escalates. Just a guess but I'd say playing 81 games a year at 3B on astro turf at Tropican Field has begun taking a toll on his body.

 

Too much risk involved with Longoria.

[BlackSox13]

I don't think it'd take much but more than just Avi.

Avi's value is pretty low but I can see a team like Oakland having some interest in him given his age and under team control for four more years. With the Sox pitching up and coming I think Beck is very expendable so maybe pairing Avi with Beck in a trade for Lawrie could work.