If the Sox acquire Frazier and Upton without giving up major league pi

[Chisoxfn]

I was thinking about our chances and names connected and if the Sox were going to go for it, I'd think this is the path they'd be headed. They'd fill two major voids and I think could fit this within payroll. Sox have enough prospects to get this done without using a major league piece (although would potentially be giving up Anderson + a top young pitcher). Lets also assume we keep Alexei or sign an equivalent at SS.

 

I'd probably argue that is a team that could absolutely contend (as I'd expect rebounds from Melky and LaRoche).

[bmags]

Depends what we mean by contend. It would probably get us to 83-84 wins.

[Southwest Sider]

At this point, I just cannot get excited about Frazier. He seems like he could be a solid offensive piece and contribute to a potential playoff team, but he also seems like he could be yet another player who falls on his face in the AL. Maybe I'm just used to that.

 

There is no possible way I'd consider trading any of our best prospects for someone like that. Best case scenario is he adds a few wins. Worst case scenario is that he doesn't do much extra hitting then Laroche did this past season.

Edited December 8, 2015 by South Sider

[Chisoxfn]

By contend, I'll say we are more likely than not to be in the race by the final week of the season.

[greg775]

Hate to be a fuddy duddy, but no. Team has to shore up its defense and bullpen and fundamentals to compete in the Central. I don't believe under Robin the team is capable of being strong fundamentally. And Hahn doesn't appear to be building around defense. Baserunning and baseball-type instinct plays are also sub-par.

I do think we have a darn good starting rotation, but just too many holes even with those 2 additions. Frazier and Upton WOULD excite me as far as returning to getting some power back in the Cell.

But the Sox right now have a major problem in building a team that can compete playing a majority of games in the Central.

 

Frazier and Upton along with Abreu might get us back on track to a lift and pull title type team. I'm not saying it's impossible. I will say we've had BAD LUCK with NL players and they both might suck all season til they get adjusted.

 

[mmmmmbeeer]

They should've contended last season so, yes, upgrading with Frazier and Upton absolutely put us in a position to contend.

 

As you mentioned, what we got from Laroche and Melky last season were aberrations....they are proven commodities who had awful seasons (though Melky rebounded a bit)....if JR is willing to throw some money at this team to see what we can do, then I absolutely like snagging Frazier and Upton.

[nitetrain8601]

I'd prefer CarGO over Frazier as he has a longer history of doing it. If you got him and one of Heyward, Cespedes or Upton. I'd feel way more confident.

[Chisoxfn]

Hate to be a fuddy duddy, but no. Team has to shore up its defense and bullpen and fundamentals to compete in the Central. I don't believe under Robin the team is capable of being strong fundamentally. And Hahn doesn't appear to be building around defense. Baserunning and baseball-type instinct plays are also sub-par.

I do think we have a darn good starting rotation, but just too many holes even with those 2 additions. Frazier and Upton WOULD excite me as far as returning to getting some power back in the Cell.

But the Sox right now have a major problem in building a team that can compete playing a majority of games in the Central.

 

Frazier and Upton along with Abreu might get us back on track to a lift and pull title type team. I'm not saying it's impossible. I will say we've had BAD LUCK with NL players and they both might suck all season til they get adjusted.

Technically Frazier and Upton both would be defensive upgrades. I already think we significantly upgraded catcher (I think that platoon will be really solid..well above league average catcher production). If you could get upgraded performance out of 3B and RF that would be pretty significant because than you are talking 3 positions. I don't see a lot of production player regression, but do see some potential for actual progression (2B / Melky / LaRoche).

[fathom]

Frazier would be our best overall non-pitcher by far

[Chisoxfn]

I'd prefer CarGO over Frazier as he has a longer history of doing it. If you got him and one of Heyward, Cespedes or Upton. I'd feel way more confident.

CarGo costs a lot more money though (plus prospects) and means we still have significant voids in the infield. In the OF we can leverage Trayce off the bench / start him a bit (if his bat plays), thus allowing Melky to DH more (and stay fresh...plus just minimize our defensive downside). Frazier is a huge upgrade at 3B, imo. I don't know enough about Frazier as I don't watch the reds much but his stats have been very very solid past few years (the type of solid that rarely exists in baseball). I realize he isn't sexy, but at that position, what he's doing in the non-steroid era is pretty good.

 

My only issue is we'd be a little right handed heavy in the middle of the order, but at least between Upton / Frazier / Abreu you have two .350+ OBP guys and a .320+ OBP guy and career OPS of .784, .825, and .904. My only real knock on Frazier (unless he has an injury history I'm not sure of) is the fact that he's getting close to the wrong side of 30 (but you still have him for another year, right) and that his OBP is lower than you'd like. That said, you'd be adding two 30 HR guys to a lineup.

[fathom]

I'd prefer CarGO over Frazier as he has a longer history of doing it. If you got him and one of Heyward, Cespedes or Upton. I'd feel way more confident.

 

Cubs main target is Heyward now. We aren't outbidding them and the Cards for him.

[Baron]

Cubs main target is Heyward now. We aren't outbidding them and the Cards for him.

 

I dont see anybody but the Cards getting him. They gave up plenty to acquire him. But there's always the mystery team.

[Chicago White Sox]

Depends what we mean by contend. It would probably get us to 83-84 wins.

How do you figure? Upton & Frazier combined for 8 WAR last year, they'd be replacing guys who put up a -3 WAR. That's an 11 point swing right there (assuming production maintains). Doesn't include any improvement from Melky or LaRoche, who combined for -1.7 WAR, which is incredibly likely IMO. Also doesn't consider any improvement from any of our the young guys, in particular Rodon, who has plenty of room to improve over the 2.1 WAR he posted last year. With a couple significant upgrades at 3B & RF, this team could very easily be a legitimate playoff contender.

[nitetrain8601]

Cubs main target is Heyward now. We aren't outbidding them and the Cards for him.

 

Which is fine. I'd go with Cespedes or Upton to go along with CarGo. Or hell, sign Cespedes and Upton while only giving up one pick and keeping your prospects. Cespedes has a great arm in the OF. Upton is decent defensively. Thompson or Shuck end up off the bench. Cabrera as DH.

 

 

[fathom]

Cinci's asking price is exorbitant for Frazier. I don't see it happening unless they change what they want. Lots of suitors too.

 

Yep, Sox don't have the pieces they would want (since Rodon is going nowhere). Lawrie seems to be 100 times more likely.

[Chicago White Sox]

Cinci's asking price is exorbitant for Frazier. I don't see it happening unless they change what they want. Lots of suitors too.

Have you heard if the Sox are interested? If so, what would be an exorbitant price from our perspective?

[greg775]

How do you figure? Upton & Frazier combined for 8 WAR last year, they'd be replacing guys who put up a -3 WAR. That's an 11 point swing right there (assuming production maintains). Doesn't include any improvement from Melky or LaRoche, who combined for -1.7 WAR, which is incredibly likely IMO. Also doesn't consider any improvement from any of our the young guys, in particular Rodon, who has plenty of room to improve over the 2.1 WAR he posted last year. With a couple significant upgrades at 3B & RF, this team could very easily be a legitimate playoff contender.

 

Yes, but NL players who come to the Sox generally stink. These 2 NL players might hit .111 in April and May before they get going. By then in the Central?? Playing KC and Detroit and Cleveland all those times? We could be out of it by the time they get hot in the Cell in the summer.

[Chisoxfn]

Yep, Sox don't have the pieces they would want (since Rodon is going nowhere). Lawrie seems to be 100 times more likely.

I don't think Lawrie, Upton is enough to make us probable contenders. Could we, sure, but I'd think if we are going to make those moves, we'd need another move to go with it (to realistically contend). And I just don't like the idea of half passing things. Either we do something where we feel it is more than probable we make the playoffs or we do something to set us up for the future. The half cocked schtick isn't what I'd recommend.

 

That said, you could do Lawrie, Upton, +.

[BlackSox13]

Yes I think that Frazier and Upton could make the Sox contenders but no I don't think the Sox acquire either Frazier or Upton (despite rumors).

[LDF]

Yes I think that Frazier and Upton could make the Sox contenders but no I don't think the Sox acquire either Frazier or Upton (despite rumors).

 

i totally agree with you on the Frazier part. the price would be too steep to pay.

 

but the upton rumor is soooo much like what the sox ownership group would do. that is all i would say on that. my feelings on that is well documented.

[shysocks]

Yes I think that Frazier and Upton could make the Sox contenders but no I don't think the Sox acquire either Frazier or Upton (despite rumors).

Well said.

 

If we get those two, and if we see production from Melky and LaRoche that is similar to what we expected when we signed them...

 

Eaton

Melky

Abreu

Upton

LaRoche

Frazier

Avila/Navarro

Saladino

Sanchez

 

That's a very good lineup. Exorcising Avi Garcia would really do wonders.

[Eminor3rd]

Well said.

 

If we get those two, and if we see production from Melky and LaRoche that is similar to what we expected when we signed them...

 

Eaton

Melky

Abreu

Upton

LaRoche

Frazier

Avila/Navarro

Saladino

Sanchez

 

That's a very good lineup. Exorcising Avi Garcia would really do wonders.

 

I want a T-shirt that says, "Exorcise Avi!"

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

I still think making Saladino the starting SS would be a major mistake.

[Hatchetman]

LaRoche is done. Garbage. He'll be 36 years old. This is the list of players in 2015, 35 or older who posted above average offensive numbers.

 

Name wRC+

David Ortiz 138

Alex Rodriguez 129

Carlos Beltran 119

A.J. Pierzynski 112

Adrian Beltre 108

Juan Uribe 104

 

[shysocks]

I want a T-shirt that says, "Exorcise Avi!"

I'll contribute to the Kickstarter.

 

I still think making Saladino the starting SS would be a major mistake.

It would not be ideal for a team that is trying to win, but at least we would be strong up the middle defensively and we'd be keeping the seat warm for Anderson (who might be gone anyway in this fictional world where we have Todd Frazier).

 

LaRoche is done. Garbage. He'll be 36 years old. This is the list of players in 2015, 35 or older who posted above average offensive numbers.

 

Name wRC+

David Ortiz 138

Alex Rodriguez 129

Carlos Beltran 119

A.J. Pierzynski 112

Adrian Beltre 108

Juan Uribe 104

I filtered for 300 plate appearances and got 9 guys with wRC+ at 100 or more, out of 21 players total. We have evidence LaRoche played with a hand injury last year. I don't know if he'll be good, but I'll bet you he's better than we saw in 2015..