Plans for rest of the Off Season

[Y2Jimmy0]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter what plans we have for next year... We're not going to win anything. 2017 opens our window - at the earliest. 2018 is more likely.

 

After being in the optimist crowd for the last decade, I've finally joined the dark side.

 

 

I actually disagree. The Sox were 5 wins away from .500 last year with the worst offense in the league. I think they just picked up at least 3 wins alone at 3B. Make a couple more marginal upgrades and they should battle for a 2nd wildcard honestly.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Unfortunately, I agree with you. Looks like a top 5 draft pick in 2017.

 

 

So you think the Sox will be the 5th worst team in baseball next year, even though they've already upgraded 2 spots and it's only December 11th? This board is absolutely maddening sometimes.

[Frank_Thomas]

So you think the Sox will be the 5th worst team in baseball next year, even though they've already upgraded 2 spots and it's only December 11th? This board is absolutely maddening sometimes.

 

I understand your frustration but do you really believe the two upgrades are really enough to make a 5-10 game difference in the win column? Cause I don't! No fan should be happy at the state of this Organization right now. We have literally sucked since we won the WS in '05 which was 9 years ago. Our fan base are hard working blue colored fans who actually enjoy good baseball and show up when we see it. The sad saps they have run out lately have not gotten butts in the seats and unfortunately the Cubs have forced our hands. As much as it sucks to state it's a fact. I don't doubt we are working on more but the fact it was reported we didn't know our direction a few weeks ago is worrisome. I love my sox and will watch, live and breath white, silver, and black. But most cAsual fans won't we need to win and now.

[Frank_Thomas]

May get a lot of gruff for even mentioning this possibility, but would you all be interested in trading with the Red Sox for either Hanley or Panda if they either ate a large portion of the contract if we gave them a better package of prospects or other players on the MLB roster (hypothetical so I don't want to include names, to spare the it's to little too, too much, etc. You all know better than me who it may cost) or traded Laroach, plus; and absorbed most of their contract.

 

Again I know it's a lot of money for sub par players last season, but we are talking about two NL players who were pretty damn good for a extended period of time. Who transitioned into a new league (which we all know is superior). I have know doubt both of these players bounce back next season and can fill a spot in our dreaded lineup (as of now). But is it even worth the cost in either talent or $? Again just a thought.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Frank_Thomas35

[Lillian]

The guy I want is still Chris Davis. He is exactly what this team needs, a left handed power bat, with a high OBP, and a history of success in the A.L.

You bat him right behind Abreu and the offense becomes very respectable. I know that there are statistical studies that refute the conventional

wisdom regarding "protection" for other hitters in the lineup, but you cannot convince me that Abreu would not see a lot more decent pitches, hitting in

front of Davis, vs. La Roche.

 

The more talked about route of acquiring an outfielder, to add more offense, doesn't make as much sense. The Sox have outfield depth. Two of our better

hitters are outfielders. Melky in LF, either Eaton or Thompson in CF, and either Avi or Thompson in RF provide an acceptable level of both offense and defense.

Then too, there is the emerging prospect of Adam Engel, joining the Big League club, in a couple years.

 

I understand that Davis would cost a draft pick, and that his contract would be a huge commitment, but he is the one impact bat that could really transform

the terrible offense the Sox put on the field last year, into a good offense. With a middle of the order consisting of Abreu, Davis, Cabrera and Lawrie, the team

could afford to live with light hitting from Saladino and Sanchez as their keystone combo. They have a solid leadoff man in Eaton, and catching should not be the

deep hole that it was with Flowers. The defense would be solid, as well.

 

Keeping the pitching in tact, with a significantly improved ability to score runs, would give the Sox a realistic shot at the playoffs, and once in the Post Season, you have to like a team with 3 top starters like Sale, Quintana and Rodon. Then too, there is the appeal of adding a hitter who can bring fans to the South Side. Davis is that

kind of player.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Lillian

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

The guy I want is still Chris Davis. He is exactly what this team needs, a left handed power bat, with a high OBP, and a history of success in the A.L.

You bat him right behind Abreu and the offense becomes very respectable. I know that there are statistical studies that refute the conventional

wisdom regarding "protection" for other hitters in the lineup, but you cannot convince me that Abreu would not see a lot more decent pitches, hitting in

front of Davis, vs. La Roche.

 

The more talked about route of acquiring an outfielder, to add more offense, doesn't make as much sense. The Sox have outfield depth. Two of our better

hitters are outfielders. Melky in LF, either Eaton or Thompson in CF, and either Avi or Thompson in RF provide an acceptable level of both offense and defense.

Then too, there is the emerging prospect of Adam Engel, joining the Big League club, in a couple years.

 

I understand that Davis would cost a draft pick, and that his contract would be a huge commitment, but he is the one impact bat that could really transform

the terrible offense the Sox put on the field last year, into a good offense. With a middle of the order consisting of Abreu, Davis, Cabrera and Lawrie, the team

could afford to live with light hitting from Saladino and Sanchez as their keystone combo. They have a solid leadoff man in Eaton, and catching should not be the

deep hole that it was with Flowers. The defense would be solid, as well.

 

Keeping the pitching in tact, with a significantly improved ability to score runs, would give the Sox a realistic shot at the playoffs, and once in the Post Season, you have to like a team with 3 top starters like Sale, Quintana and Rodon. Then too, there is the appeal of adding a hitter who can bring fans to the South Side. Davis is that

kind of player.

Lillian, I'm just not sure that outfield has enough pop. Right field is a big maybe with Avi and Trace. Easton could regress, maybe last year was an outlier. Plus any injury to Eaton, which we've seen before or Melky and it's curtains. I think Davis would be a great pickup, but I think we do need more before we get optimistic.

[caulfield12]

We're going to more than double the biggest contract in Sox history for yet another attempt at fixing the LH power problem?

 

Not seeing it. Davis is essentially three times more expensive than Nelson Cruz, and he's not the type of player who will increase attendance by name alone, either. Finally, there's the fact JR isn't willing to tack another $13 million on top of that to dump LaRoche. Buying players at that age coming off contract drive seasons for six to eight year deals just isn't the Sox way...not even for Sox heroes or homegrown players.

 

They want to roll the dice, it's going to have to be Puig, Cespedes, Gordon or Upton.

 

[Lillian]

We're going to more than double the biggest contract in Sox history for yet another attempt at fixing the LH power problem?

 

Not seeing it. Davis is essentially three times more expensive than Nelson Cruz, and he's not the type of player who will increase attendance by name alone, either. Finally, there's the fact JR isn't willing to tack another $13 million on top of that to dump LaRoche. Buying players at that age coming off contract drive seasons for six to eight year deals just isn't the Sox way...not even for Sox heroes or homegrown players.

 

They want to roll the dice, it's going to have to be Puig, Cespedes, Gordon or Upton.

 

Nelson Cruz was 5 years older than Davis will be, when he signed his contract with Seattle. Davis will be 30 in March. In today's market, he should be worth $25 Million per year, on a 7 year deal. The Orioles offered $150 Million, which Davis turned down and which Baltimore has since withdrawn. If the Sox could get him for $175 Million, for 7 years, which would represent his age 30, through 36 years, it seems "reasonable" in today's market.

 

The organization has no prospect who could realistically be projected to fill the need for a big, left handed power bat. If the Sox want to compete with the Cubs, for fan support, that is the sort of move that JR will have to make. The final year of La Roche's deal, is relatively of little significance, when contemplating that kind of financial commitment. Who cares what they do with him. Release him, if they have to.

[Lillian]

Lillian, I'm just not sure that outfield has enough pop. Right field is a big maybe with Avi and Trace. Easton could regress, maybe last year was an outlier. Plus any injury to Eaton, which we've seen before or Melky and it's curtains. I think Davis would be a great pickup, but I think we do need more before we get optimistic.

 

I understand your point, however don't you think that the issue of from where the "pop" comes is much less important than how much pop the lineup has? I think that is acceptable, as long as you get positive contributions from players, at their respective positions. It seems like a reasonable gamble to expect one of Avi or Trayce to emerge as a productive outfielder. They both have a lot of talent. Once you insert an offensive producer like Davis into the lineup, the power production from the outfield becomes less important.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

It seems like a reasonable gamble to expect one of Avi or Trayce to emerge as a productive outfielder. They both have a lot of talent.

I don't think Avi has hitting talent. Nor fielding for that matter. Trayce, I hope so, because I really liked him last year, but he's still unproven.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Al Lopez's Ghost

[caulfield12]

Nelson Cruz was 5 years older than Davis will be, when he signed his contract with Seattle. Davis will be 30 in March. In today's market, he should be worth $25 Million per year, on a 7 year deal. The Orioles offered $150 Million, which Davis turned down and which Baltimore has since withdrawn. If the Sox could get him for $175 Million, for 7 years, which would represent his age 30, through 36 years, it seems "reasonable" in today's market.

 

The organization has no prospect who could realistically be projected to fill the need for a big, left handed power bat. If the Sox want to compete with the Cubs, for fan support, that is the sort of move that JR will have to make. The final year of La Roche's deal, is relatively of little significance, when contemplating that kind of financial commitment. Who cares what they do with him. Release him, if they have to.

 

That number of years and dollars for Davis after what they gave Abreu (roughly 40%) will just never happen with JR as owner...you pay that kind of money for a franchise catcher, SS, 3B or outfielder who can hit and defend.

 

Davis is not close to the modern day equivalent of Albert Belle as a hitter.

Edited December 13, 2015 by caulfield12

[LDF]

That number of years and dollars for Davis after what they gave Abreu (roughly 40%) will just never happen with JR as owner...you pay that kind of money for a franchise catcher, SS, 3B or outfielder who can hit and defend.

 

Davis is not close to the modern day equivalent of Albert Belle as a hitter.

 

be that as it may, if all things stays the same, going into the convention for the sox, i really wonder how the sox will spin this. on top of that, i wonder how they will deal with a worst turnover in purchasing season tickets or weekend pkg.

 

are they going to say, this is a 3 yr plan and this is a minor set back or will they tell the truth, the sox have 2 contract of 28 mil and they want that off their books.

 

 

[caulfield12]

be that as it may, if all things stays the same, going into the convention for the sox, i really wonder how the sox will spin this. on top of that, i wonder how they will deal with a worst turnover in purchasing season tickets or weekend pkg.

 

are they going to say, this is a 3 yr plan and this is a minor set back or will they tell the truth, the sox have 2 contract of 28 mil and they want that off their books.

 

That's not even counting Cabrera and Robertson...

[LDF]

That's not even counting Cabrera and Robertson...

 

i think they can live with Robertson contract, everyone can see his productions.

 

now mekly, if he doesn't produce, he will be right up there with danks and laroche. the sox paid for the bottom line = production.

[BlackSox13]

Hmmm, 1 year of LaRoche at 13M or Davis for 7/150M+. I'm glad we have LaRoche because I'm not interested in signing the next Adam Dunn for that amount of years and money. Oh yeah, the 7/150M that the Orioles offered was pulled off the table probably because Boras wants even more. Sorry but Davis is a bad idea. I'll take LaRoche and hope for the best, thank you.

[fathom]

If Avi or Trayce get traded, I would love for Raburn to be brought in to platoon with LaRoche

[Bob Sacamano]

Hmmm, 1 year of LaRoche at 13M or Davis for 7/150M+. I'm glad we have LaRoche because I'm not interested in signing the next Adam Dunn for that amount of years and money. Oh yeah, the 7/150M that the Orioles offered was pulled off the table probably because Boras wants even more. Sorry but Davis is a bad idea. I'll take LaRoche and hope for the best, thank you.

 

Me too. What is the market for Davis? That guy should have taken the 7/150 when, it was on the table.

[Lillian]

Hmmm, 1 year of LaRoche at 13M or Davis for 7/150M+. I'm glad we have LaRoche because I'm not interested in signing the next Adam Dunn for that amount of years and money. Oh yeah, the 7/150M that the Orioles offered was pulled off the table probably because Boras wants even more. Sorry but Davis is a bad idea. I'll take LaRoche and hope for the best, thank you.

 

I don't view 1 year of LaRoche at 12.5M as anything to compare to 7/150M for Davis. One is a sunk cost, for basically a black hole, at a critical place in the lineup i.e; 1B/DH. The other is a close to market value deal, for one of the premier young sluggers in the game. The only reason to be happy about LaRoche's contract is that it only has one year to go. I wonder how many of us would hold that sentiment if Davis were signed to the proposed deal, in this discussion.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Lillian

[BlackSox13]

Me too. What is the market for Davis? That guy should have taken the 7/150 when, it was on the table.

I agree, Davis should have taken that offer and run. I haven't seen much about the market for Davis although I read something this morning about how the Nat's could be interested. I don't think there's a big market for Davis to be honest.

 

I don't view 1 year of LaRoche at 12.5M as anything to compare to 7/150M for Davis. One is a sunk cost, for basically a black hole, at a critical place in the lineup i.e; 1B/DH. The other is a close to market value deal, for one of the premier young sluggers in the game. The only reason to be happy about LaRoche's contract is that it only has one year to go. I wonder how many of us would hold that sentiment if Davis were signed to the proposed deal, in this discussion.

One thing to keep in mind is when signing a slugger at Davis' age (30 in March), the signing team is paying that slugger based on past performance. How long do you think Davis can perform before he starts his eventual decline? Davis profiles very similar to Adam Dunn. Do we really want or need 7 years of that nonsense? Davis' next contract has albatross written all over it and I hope/pray its not with the White Sox. Another downside to signing Davis is it keeps Melky in LF, sigh...

 

Imo, a better idea would be to try and sign Cespedes this year. After the '16 season things lineup up much better. LaRoche and Danks salaries will be off the books giving the Sox money to play with and two roster spots. At that point they can look to sign or trade for a 1B/DH type and possibly trade Melky.

Edited December 13, 2015 by BlackSox13

[bear_brian]

If we are going to go "all in", then I would think that signing Justin Upton to replace Avi in RF, and figuring out how to trade for Todd Frazier makes the most sense. It does not get us the big LH hitter, but we did not have that hitter in 2005 (unless you want to count Carl Everett). It does give us a much more productive lineup with better defense than last year. Yeah, we still have to keep LaRoche - but it is quite possible that he bounces back, at which point we have a very productive bunch of power hitters. The downside is obvious - sacrificing the rebuild for questionable short-term success. But we do have the starters to make that possible.

 

[SCCWS]

I actually disagree. The Sox were 5 wins away from .500 last year with the worst offense in the league. I think they just picked up at least 3 wins alone at 3B. Make a couple more marginal upgrades and they should battle for a 2nd wildcard honestly.

 

I think there are too many variables to think we will battle for a wildcard. So I feel we need more than a marginal upgrade. I think we need another starting pitcher--- 3/4 rotation guy. Many teams lose a starting pitcher for 2-3 months due to injury. Our starters were very healthy last year. EJ and Danks are both question marks going in and I don't know who takes over if we lose a starter for a period of time or the later two fail. I do think the offense will be better because a few guys like Laroche, Melky and Avi have room for improvement. A year of Jones helps in the pen. Our defense is worse at this point noting the offensive upgrade at 3rd. I think we are better at C but that remains to be seen.

 

So I think the Sox need to add a major bat and a 3/4 starter not just a marginal upgrade to even be in the talk for a 2nd WC.

 

[LDF]

I actually disagree. The Sox were 5 wins away from .500 last year with the worst offense in the league. I think they just picked up at least 3 wins alone at 3B. Make a couple more marginal upgrades and they should battle for a 2nd wildcard honestly.

 

i can see what you are thinking, but think about this, this way. yes, improve to get those wins that may get the sox into the wildcard, but making some improvements. now do you not think that the other teams will not also make improvements and adjustment to their club as well. they will be moving that goal line every time they add and subtract players to their team.

Edited December 14, 2015 by LDF

[Balta1701]

If Avi or Trayce get traded, I would love for Raburn to be brought in to platoon with LaRoche

I think you can expect his season OPS to drop by 50 points solely due to not facing us.

[BigFinn]

How would you feel about a trade with San Diego: Adam LaRoche for James Shields. The Sox take on a big contract, but Shields is a still serviceable 3/4 starter. I don't think LaRoche is serviceable anymore.

[caulfield12]

How would you feel about a trade with San Diego: Adam LaRoche for James Shields. The Sox take on a big contract, but Shields is a still serviceable 3/4 starter. I don't think LaRoche is serviceable anymore.

 

Shields will take away whatever remaining payroll flexibility we have to add a big bat.

 

Not that the odds are that great of doing so.

 

It would ONLY make much sense if you were trading away Quintana to support your offense, then adding Shields as essentially your #3 after Sale and Rodon.

 

Still not sure what he has left in the tank, though. His stuff has degraded considerably from 2013.