Why Not Go For It?

[Dunt]

I know everyone wants to model the franchise after the Astros, Royals, and Cubs now, but honestly, with the core they have in Sale, Abreu, Q, Eaton, and Rodon, it makes more sense to me to try adding more pieces to that and give this another whirl. If you add a Justin Upton along with a Frazier or Lawrie, what's stopping that team from being a playoff contender? I think I'd much rather ride out the next couple of seasons with a team that can do some real damage then wait for prospects we don't have in our system to arrive and waste the primes of all of our staff. Either of those lineups to me look good:

 

Eaton

Cabrera

Abreu

Upton

Frazier/Lawrie

Laroche/Thompson

Avila/Navarro

Sanchez

Saladino

 

I'd be ok with trading anything outside Anderson for Frazier and if he's tearing up AAA in June, replace Saladino and either have him hit 9th or lead him off and move Eaton to the 2 hole and roll with that lineup the next 2 years. I don't really think this is the time to be cautious as an organization, they should be aggressive to add offense while improving defense (Upton, Frazier, and Lawrie would improve both). If it blows up in your face and goes nowhere, you can trade all players of value near the end of their contracts and get a massive rebuild started. No half measures though please.

[nitetrain8601]

I know everyone wants to model the franchise after the Astros, Royals, and Cubs now, but honestly, with the core they have in Sale, Abreu, Q, Eaton, and Rodon, it makes more sense to me to try adding more pieces to that and give this another whirl. If you add a Justin Upton along with a Frazier or Lawrie, what's stopping that team from being a playoff contender? I think I'd much rather ride out the next couple of seasons with a team that can do some real damage then wait for prospects we don't have in our system to arrive and waste the primes of all of our staff. Either of those lineups to me look good:

 

Eaton

Cabrera

Abreu

Upton

Frazier/Lawrie

Laroche/Thompson

Avila/Navarro

Sanchez

Saladino

 

I'd be ok with trading anything outside Anderson for Frazier and if he's tearing up AAA in June, replace Saladino and either have him hit 9th or lead him off and move Eaton to the 2 hole and roll with that lineup the next 2 years. I don't really think this is the time to be cautious as an organization, they should be aggressive to add offense while improving defense (Upton, Frazier, and Lawrie would improve both). If it blows up in your face and goes nowhere, you can trade all players of value near the end of their contracts and get a massive rebuild started. No half measures though please.

 

IMO, the Sox are too many impact pieces away. Unless you are able to acquire two power hitters at least, this team will have a hard time competing.

[Chicago White Sox]

IMO, the Sox are too many impact pieces away. Unless you are able to acquire two power hitters at least, this team will have a hard time competing.

Sign Upton, trade for Frazier and we could have a pretty damn good offense.

 

1. Eaton, CF

2. Johnson, 2B

3. Abreu, 1B

4. Upton, RF

5. Cabrera, LF

6. Frazier, 3B

7. LaRoche, DH

8. Avila, C

9. Saladino, SS

 

IF: Sanchez

OF: Thompson

UT: ??

BC: Navarro

[Chisoxfn]

They absolutely can go for it, they just have to be prepared to spend the money. That is what it comes down to. I don't want to suffer through years of rebuilding. It all depends on what JR and company are willing to do. However, they have to be careful and be prepared to deal with the consequences of missing the boat as it could backfire and set the franchise farther back (that said, if Q and Sale stay healthy it at least ensures you have two healthy assets to dangle if you ultimately do need to hit the restart switch).

 

The toughest thing about your top chips being your pitchers is that they are far more likely to get injured.

[Real]

if they go for it, they need to go with free agent signings. that keeps quintana here and keeps the farm system stocked

[bmags]

Because it won't work. Because it will make us worse. Because 1 year after "going for it" we are already discussing dumping off the contracts of the players we signed for basically nothing just so we can sign other players. The teams you mentioned don't have just barely enough to compete if all goes well, they have players not just there, but players on the way. We are 1-2 years from this. We are 1-2 years from a surplus anywhere.

[Jose Abreu]

Going to bed, hoping to wake up to similar "Sox trade for Samardzija and sign Robertson" news like I did last year after the first night of the Winter Meetings

[LDF]

 

no offense to anyone, but as our fearless leader have stated, it all comes down to the owners.

 

and they will not do it, esp if the salary goes above 130 mil. they want their profits.

[GreenSox]

Because there are massive holes on this team and org across the board. The chances of success are small and the chances of setting the org. back several years are high. The Six tried that patch up approach most of the last 8 seasons and it failed miserably. The one year they didn't and acquired young players, they improved 10 games.

[LDF]

 

man, here is my post, a post worthy of a fiction novel.

 

how much money will this "go for it" be allowed.

 

me, chris davies, heyward or upton.

 

trade anderson, montas, beck, hawkins, mj, and may to miami for

 

dee gordon and pardo.

 

extend gordon contract.

[Bob Sacamano]

I want them to go all in over the next 2 years. If we're in the same position we're in now 2 years from now, blow it up. Get the max return for Sale, Q, Abreu, Eaton and commit to a rebuild.

[WBWSF]

Dunt; I agree with you. Adding a few pieces could easily make this team a Playoff Contender in 2016. Although I was not a fan of Bill Veeck, I agreed with when he said "The future is now, 5 year plans usually lead to new 5 year plans". With the core of Abreu, Eaton. Sale, Quintana, Rodon and Robertson we could easily contend in 2016. Adding a few pieces would definitely make things interesting in 2016. I'm hoping Hahn can get it done.

[LDF]

Dunt; I agree with you. Adding a few pieces could easily make this team a Playoff Contender in 2016. Although I was not a fan of Bill Veeck, I agreed with when he said "The future is now, 5 year plans usually lead to new 5 year plans". With the core of Abreu, Eaton. Sale, Quintana, Rodon and Robertson we could easily contend in 2016. Adding a few pieces would definitely make things interesting in 2016. I'm hoping Hahn can get it done.

 

i didn't know that about veeck. i like it.

[WBWSF]

LDF; Veeck said "The future is now, 5 year plans usually lead to new 5 year plans" in his auto-biography, Veeck As In Wreck. The main problem I had with Veeck was he didn't practice what he preached during his 2nd ownership of the White Sox. 4 of his 5 years of his 2nd ownership produced some of the worse teams in White Sox history. Plus he tried to move the White Sox to Denver after the 1980 season.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

LDF; Veeck said "The future is now, 5 year plans usually lead to new 5 year plans" in his auto-biography, Veeck As In Wreck. The main problem I had with Veeck was he didn't practice what he preached during his 2nd ownership of the White Sox. 4 of his 5 years of his 2nd ownership produced some of the worse teams in White Sox history. Plus he tried to move the White Sox to Denver after the 1980 season.

Ok, this shows how old I am, but in 1960 Veeck traded away terrific young talent - Johnny Callison, Earl Battey, Don Mincher, for veterans who were on the downside. With horrible results.

[LDF]

Ok, this shows how old I am, but in 1960 Veeck traded away terrific young talent - Johnny Callison, Earl Battey, Don Mincher, for veterans who were on the downside. With horrible results.

 

i too do not know the answer, but could that have been generated by what the cost would have been if they would have held on???

 

i know veeck is no angle but i can look back and remember fondly of him.

[Balta1701]

Why not?

 

Here are the 10 teams that made the playoffs last year.

Texas Rangers

Houston Astros

Kansas City Royals

New York Yankees

Toronto Blue Jays

Chicago Cubs

Pittsburgh Pirates

St. Louis Cardinals

Los Angeles Dodgers

New York Mets

 

Out of those 10 teams....every single one has been in the top 5 of Baseball America's prospect rankings in the last 5 years. Every single one. Even the f***ing Yankees and Dodgers, who still spent $500 million between them last year. 10/10. What does that mean? They either have a supply of their own guys they can rely on directly (Mets, Royals, Cubs, basically all of them, etc.) or they have guys available to trade for assets (Blue Jays, Cardinals, Royals, etc.)

 

The number of teams that made the playoffs in 2014 while "rapidly retooling", without developing a strong system to support that retooling, was 0. Zero teams were able to spend their way or sneak their way into the playoffs in 2015 while doing what the White Sox want to do. And out of those teams...we're not going to be the biggest spenders. In other words, we need to somehow be "luckier than every other team that tries this".

 

The games are giving you a clear message about what works and what doesn't. Free Agency and spending money, without a strong system of support, worked for 0 teams last year. Ignoring that message is how we got here.

[Hatchetman]

I say GO FOR IT too. How many times in life are you going to have Sale/Quintan/Rodon at the head of a rotation?

[Dick Allen]

Why not?

 

Here are the 10 teams that made the playoffs last year.

Texas Rangers

Houston Astros

Kansas City Royals

New York Yankees

Toronto Blue Jays

Chicago Cubs

Pittsburgh Pirates

St. Louis Cardinals

Los Angeles Dodgers

New York Mets

 

Out of those 10 teams....every single one has been in the top 5 of Baseball America's prospect rankings in the last 5 years. Every single one. Even the f***ing Yankees and Dodgers, who still spent $500 million between them last year. 10/10. What does that mean? They either have a supply of their own guys they can rely on directly (Mets, Royals, Cubs, basically all of them, etc.) or they have guys available to trade for assets (Blue Jays, Cardinals, Royals, etc.)

 

The number of teams that made the playoffs in 2014 while "rapidly retooling", without developing a strong system to support that retooling, was 0. Zero teams were able to spend their way or sneak their way into the playoffs in 2015 while doing what the White Sox want to do. And out of those teams...we're not going to be the biggest spenders. In other words, we need to somehow be "luckier than every other team that tries this".

 

The games are giving you a clear message about what works and what doesn't. Free Agency and spending money, without a strong system of support, worked for 0 teams last year. Ignoring that message is how we got here.

 

I would say taking on some cash propelled the Blue Jays. Not a stellar farm system.

 

[flavum]

I say GO FOR IT too. How many times in life are you going to have Sale/Quintan/Rodon at the head of a rotation?

 

Well, let's see...2016, 2017, 2018, 2019.

 

I just hope they don't do anything for 2016 that will fall short and also hurt them for the other years.

[bmags]

I feel like we are going to be like the 00 Royals with an OF of Damon, Beltran and Dye

 

"Whoa they had Sale, Quintana and Rodon in the same rotation and they didn't win anything?"

[Hatchetman]

Well, let's see...2016, 2017, 2018, 2019.

 

OK. how many times will they all be healthy and still in prime form? nobody knows.

[Lip Man 1]

Because there are massive holes on this team and org across the board. The chances of success are small and the chances of setting the org. back several years are high. The Six tried that patch up approach most of the last 8 seasons and it failed miserably. The one year they didn't and acquired young players, they improved 10 games.

 

Well stated. And remember who is still basically running the show. Lots of evidence says it's still Kenny.

 

Mark

 

[Balta1701]

I would say taking on some cash propelled the Blue Jays. Not a stellar farm system.

1. They were, in fact, ranked #5 in 2012. My statement continues to be 100% accurate.

2. Taking on money helped yes, but why were they able to trade for David Price? Why were they able to trade for Josh Donaldson (aside from Billy Beane being a fool unless he's negotiating with the White Sox)? Ditto Tulowitzki? They were able to do so because they had chips to cash in.

3. Why were they able to let Melky Cabrera walk and still get better? Because they had a young defender ready to step in.

4. Why were they able to "take on some cash"? Because they developed enough of their own guys or traded for undervalued guys...leaving them room to "take on some cash".

 

It's not the only part. They are obviously better than our franchise at getting the best out of their hitters as well; Bautista, Encarnacion all testify to that. But no where did I say "it is the only part". There's always disagreement of course, maybe some other pub puts a team 7-8 when BA puts them top 5, but that's a good proxy for "having a strong-ish system". It's no guarantee. Being a top 5 franchise in the BA listings does not guarantee you will turn that into success.

 

However, in 2015, it was a necessary but not sufficient condition. 0 teams made it that did not make the top 5 in recent years. In 2015, if you did not recently have a top 5 system in the BA numbers you did not make the playoffs.

 

0/10 slots filled by what the white sox tried to do is as strong of a message as baseball can send you.

[Dick Allen]

1. They were, in fact, ranked #5 in 2012. My statement continues to be 100% accurate.

2. Taking on money helped yes, but why were they able to trade for David Price? Why were they able to trade for Josh Donaldson (aside from Billy Beane being a fool unless he's negotiating with the White Sox)? Ditto Tulowitzki? They were able to do so because they had chips to cash in.

3. Why were they able to let Melky Cabrera walk and still get better? Because they had a young defender ready to step in.

4. Why were they able to "take on some cash"? Because they developed enough of their own guys or traded for undervalued guys...leaving them room to "take on some cash".

 

It's not the only part. They are obviously better than our franchise at getting the best out of their hitters as well; Bautista, Encarnacion all testify to that. But no where did I say "it is the only part". There's always disagreement of course, maybe some other pub puts a team 7-8 when BA puts them top 5, but that's a good proxy for "having a strong-ish system". It's no guarantee. Being a top 5 franchise in the BA listings does not guarantee you will turn that into success.

 

However, in 2015, it was a necessary but not sufficient condition. 0 teams made it that did not make the top 5 in recent years. In 2015, if you did not recently have a top 5 system in the BA numbers you did not make the playoffs.

 

0/10 slots filled by what the white sox tried to do is as strong of a message as baseball can send you.

Here are their top prospects in 2012. Several they traded away long ago. Tell me again why being ranked by Phil Rogers and Company in the top 5 within 5 years is necessary to make the playoffs?

 

It would be more interesting if you showed us the players that got them this ranking and how those players actually contributed to their winning. In the Blue Jays 2012 list, they actually helped the Mets a lot more.

 

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/11/30/...spects-for-2012