Shelby Miller to Arizona

[BlackSox13]

A haul like what Atlanta got makes me wonder if the Sox FO would reconsider who is " un-tradable ".

 

I looked around a Diamondbacks forum and for the most part fans were not happy with what the Diamondbacks gave up.

[Flash Tizzle]

From ESPN:

 

One more thing about that trade. As one NL executive cracked Tuesday night: "Now, when the Dodgers go out and get Jose Fernandez, this means they're going to have to give up a ton."

 

Hahn should be there in contact with Los Angeles this whole process about Quintana

[LittleHurt05]

You may not have known if Arizona would have given the same package, but you can't justify receiving less than this from another team. I'm sorry, you just can't. An equally important part of talking with other teams is an understanding of who may be desparate or appearing to put all the chips in

 

 

Whatever intangible reasons or moving parts we're all talking about as excuses, point is someone inferior to Quintana received this package and this is what the floor of any deal should be. Will anyone here just shurg their shoulders if he didn't?

 

And I'm not justifying receiving less from another team. I just don't think you can assume the same package is ever available for Q. Even if 99% of the baseball world thinks Q > Shelby, if Arizona thinks different that is all that matters.

 

If anything, this trade just make Q even more untradeable because the floor has been raised as you said.

[Dam8610]

If that's the package the Braves get for Shelby Miller, then a 5 year cost controlled Quintana should get Seager, Urias, and another young, ML ready bat from the Dodgers. That would be about an equivalent price all things considered.

[LDF]

And I'm not justifying receiving less from another team. I just don't think you can assume the same package is ever available for Q. Even if 99% of the baseball world thinks Q > Shelby, if Arizona thinks different that is all that matters.

 

If anything, this trade just make Q even more untradeable because the floor has been raised as you said.

 

this trade if it is to happen, make me realize how important it is to invest in pitching at every chance the sox has.

 

now whether the sox FO changes their outlook or opinion on the sox not trading or to make available Q, Robertson and even Rodon for trade, all this is nice a nice discussion.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

I think there are a lot of moving parts to every trade and people shouldn't just assume Q can get a similar package from another team or even would have gotten the same package from Arizona.

This is probably 100% accurate and should be considered before beginning to compile fantastical returns for Quintana (or even Sale).

[harfman77]

It frustrates me reading of another team selling high on a player and taking advantage of another team's willingness to overpay to compete.

 

White Sox NEVER make these deals and they desparately need to. And I don't want to hear, "these trades are rare," because it happens every damn offseason and at the trade deadline. We've seen from Kimbrell and now Miller what the return can be for good pitching. Take advantage of it, Hahn

 

I agree, the Sox always seem to sell low in the trade market moving guys that have little value. It would be nice to stock up like the Braves have done. The Braves have done a really great job clearing payroll for the future while getting higher ceiling guys that have a pretty high floor as well.

[harfman77]

A haul like what Atlanta got makes me wonder if the Sox FO would reconsider who is " un-tradable ".

 

I looked around a Diamondbacks forum and for the most part fans were not happy with what the Diamondbacks gave up.

 

Hahn has said no one is untouchable in a trade.

[Harry Chappas]

Hahn has said no one is untouchable in a trade.

 

Yet he has not moved anyone of note when the time was right.

 

Never moving Ramirez was a bad move in hindsight.

 

His return on Peavy is not looking all that great.

 

The Santiago trade seems to be wash at best.

 

The Davidson trade was a loss.

 

This organization seems to be stagnating as they are building their farm system somewhat but to what the degree that it will benefit them moving forward...especially with positional players

Edited December 9, 2015 by Harry Chappas

[GGajewski18]

Yet he has not moved anyone of note when the time was right.

 

Never moving Ramirez was a bad move in hindsight.

 

His return on Peavy is not looking all that great.

The Santiago trade seems to be wash at best.

 

The Davidson trade was a loss.

 

This organization seems to be stagnating as they are build their farm system somewhat but to the degree that it will benefit them moving forward.

 

Montas is a top 100 prospect and Wendelken will be in the bullpen at some point

 

Eaton >>>>> Santiago

[OmarComing25]

The Braves have done an incredible job and you're not wrong but the Sox would have to move Abreu/Sale/Quintana/Eaton. The Sox really have no complimentary pieces. Robertson and that's it.

 

1.) Stars (using the word liberally): Abreu, Sale, Quintana, Eaton

 

2.) Young assets that are potential building blocks: Rodon, Fulmer, Anderson

 

3.) Nice young pieces: Thompson, E. Johnson and Montas

 

4.) Tradable assets in a teardown: Robertson and maybe Jones.

 

My point being, would a tear down like the Braves be possible without anyone notable? I certainly don't think so. However, I think the Sox can swap some younger assets for better fits at positions of need. That being said, if I am them, I am considering selling high on Quintana/Robertson, keeping the QO pick and gambling one 1 yearr FAs (Pearce, Latos, a reliever) that could potentially flipped in July and building for 2017. Especially given how the college draftees have been flying to the Majors recently.

 

Looking towards 2017, the Sox could add a lot of talent by doing the following:

 

1.) Getting a Miller like haul for Quintana

2.) Getting a good return for Robertson

3.) Getting three top 50 draft picks

4.) Getting a return for 1 yearr FAs that work out.

5.) Getting Anderson, Fulmer, Montas and Johnson to develop.

I am on board with this plan, a lot of posters seem to think of only the extremes, either a complete tear-down or "going for it", but I like the idea of a one-year rebuild while looking to 2017 and 2018. And even if we make 2016 a rebuilding year there's still an outside shot to contend if we catch a few 2008-like breaks.

[Bob Sacamano]

I am on board with this plan, a lot of posters seem to think of only the extremes, either a complete tear-down or "going for it", but I like the idea of a one-year rebuild while looking to 2017 and 2018. And even if we make 2016 a rebuilding year there's still an outside shot to contend if we catch a few 2008-like breaks.

 

Atlanta is doing a pretty solid rebuild that only started a year ago but they've basically traded everyone. They have to have the deepest farm right now (and they still have guys they can trade over the next 7 months).

[GREEDY]

Am I the only person that thinks if you trade one pitcher you should try and move both of them?

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Am I the only person that thinks if you trade one pitcher you should try and move both of them?

 

If they trade Chris Sale, they should just trade everyone of value and go into it thinking about 2020. If you trade Q, you can survive based on the return if you get major leaguers at some of 3B/C/OF/SS

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Am I the only person that thinks if you trade one pitcher you should try and move both of them?

I think I've become less opposed to this over time.

[Frank_Thomas]

Am I the only person that thinks if you trade one pitcher you should try and move both of them?

 

If we are blowing it up yes I am on board. But if we are trading Q for MLB ready talent that will help this year or next then I think you hold onto sale with the hopes the trade allows you to fill holes in the lineup. The only way I am trading both is if we are attempting to get young top prospects that take time to develope, which I don't trust this org doing anymore unfortunately.

[Lip Man 1]

Tony LaRussa retooling the D-backs in the desert.

 

Mark

[shakes]

The Braves have done an incredible job and you're not wrong but the Sox would have to move Abreu/Sale/Quintana/Eaton. The Sox really have no complimentary pieces. Robertson and that's it.

 

1.) Stars (using the word liberally): Abreu, Sale, Quintana, Eaton

 

2.) Young assets that are potential building blocks: Rodon, Fulmer, Anderson

 

3.) Nice young pieces: Thompson, E. Johnson and Montas

 

4.) Tradable assets in a teardown: Robertson and maybe Jones.

 

My point being, would a tear down like the Braves be possible without anyone notable? I certainly don't think so. However, I think the Sox can swap some younger assets for better fits at positions of need. That being said, if I am them, I am considering selling high on Quintana/Robertson, keeping the QO pick and gambling one 1 yearr FAs (Pearce, Latos, a reliever) that could potentially flipped in July and building for 2017. Especially given how the college draftees have been flying to the Majors recently.

 

Looking towards 2017, the Sox could add a lot of talent by doing the following:

 

1.) Getting a Miller like haul for Quintana

2.) Getting a good return for Robertson

3.) Getting three top 50 draft picks

4.) Getting a return for 1 yearr FAs that work out.

5.) Getting Anderson, Fulmer, Montas and Johnson to develop.

 

I love this plan.

 

I would have loved the Dbacks package for Q. And if you are doing this, as soon s Melky turns it around you can make him available. Same goes for Avi....if anyone was willing to give up something of value.

 

I would also be willing to shop Sale in this scenario if the value is higher than Q.

[southsideirish71]

The Braves have done an incredible job and you're not wrong but the Sox would have to move Abreu/Sale/Quintana/Eaton. The Sox really have no complimentary pieces. Robertson and that's it.

 

1.) Stars (using the word liberally): Abreu, Sale, Quintana, Eaton

 

2.) Young assets that are potential building blocks: Rodon, Fulmer, Anderson

 

3.) Nice young pieces: Thompson, E. Johnson and Montas

 

4.) Tradable assets in a teardown: Robertson and maybe Jones.

 

My point being, would a tear down like the Braves be possible without anyone notable? I certainly don't think so. However, I think the Sox can swap some younger assets for better fits at positions of need. That being said, if I am them, I am considering selling high on Quintana/Robertson, keeping the QO pick and gambling one 1 yearr FAs (Pearce, Latos, a reliever) that could potentially flipped in July and building for 2017. Especially given how the college draftees have been flying to the Majors recently.

 

Looking towards 2017, the Sox could add a lot of talent by doing the following:

 

1.) Getting a Miller like haul for Quintana

2.) Getting a good return for Robertson

3.) Getting three top 50 draft picks

4.) Getting a return for 1 yearr FAs that work out.

5.) Getting Anderson, Fulmer, Montas and Johnson to develop.

 

This is a great plan.

[harfman77]

The Braves have done an incredible job and you're not wrong but the Sox would have to move Abreu/Sale/Quintana/Eaton. The Sox really have no complimentary pieces. Robertson and that's it.

 

1.) Stars (using the word liberally): Abreu, Sale, Quintana, Eaton

 

2.) Young assets that are potential building blocks: Rodon, Fulmer, Anderson

 

3.) Nice young pieces: Thompson, E. Johnson and Montas

 

4.) Tradable assets in a teardown: Robertson and maybe Jones.

 

My point being, would a tear down like the Braves be possible without anyone notable? I certainly don't think so. However, I think the Sox can swap some younger assets for better fits at positions of need. That being said, if I am them, I am considering selling high on Quintana/Robertson, keeping the QO pick and gambling one 1 yearr FAs (Pearce, Latos, a reliever) that could potentially flipped in July and building for 2017. Especially given how the college draftees have been flying to the Majors recently.

 

Looking towards 2017, the Sox could add a lot of talent by doing the following:

 

1.) Getting a Miller like haul for Quintana

2.) Getting a good return for Robertson

3.) Getting three top 50 draft picks

4.) Getting a return for 1 yearr FAs that work out.

5.) Getting Anderson, Fulmer, Montas and Johnson to develop.

 

I am on board with that approach. The issues I have are with spending a lot of money on guys that you don't will work in this environment and giving up 2/3 of the value you have in #3 to do so.

 

I think the Sox could pull off a blockbuster with the Astros. Apparently Springer is being shopped and a deal that sent Q and Robertson from the Sox for Springer plus a package of prospects that included guys like JD Davis, AJ Reed and Michael Feliz. Next years team would not be much better, but in the spring of 2017 the Sox would be really poised to make some noise.

 

 

C ??

1B Reed

2B Sanchez

SS Anderson

3B Davis

LF Eaton

CF Thompson

RF Springer

DH Abreu

 

SP Sale

SP Rodon

SP Feliz

SP Fulmer

SP Johnson/FA/Danish/Beck

 

CP Montas

RP Jones

RP Wendelken

RP Webb

RP Petricka

RP LHRP

RP LHRP

 

 

[Eminor3rd]

We can't get a Miller-like haul for Quintana now -- only Dave Stewart would make that deal, and Dave Stewart doesn't have enough good prospects now.

[harfman77]

Am I the only person that thinks if you trade one pitcher you should try and move both of them?

 

Depends on the return, if you are getting MLB ready guys back you should see what you have, if the team seems further away a year from now you can consider trading the other. It would be really difficult to trade to top flight pitchers in the same offseason.

[bmags]

I am on board with that approach. The issues I have are with spending a lot of money on guys that you don't will work in this environment and giving up 2/3 of the value you have in #3 to do so.

 

I think the Sox could pull off a blockbuster with the Astros. Apparently Springer is being shopped and a deal that sent Q and Robertson from the Sox for Springer plus a package of prospects that included guys like JD Davis, AJ Reed and Michael Feliz. Next years team would not be much better, but in the spring of 2017 the Sox would be really poised to make some noise.

 

 

C ??

1B Reed

2B Sanchez

SS Anderson

3B Davis

LF Eaton

CF Thompson

RF Springer

DH Abreu

 

SP Sale

SP Rodon

SP Feliz

SP Fulmer

SP Johnson/FA/Danish/Beck

 

CP Montas

RP Jones

RP Wendelken

RP Webb

RP Petricka

RP LHRP

RP LHRP

 

I agree. Honestly just don't see the sox being able to improve in enough areas through marginal upgrades in FA/Trades each year until we lose sale in 2019. We are a lot closer to contending trading Q and praying for Fullmer to be good than keeping Q and having no ability to bring in elite talent.

[OmarComing25]

We can't get a Miller-like haul for Quintana now -- only Dave Stewart would make that deal, and Dave Stewart doesn't have enough good prospects now.

This is a good point. Just because one GM is stupid enough to do a deal that some executives are calling the "worst trade they've ever seen", doesn't mean that other GMs are now equally as dumb.

 

That being said, Quintana is a lot more valuable than Miller, so a proposal like that for Q is not at all outrageous like it was for Miller.

[bmags]

Always seem to be the case with the White Sox. As soon as we have a val;uable fit to sell, we are told the market isn't good and we can't get anything for them. Then a comparable pitcher gets sold for a huge haul, and we're told that deal doesn't exist anymore.