YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 06:01 PM) As long as the Sox keep doing a good job of scouting and developing pitching, I could honestly care less. Let em both go to FA and cash in, as long as its another team paying the obscene price. You make it sound like replacing Sale and Q would be easy. Those guys are 2 of the best pitchers in the AL. I don't disagree that the Sox are good at developing pitching, but it's not like they'll find another Sale or Q off of the scrap heap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Per Crashnick: "Sources say Greinke is looking for a 5 or 6 yr deal. He wants AAV above Price. That means $31.5M or $32M a year." Sweet jeebus! Supposedly down to the Giants and Dodgers. I'm guessing the Giants are trying to drive the price up on the Dodgers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 07:03 PM) The Sox have to open the pocket book and sign Heyward. Our pitching is cheap for the rest of the decade. Spend some dough on some premium bats. Heyward is the least risky FA signing one can get just based on his age. Gotta spend some dough and compete or Abreu is gonna opt out and walk. It's not like we're in a thread about a case clearly showing as obvious as could be how terrible of a deal you're getting for top level FAs any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 06:08 PM) You make it sound like replacing Sale and Q would be easy. Those guys are 2 of the best pitchers in the AL. I don't disagree that the Sox are good at developing pitching, but it's not like they'll find another Sale or Q off of the scrap heap. If the Sox continue to scout/draft/develop pitching they won't have to fall back on the scrap heap. Assuming options on both pitchers will be picked up, Sale will be 30 and Q 31 when they hit FA. Now, given what we've seen pitchers in that age range get this year, imagine what the prices will be like when Sale and Q are free agents. Assuming they stay healthy and continue to pitch well, they will get paid huge. I'm not too eager to pay 35-40M per year for a pitcher, I don't care what the name on the back of their jersey says. Maybe the Sox have the right idea after all by prioritizing pitching when it comes to drafting. Maybe they have foreseen the direction of the pitching market and know just how valuable young cost effective pitching is. I think Atlanta sees it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 06:19 PM) It's not like we're in a thread about a case clearly showing as obvious as could be how terrible of a deal you're getting for top level FAs any more. Haha well played. I think Heyward is a little different though, and hopefully the FO sees it that way, just because of his age. He's not over 30 so there's gotta be something to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 06:19 PM) It's not like we're in a thread about a case clearly showing as obvious as could be how terrible of a deal you're getting for top level FAs any more. Lol, no s***. Not like the Sox don't have holes to fill on the infield either. Sure, let's spend all available funds on one player and still suck next year. But hey, at least we will have something to b**** about. Edited December 2, 2015 by BlackSox13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Infield, C, OF, bench, bullpen, overall depth. Ton of holes to fill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 06:27 PM) Haha well played. I think Heyward is a little different though, and hopefully the FO sees it that way, just because of his age. He's not over 30 so there's gotta be something to that. Can also offer opt-out clauses after years 4, 5, and 6 as well. We'd get lucky and we wouldn't have to pay for his later years (not that he would even be that old on let's say an 8 year deal). Edited December 2, 2015 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saufley Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 05:36 PM) Like others have said, this deal makes Sale & Quintana's trade value sky rocket. They are not trading either of them. If their trade value will sky rocket, why not trade Q? See what teams are willing to overpay for him in a deal. I believe this would be the time to sell high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 QUOTE (Saufley @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 06:37 PM) If their trade value will sky rocket, why not trade Q? See what teams are willing to overpay for him in a deal. I believe this would be the time to sell high. I agree. Obviously there's no gun to their head....it's not like Quintana will be a free agent after next season. Should be an interesting next 9 days for a ton of teams, including the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 QUOTE (Saufley @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 07:37 PM) If their trade value will sky rocket, why not trade Q? See what teams are willing to overpay for him in a deal. I believe this would be the time to sell high. Because the end result could be be "The White Sox can't get fair value in a trade from moving Quintana because teams are willing to risk money on players, but they're not willing to give up multiple of their own players for a guy for the same reason we're not willing to move Q". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 06:03 PM) The Sox have to open the pocket book and sign Heyward. Our pitching is cheap for the rest of the decade. Spend some dough on some premium bats. Heyward is the least risky FA signing one can get just based on his age. Gotta spend some dough and compete or Abreu is gonna opt out and walk. Abreu can't opt out. He can only opt in to arbitration. The Sox control him in years 4-6 regardless of what he chooses to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 05:36 PM) Like others have said, this deal makes Sale & Quintana's trade value sky rocket. They are not trading either of them. Wait, let's examine this. Their value is sky high........so we're not going to trade them? I hope Hahn is willing to examine any possibility, every scenario, for improving this ballclub. If someone wants to overpay you hand either over immediately. And before the inevitable, " we'll never receive fair value," you base every trade proposal independent of others. What will we receive? How many of our holes are filled? This is why us hardcore fans are the best and worst for trade scenarios. We understand our ballclub more than anyone else, but we're so blinded by fan loyalty and our own biases that we can't remove ourselves and make an impartial evaluation of this team. Unless there's a substantial and unexpected offensive upgrade across the entire team, we won't compete. Now, how can we improve that? Platooning Avila and Flowers is only a small step. Granted, there's time to upgrade and I'm not critizing Hahn (yet) but he's not going to build a playoff team based on FA. Someone needs to go, and more than likely, it's going to be Quintana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpd9189 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Few things. -Price can opt out after 3 years so if he pitches well, he's most likely going to cash in again. Overall it's not a bad deal and it makes the Red Sox better instantly. -Once rumors started last week that Boston "was not going to be outbid" for Price, it was clear where Price was going. -No one on the Sox should be untradeable right now unless you like watching a 69-75 win team every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 06:19 PM) It's not like we're in a thread about a case clearly showing as obvious as could be how terrible of a deal you're getting for top level FAs any more. I'm not advocating for signing Heyward (too many holes to put it all on one player), but free agents are usually terrible deals because you're getting them after their prime years are over, so there's a lot more risk and you're paying a lot for their declining years. This would not be the case with Heyward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 QUOTE (dpd9189 @ Dec 2, 2015 -> 01:58 AM) Few things. -Price can opt out after 3 years so if he pitches well, he's most likely going to cash in again. Overall it's not a bad deal and it makes the Red Sox better instantly. -Once rumors started last week that Boston "was not going to be outbid" for Price, it was clear where Price was going. -No one on the Sox should be untradeable right now unless you like watching a 69-75 win team every year. i will admit i was wrong, i really thought it was a smoke screen. for what??? i do not know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Interesting that beginning the day he was thinking he was going to STL for 7/185. Dombrowski is going for it as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 2, 2015 -> 02:12 AM) I'm not advocating for signing Heyward (too many holes to put it all on one player), but free agents are usually terrible deals because you're getting them after their prime years are over, so there's a lot more risk and you're paying a lot for their declining years. This would not be the case with Heyward. i agree about the holes. but signing a heyward, it would be a great pr move and on the level to compete in the chi market during baseball time.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Dec 2, 2015 -> 02:18 AM) Interesting that beginning the day he was thinking he was going to STL for 7/185. Dombrowski is going for it as usual. yeah i agree . i was thinking of stl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Dec 2, 2015 -> 01:49 AM) Wait, let's examine this. Their value is sky high........so we're not going to trade them? I hope Hahn is willing to examine any possibility, every scenario, for improving this ballclub. If someone wants to overpay you hand either over immediately. And before the inevitable, " we'll never receive fair value," you base every trade proposal independent of others. What will we receive? How many of our holes are filled? This is why us hardcore fans are the best and worst for trade scenarios. We understand our ballclub more than anyone else, but we're so blinded by fan loyalty and our own biases that we can't remove ourselves and make an impartial evaluation of this team. Unless there's a substantial and unexpected offensive upgrade across the entire team, we won't compete. Now, how can we improve that? Platooning Avila and Flowers is only a small step. Granted, there's time to upgrade and I'm not critizing Hahn (yet) but he's not going to build a playoff team based on FA. Someone needs to go, and more than likely, it's going to be Quintana. the best case is to move a sp for those pieces to fix the team. esp in getting the rtn of some young pitchers as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Heyward alone isn't the answer but it sure helps. Heyward, Eaton & Trayce out there and suddenly, somehow, we have one of the premier defensive outfields. Melky moves to DH/platoons with Trayce against tough righties. LaSuck can still get a few hundred ABs. Still need some power so maybe that's where we gut the farm/trade Q for an absolute stud IF like Arenado. Suck it up and replace Q's innings somehow I dunno- mid tier FA? Gotta spend some dough to do anything positive it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Eaton Heyward Abreu Arenado Melky TFT Avila Sanchez Saladino Bench-Flowers, MJ, LaSuck, Shuck Rotation- Sale, Rodon, Johnson, Danks, Lackey? I dunno, this rotation could be pretty bad without Q. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 09:14 PM) Eaton Heyward Abreu Arenado Melky TFT Avila Sanchez Saladino Bench-Flowers, MJ, LaSuck, Shuck Rotation- Sale, Rodon, Johnson, Danks, Lackey? I dunno, this rotation could be pretty bad without Q. Honesty with that lineup I think the Sox would lose more games then they did this year. If the Sox want to truly contend in 2016 then sanchez, Saladino and Trayce should only be seen in small doses in playing time. If the Sox were rebuilding then throw those guys out there to see what they are. They all can play some very good defense but offensively that would really bring down the team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 09:14 PM) Eaton Heyward Abreu Arenado Melky TFT Avila Sanchez Saladino Bench-Flowers, MJ, LaSuck, Shuck Rotation- Sale, Rodon, Johnson, Danks, Lackey? I dunno, this rotation could be pretty bad without Q. Besides Q, who else would need to be sent to the Rockies for Arenado? Montas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 09:14 PM) Eaton Heyward Abreu Arenado Melky TFT Avila Sanchez Saladino Bench-Flowers, MJ, LaSuck, Shuck Rotation- Sale, Rodon, Johnson, Danks, Lackey? I dunno, this rotation could be pretty bad without Q. Lackey has draft pick compensation attached to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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