Religion and Gun Attacks

[greg775]

This...does not sound wise.

 

Gun rights groups to stage mock mass shooting at UT

This has to be the worst idea ever. If somebody brings a real gun ... WOW.

[jasonxctf]

This has to be the worst idea ever. If somebody brings a real gun ... WOW.

 

Texas do something unwise. ?

[Texsox]

Go visit a school and watch their Christmas, I mean Winter Season, play. They have colleges with Diversity Departments warning people that even a Christmas tree would be bad form and not 'inclusive'.

 

We have a Christmas themed display. Complete with tree and other symbolic items.

[Texsox]

It's crazy how much better this world would be without religion. Sheep gonna sheep

 

It would be easy to dismiss any activity that is broadly popular with this logic.

 

What you also miss are all the good deeds that happen because people are bound by a set of beliefs. Food pantries, homeless shelters, clothing drives, etc. The charitable works of religious groups are a huge part of the social safety net in our country. Name a secular agency that is involved in basic human services that are larger than religious groups? I agree we could do without the violent extremist in some religious groups, making a statement that the world would be better off without religion dismisses the good deeds that are done in the name of religion.

[StrangeSox]

United way is the largest charity in the country

[Jerksticks]

It would be easy to dismiss any activity that is broadly popular with this logic.

 

What you also miss are all the good deeds that happen because people are bound by a set of beliefs. Food pantries, homeless shelters, clothing drives, etc. The charitable works of religious groups are a huge part of the social safety net in our country. Name a secular agency that is involved in basic human services that are larger than religious groups? I agree we could do without the violent extremist in some religious groups, making a statement that the world would be better off without religion dismisses the good deeds that are done in the name of religion.

 

For sure man. One of the most popular things people love to say is "look at all the wars caused by religion" or "look at all those priests raping little boys" or "look at all the people suffering in the world". People just miss the point that MEN are responsible for such horrible things, not religion. MAN can be greedy and do awful things in the name of anything. But sheep will be sheep and pretend to know it all.

[farmteam]

It would be easy to dismiss any activity that is broadly popular with this logic.

 

What you also miss are all the good deeds that happen because people are bound by a set of beliefs. Food pantries, homeless shelters, clothing drives, etc. The charitable works of religious groups are a huge part of the social safety net in our country. Name a secular agency that is involved in basic human services that are larger than religious groups? I agree we could do without the violent extremist in some religious groups, making a statement that the world would be better off without religion dismisses the good deeds that are done in the name of religion.

Anyone who thinks that getting rid of religion would magically solve the world's problems should watch the Otter King episode of South Park.

[greg775]

We have a Christmas themed display. Complete with tree and other symbolic items.

Cool. This comes with the Greg seal of approval.

[Texsox]

United way is the largest charity in the country

 

And they support religious organizations because they find them valuable.

 

You are aware that the United Way is just a fundraising organization that in turn sends donations to local agencies? They were created by several groups, including the Boy Scouts, to keep competing groups from fundraising at the same time.

 

Here is a link to an atheist group that suggests not supporting the United Way because they support religious organizations. http://www.msatheists.org/2009/11/before-y...united-way.html you can find others.

 

And from their wiki

 

The organization has roots in Denver, Colorado, where in 1887 church leaders began the Charity Organization Society, which coordinated services and fundraising for 22 agencies.[2] Many Community Chest organizations, which were founded in the first half of the twentieth century to jointly collect and allocate money, joined the American Association for Community Organizations in 1918. The first Community Chest was founded in 1913 in Cleveland, Ohio,[3] after the example of the Jewish Federation in Cleveland—which served as an exemplary model for "federated giving". The number of Community Chest organizations increased from 39 to 353 between 1919 and 1929, and surpassed 1,000 by 1948. In 1948, Walter C. Laidlaw merged the Community Chest and other Detroit charities to form the United Foundation.

 

Again, dismissing religious as bad and not recognizing the good leaves out a lot.

[cabiness42]

As a theist, I believe both of these things:

 

1) Satan uses religion to spread bad words and deeds all over the world, and would be less successful in doing so without religion

2) God uses religion to spread good words and deeds all over the world, and would be less successful in doing so without religion

[StrangeSox]

And they support religious organizations because they find them valuable.

 

You are aware that the United Way is just a fundraising organization that in turn sends donations to local agencies? They were created by several groups, including the Boy Scouts, to keep competing groups from fundraising at the same time.

 

Here is a link to an atheist group that suggests not supporting the United Way because they support religious organizations. http://www.msatheists.org/2009/11/before-y...united-way.html you can find others.

 

And from their wiki

 

 

 

Again, dismissing religious as bad and not recognizing the good leaves out a lot.

I'm not dismissing religion or religious charities but there's an awful lot of secular charity out there that you seem to be discounting.

[Texsox]

I'm not dismissing religion or religious charities but there's an awful lot of secular charity out there that you seem to be discounting.

 

I'm sorry it came off that way. You are correct, there are a lot of secular charities. And some very large ones. Great examples would be the NRA, Cancer Society, environmental groups, Planned Parenthood, etc. But for general aid to individuals and families, religious groups are #1.

[NorthSideSox72]

I'm sorry it came off that way. You are correct, there are a lot of secular charities. And some very large ones. Great examples would be the NRA, Cancer Society, environmental groups, Planned Parenthood, etc. But for general aid to individuals and families, religious groups are #1.

I wouldn't call NRA, PP or even some Environmental groups "charities". They are special interest organizations (NRA and, again, some env groups), or non-profit businesses (PP). The environmental groups are an odd bunch though, as some (Sierra Club chiefly) are almost full-on lobbying organizations, where as others (i.e. Nature Conservancy) are more properly non-profit businesses or charities.

 

[Texsox]

I wouldn't call NRA, PP or even some Environmental groups "charities". They are special interest organizations (NRA and, again, some env groups), or non-profit businesses (PP). The environmental groups are an odd bunch though, as some (Sierra Club chiefly) are almost full-on lobbying organizations, where as others (i.e. Nature Conservancy) are more properly non-profit businesses or charities.

 

DuH. I should stop posting with half my brain engaged. You are correct. Which I guess may be even more of a nod to religion as supporting most charities.

[StrangeSox]

PP provides a lot of free or severely discounted health care.

[NorthSideSox72]

PP provides a lot of free or severely discounted health care.

Doesn't make them a charity, at least my definition. Which is an interesting discussion itself - what constitutes a charity?

 

[Texsox]

Doesn't make them a charity, at least my definition. Which is an interesting discussion itself - what constitutes a charity?

 

I agree with StrangeSox that part of PP feels like a charity to me because they are providing direct aid to needy people. Food, medical care, clothing, shelter to needy people seem like charitable works. Lobbying, research, public opinion ads, does not.

[Jerksticks]

And all the selfless amazing work they do with orphans and homeless people. All the free counseling to battered women, the bereved, and the terminally ill. Countless people around the world, with their own version of God, devote their entire lives to the service of others, asking nothing in return. It's incredible but it doesn't make you sound smart at a party. So ironic that a person claiming to be smart could scoff at the message of God, which is to selflessly help as many people as you possibly can. "But religion starts wars!!" So smart. The human race thanks you for your opinion ?

[Texsox]

And all the selfless amazing work they do with orphans and homeless people. All the free counseling to battered women, the bereved, and the terminally ill. Countless people around the world, with their own version of God, devote their entire lives to the service of others, asking nothing in return. It's incredible but it doesn't make you sound smart at a party. So ironic that a person claiming to be smart could scoff at the message of God, which is to selflessly help as many people as you possibly can. "But religion starts wars!!" So smart. The human race thanks you for your opinion ?

 

What I try to do is separate the works from the theology. I certainly can understand people questioning or rejecting the theology, but the works that are done are concrete. If fairness all the actions, good and bad need to be accounted for before declaring something good or evil. I believe religion has been a useful concept in our society. Plus religion doesn't kill people, people kill people.

[Jerksticks]

What I try to do is separate the works from the theology. I certainly can understand people questioning or rejecting the theology, but the works that are done are concrete. If fairness all the actions, good and bad need to be accounted for before declaring something good or evil. I believe religion has been a useful concept in our society. Plus religion doesn't kill people, people kill people.

For sure! I think people make the mistake of thinking religion has to do with a group of people when in fact, if one reads any of the famous literature, it's all about a personal commitment to do the next right thing- nothing more really. Some people twist that, some people organize into groups to discuss that, some people organize into groups to twist that. But the true message, let's use Christianity, is not to believe somebody died for your sins because that's meaningless. It's to emulate the way he lived which is unarguably the greatest way a human can live. I say unarguably because after I took a class on the gospel in college to fill a gen-ed, i actually found it impossible to disagree with anything the man says in those four books. Like my heart wouldn't let me.

 

I guess it made me appreciate the selfless things the truly dedicated people do in this world to help others. No way I can bash that I guess. I feel like people bash it because they haven't taken the few days to read it. If you read it, it's hard not to get something positive out of it. Amazing that people used to burn people at the stake in the name of God. Nice one there freaks.

[StrangeSox]

The potential downside of having heavily religious charities is that some of them will pull garbage like this:

Kentucky shelter tosses out all women days before holidays because they tempt men with ‘ungodly’ sex

[Jenksismyhero]

The potential downside of having heavily religious charities is that some of them will pull garbage like this:

Kentucky shelter tosses out all women days before holidays because they tempt men with ‘ungodly’ sex

 

Because he didn't want to run a charitable whore house?

[StrangeSox]

Goddamn women and their whorin', temptin' ways!!!

 

(Psst! It takes TWO people to have sex! And you look like a giant asshole when you blame only the women and throw them out of shelters!)

[Jenksismyhero]

Goddamn women and their whorin', temptin' ways!!!

 

(Psst! It takes TWO people to have sex! And you look like a giant asshole when you blame only the women and throw them out of shelters!)

 

I suppose, but it sounds like an actual sex problem more than a temptation problem. The problem is more easily solved by getting rid of one sex. I agree it's pretty s***ty to throw out women, but it's charity, can't really b**** about getting something for nothing.

 

edit: and it sounds like from this story it was more about numbers than sex:

 

Woodward said they have more men than women at the shelter, so he decided to send the women to a female-only facility nearly 30 minutes away.

 

Seems reasonable to me.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Jenksismybitch

[EvilMonkey]

I suppose, but it sounds like an actual sex problem more than a temptation problem. The problem is more easily solved by getting rid of one sex. I agree it's pretty s***ty to throw out women, but it's charity, can't really b**** about getting something for nothing.

 

edit: and it sounds like from this story it was more about numbers than sex:

 

 

 

Seems reasonable to me.

Shhhhh. Don't ruin the narrative. Evil religious person wages war on women! Blame Republicans and Tea party!