Buehrle>Wood Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Wow that price is a steal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 07:16 PM) I think Hayward's defensive value decreases with his move to the Cubs. Wrigely doesn't have a lot of real estate in the outfield, which limits some of Heyward's defensive upside. That said @ 23M a year, I can't argue this deal one bit from the Cubs perspective. They have a nice window and they are Didn't the Cubs also set a MLB record for strikeouts in a season by their pitching? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 01:13 PM) If the White Sox went on a run, similar to that of the Angels in the 2000's, I think they would quickly grow in popularity / dominance. I don't think it takes sustained world series, it takes a world series along with sustained playoff contention (and playoff appearances). The Sox had shots to capitalize but could never actually put that consistent run of getting into the playoffs together. You look back over the Ken Williams era (as GM / president) and I can think of very few cases where the actual record was better than the perceived talent level. I can think of a hell of a lot of situations where the actual record was worse than the perceived talent level. Not sure what that means. Bad roster architect, bad luck, poor coaching or what, but that is a pretty long-term trend that has popped up during Kenny's time at the helm. Possible, but I don't think a long playoff run would do it. I think sox fans would become like the atlanta fans where playoff game wouldn't even sellout because they weren't satisfied with the lack of world series wins. Sox fans have a long history of looking for excuses to not support the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 I think the best move for the White Sox is a trade for Gonzalez. Then Cespedas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 That's a really solid contract, especially if it contains an opt out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Ah you guys and upgrading the OF....just let Avi Garcia drop those catchable balls. It's much more entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 11:18 AM) Possible, but I don't think a long playoff run would do it. I think sox fans would become like the atlanta fans where playoff game wouldn't even sellout because they weren't satisfied with the lack of world series wins. Sox fans have a long history of looking for excuses to not support the team. The Braves have averaged 2.7M fans over the past 25 years. The White Sox averaged 2M fans in that same span. From 05 to 08 (1 World Series and 1 Other PLayoff Performance) they averaged 2.6M. Within that range the Sox had a 90 win club that didn't make the playoffs and than a really disappointing 72 win club. In reality, the Sox are probably in a different place had the new wild card rules been in effect. I don't know exactly, but I think we'd have quite a few more appearances in that 2000 - 2009 window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconOnAStick Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Possible, but I don't think a long playoff run would do it. I think sox fans would become like the atlanta fans where playoff game wouldn't even sellout because they weren't satisfied with the lack of world series wins. Sox fans have a long history of looking for excuses to not support the team. It wouldn't really help. The Cubs lost on purpose for 5 years, let everyone know it, and the Sox still couldn't put even a dent in their dominance over the area. That's the problem with playing in a concrete sarcophagus (totally Sox fault) at 35th & Shields (not the Sox fault). The White Sox cling to the roughly 50/50 split they share with the Cubs in the city itself, but it's highly unlikely that survives a Cubs championship. You saw how the Blackhawks went from 2,000 people a night to over a million turning out for the parade? The Cubs will make that look like nothing. Chicago is a bandwagon sports town, and for the last 20 years it's been storing energy for a Cubs blowout that will boggle your mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 11:15 AM) 184/8 is not bad at all, find it hard to believe no one offered 200M, and if someone did I find it even harder to believe that Heyward would leave that much on the table. I think the Nats supposedly offered it. That said, while the Nats are talented, with all the clubhouse saga's you heard of, would you really want to spend the next 8 years committed their? I'm surprised he left the Cards to be honest (if they were offering similar money). Maybe he just wants to play in a large market and have a shot at being a hero (if you win the series with the Cubs, you'll be a legend and be able to eat and entertain in chicago for free for life). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 01:14 PM) I think the Rays are the only other team who has a better chance of moving. They still don't have a stadium deal, so they? I seriously wouldn't be surprised if we lost the White Sox. Name another team in MLB with a future as bleak as ours. Keep in mind... most other teams don't have to deal with a juggernaut in the same city. And the ones that do (Mets, Angels, etc) actually compete. The MLB would never allow the White Sox to move away from Chicago. It's not happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetkincaid Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 01:27 PM) The MLB would never allow the White Sox to move away from Chicago. It's not happening. Why not? Because of the TV deals and attendance? You watch how that suffers the next couple of years as the cubs continue in this direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 8/184 is a good contract for at least the first half. The second half of the contract may not look as good, but time will tell. The best thing about the deal is that it lowers some of the expectation of contracts for Upton, Cespedes, etc. Hopefully we'll see some rumblings about those guys soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 01:27 PM) I think the Nats supposedly offered it. That said, while the Nats are talented, with all the clubhouse saga's you heard of, would you really want to spend the next 8 years committed their? I'm surprised he left the Cards to be honest (if they were offering similar money). Maybe he just wants to play in a large market and have a shot at being a hero (if you win the series with the Cubs, you'll be a legend and be able to eat and entertain in chicago for free for life). I think it is the opposite he did not want to be the face of the franchise and hero. He will never do what Rizzo and Bryant do and will never surpass them in fan adoration in the city of Chicago. Going into next season he will behind both of them and Schwarber on the offensive side of the things and potentially Zobrist. He will also be behind Lester and Arrieta in popularity. Maddon is as popularity as any of them. I think the NL will be getting much tougher and the cub pitching will be exposed. Although I do not see Heyward in center as a much greater upgrade over Fowler but that is just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 01:31 PM) 8/184 is a good contract for at least the first half. The second half of the contract may not look as good, but time will tell. The best thing about the deal is that it lowers some of the expectation of contracts for Upton, Cespedes, etc. Hopefully we'll see some rumblings about those guys soon. Chris Davis just kicked his dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 01:33 PM) Chris Davis just kicked his dog. He'll probably be accepting the $150MM deal from the O's soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 01:35 PM) He'll probably be accepting the $150MM deal from the O's soon. Orioles pulled it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 01:30 PM) Why not? Because of the TV deals and attendance? You watch how that suffers the next couple of years as the cubs continue in this direction. I think you should take a deep breath and crack a beer. Things will be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 11:36 AM) Orioles pulled it. Mixed reports to whether it was ever out their. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 01:30 PM) Why not? Because of the TV deals and attendance? You watch how that suffers the next couple of years as the cubs continue in this direction. Because Chicago is big enough to support two teams. There isn't an obviously better TV market that needs a team. And I get called out for being critical of the White Sox. They belong in Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 01:36 PM) Orioles pulled it. Oh, I didn't know that. Then yes, he's currently kicking his dog...and all of the neighbors' dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 01:25 PM) The Braves have averaged 2.7M fans over the past 25 years. The White Sox averaged 2M fans in that same span. From 05 to 08 (1 World Series and 1 Other PLayoff Performance) they averaged 2.6M. Within that range the Sox had a 90 win club that didn't make the playoffs and than a really disappointing 72 win club. In reality, the Sox are probably in a different place had the new wild card rules been in effect. I don't know exactly, but I think we'd have quite a few more appearances in that 2000 - 2009 window. I agree but I just don't see it being enough to get over the cubs, something atlanta doesnt need to deal with until college football begins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Two opt-outs in the deal, including one after year 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 01:26 PM) It wouldn't really help. The Cubs lost on purpose for 5 years, let everyone know it, and the Sox still couldn't put even a dent in their dominance over the area. That's the problem with playing in a concrete sarcophagus (totally Sox fault) at 35th & Shields (not the Sox fault). The White Sox cling to the roughly 50/50 split they share with the Cubs in the city itself, but it's highly unlikely that survives a Cubs championship. You saw how the Blackhawks went from 2,000 people a night to over a million turning out for the parade? The Cubs will make that look like nothing. Chicago is a bandwagon sports town, and for the last 20 years it's been storing energy for a Cubs blowout that will boggle your mind. I dont think it's the ballpark. Its really a great place to watch a game. I think it's sox fans in general look for excuses not to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knackattack Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 11:49 AM) Two opt-outs in the deal, including one after year 3 So he spends 3 years at Wrigley boosting those HR numbers when the wind is blowing out and hits the market as a 29 yr old power bat CF'er and lands a 250M deal... smart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 01:49 PM) Two opt-outs in the deal, including one after year 3 And that's why he took less than $200 million, although Joe Maddon will be the reason everyone else claims he took "less" money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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