Francelis Montas' Value

[Y2Jimmy0]

Most people always say that a starting pitcher is more valuable than a relief pitcher. I almost always agree with that premise. Many people don't think that Montas can start (no 3rd pitch, bad command, body type). I think there's a chance he could be really good as a late inning reliever though. After seeing the deals for Ken Giles and Craig Kimbrel, would the White Sox be better off using Montas in the big league bullpen this year or letting him start at Charlotte? Isn't there a chance that Montas could be as dominating out of the pen as someone like Giles?

[BaconOnAStick]

I've advocated putting him in the pen and just getting it over with. They don't give the trophy to the team with the most value.

[BlackSox13]

Imo, Montas is just 22 and should have a chance to fail as a starter before moving to the pen. To date, Montas has not failed as a starter and should be in Charlotte's rotation in '16. Again, he's just 22! Have a little patience Sox fans.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Imo, Montas is just 22 and should have a chance to fail as a starter before moving to the pen. To date, Montas has not failed as a starter and should be in Charlotte's rotation in '16. Again, he's just 22! Have a little patience Sox fans.

 

 

I'm patient enough. But he has 45 command and no 3rd pitch.

[BlackSox13]

I'm patient enough. But he has 45 command and no 3rd pitch.

So at 22 years old you're writing off his command and under-developed changup?

[BaconOnAStick]

Its extremely important that Frank Montas builds as much value as possible so the Sox can trade him away for the next position player about to fall off a cliff.

[Blackout Friday]

I've actually been thinking he and Nate could form a nasty duo.

 

I'm sure I'm not alone. Not exactly a creative thought. But it doesn't mean he will never be a SP, either.

[LDF]

Its extremely important that Frank Montas builds as much value as possible so the Sox can trade him away for the next position player about to fall off a cliff.

 

what is the matter with you, did someone piss in your eggnog???

 

why all the negative, can you imagine the sox fo take our comments to run a multi million dollar business.

[BaconOnAStick]

what is the matter with you, did someone piss in your eggnog???

 

why all the negative, can you imagine the sox fo take our comments to run a multi million dollar business.

I just get tired of the VALUE VALUE VALUE mentality and how the Sox should be more concerned about nurturing trade value than winning some freaking baseball games for the first time since 2012.

 

If Frank Montas the bullpen pitcher can help this team win a very winnable AL Central then he should be up here in that capacity.

 

[Balta1701]

Every time I see a thread or comment like this about Montas my brain flashes back to a pitcher Arizona had named Max Scherzer. Big fastball but had some inconsistency, lost a couple mph one year, walked 40 people in 74 innings his first stop at AA, "his delivery means he may not hold up as a starter long term". Probably motivated Arizona to let him go for Ian Kennedy.

 

150 innings at AAA this year as a starter and anything else is shooting yourself in the foot. If he has to move to the pen at some point, let that be after doing everything right with him on the road as a starter. If you've got a guy with top of the rotation stuff, put him on a path to be at the top of the rotation when he's 27. Don't sabotage that path out of some ludicrous fantasy that we're one middle reliever away.

[BaconOnAStick]

It's ludicrous fantasy to expect the White Sox to win games for a change, but not ludicrous fantasy to expect Frank Montas to develop into a Cy Young winner.

[Blackout Friday]

Every time I see a thread or comment like this about Montas my brain flashes back to a pitcher Arizona had named Max Scherzer. Big fastball but had some inconsistency, lost a couple mph one year, walked 40 people in 74 innings his first stop at AA, "his delivery means he may not hold up as a starter long term". Probably motivated Arizona to let him go for Ian Kennedy.

 

150 innings at AAA this year as a starter and anything else is shooting yourself in the foot. If he has to move to the pen at some point, let that be after doing everything right with him on the road as a starter. If you've got a guy with top of the rotation stuff, put him on a path to be at the top of the rotation when he's 27. Don't sabotage that path out of some ludicrous fantasy that we're one middle reliever away.

I think the general consensus with Frankie is to try him as a starter, and hopefully have him develop a half decent changeup

 

A 100mph fb and good-to-plus slider makes for a nice backup plan, however.

 

The Sox know how to develop arms, and they will do so accordingly.

[BlackSox13]

I just get tired of the VALUE VALUE VALUE mentality and how the Sox should be more concerned about nurturing trade value than winning some freaking baseball games for the first time since 2012.

 

If Frank Montas the bullpen pitcher can help this team win a very winnable AL Central then he should be up here in that capacity.

Lol, the aren't even hurting for bullpen help and really don't need Montas in the pen. They need position players more than anything.

 

Danks contract is off the books after '16. It would be nice to have two options in Fulmer/Montas to fall back on to cover the open starting spot, instead of just one option in Fulmer.

[Balta1701]

Lol, the aren't even hurting for bullpen help and really don't need Montas in the pen. They need position players more than anything.

 

Danks contract is off the books after '16. It would be nice to have two options in Fulmer/Montas to fall back on to cover the open starting spot, instead of just one option in Fulmer.

The rumors we've heard also make it sound like they don't have a lot of confidence in EJ either.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Fair points in this thread. Elite closers are being way overvalued by teams. That's the only reason why I asked.

[BaconOnAStick]

Lol, the aren't even hurting for bullpen help and really don't need Montas in the pen. They need position players more than anything.

 

Danks contract is off the books after '16. It would be nice to have two options in Fulmer/Montas to fall back on to cover the open starting spot, instead of just one option in Fulmer.

Hey! An argument that's centered around what Montas can do for the White Sox! I like it. That makes sense, that may be a plan that has Montas winning games for the White Sox. Not a plan for him to get traded or live up to a completely unrealistic player comparison.

 

[BlackSox13]

The rumors we've heard also make it sound like they don't have a lot of confidence in EJ either.

Good point Balta. Arent the Sox rumored to be looking for a RHP?

[BlackSox13]

Hey! An argument that's centered around what Montas can do for the White Sox! I like it. That makes sense, that may be a plan that has Montas winning games for the White Sox. Not a plan for him to get traded or live up to a completely unrealistic player comparison.

Right on. I admit I have entertained the idea of trading Montas for position player help but I do prefer to keep him and see how he develops. Especially after seeing the ludicrous money thrown at pitchers this year.

[TheFutureIsNear]

A lot of Sox players get overrated on this board, but for whatever reason Montas gets underrated. Seems like everybody is just waiting for him to fail...but he keeps delivering. He's a top 50 prospect in all of baseball heading into this season as a starter with a 98 mph fastball. As a 22 year old with a huge fastball that just has to harness his location a bit (doesn't have a walk problem by any means) and improve his changeup he's doing pretty damn well in my opinion.

 

With all that said I still see him as good trade chip right now. If we can get a good OF/3B under 30 with control for at least 3 years I'd do it for Montas + filler prospects outside the top 12. I like EJ more than most so I think we have 4 rotation spots full already for the forseeable future with Fulmer and Adams knocking on the door as soon as the season after next. We need more hitting talent, it's going to have to come from our pitching depth 1 way or another eventually. Montas seems like the best option in my eyes if we aren't going to trade Q.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Right on. I admit I have entertained the idea of trading Montas for position player help but I do prefer to keep him and see how he develops. Especially after seeing the ludicrous money thrown at pitchers this year.

 

Everything that Balta and Blacksox said 100%. I don't mean to make this personal but what's wrong with you guys who want Montas in the BP this year. This year doesn't mean a damn thing. If we are going to give some of these young guys a chance then let's really give them a chance to be what they can be. The Sox don''t need instant value or gratification for Montas they need him to be a starter. A lot of you seem to believe in Fulmer and Adams why not Montas ? Is it because you actually know more about Montas and because of that the shine has worn off ? Fulmer and Adams have a long way to go before they reach Montas' level.

 

The Sox look they they are trying to build an elite starting pitching staff controllable for years so they can compete for years. Maybe in 2/3 years that staff will be Sale, Q, Rodon, Montas, Eric Johnson, Carson Fulmer and Spencer Adams . That's 7 guys ,4 of which are unknown qualities atm. There's a decent chance half of those 4 fail as starters . When that happens then great, try them in the pen. None of the 4 are no where near failure as starters yet. Montas has at least a good 2 years to try to succeed as a starter and he has progressed rapidly in he minors. Why shouldn't he have the chance to keep developing ? It may slow down some as the competition becomes stronger but that's the natural progression of pitching.

 

This may come as a shock to some of you but winning might have to wait a few years . Maybe, just maybe ,the Sox think in that 2 years they can get the offense and defense to a place where it can to a blessing to the pitching instead of a curse.

[LDF]

A lot of Sox players get overrated on this board, but for whatever reason Montas gets underrated. Seems like everybody is just waiting for him to fail...but he keeps delivering. He's a top 50 prospect in all of baseball heading into this season as a starter with a 98 mph fastball. As a 22 year old with a huge fastball that just has to harness his location a bit (doesn't have a walk problem by any means) and improve his changeup he's doing pretty damn well in my opinion.

 

With all that said I still see him as good trade chip right now. If we can get a good OF/3B under 30 with control for at least 3 years I'd do it for Montas + filler prospects outside the top 12. I like EJ more than most so I think we have 4 rotation spots full already for the forseeable future with Fulmer and Adams knocking on the door as soon as the season after next. We need more hitting talent, it's going to have to come from our pitching depth 1 way or another eventually. Montas seems like the best option in my eyes if we aren't going to trade Q.

 

the way the state of this system is, imho, no one should be untouchable. granted it is perceived that the fo do have a game plan, unlike any in the past, including last yr. that game is based, imo on a retool of this ball tame while trying to maintain some sort of a fiscal budget.

 

now, the org / ballclub needs players / prospects that will step in, in a yr or 2, the only way to do that is to trade player they already have. players that can help bring in multi players, those players are anderson, montas kind of players.

 

so unless trading one of them helps in bringing in a really good, max rtn that is needed or will help, forgot about it.

[caulfield12]

Everything that Balta and Blacksox said 100%. I don't mean to make this personal but what's wrong with you guys who want Montas in the BP this year. This year doesn't mean a damn thing. If we are going to give some of these young guys a chance then let's really give them a chance to be what they can be. The Sox don''t need instant value or gratification for Montas they need him to be a starter. A lot of you seem to believe in Fulmer and Adams why not Montas ? Is it because you actually know more about Montas and because of that the shine has worn off ? Fulmer and Adams have a long way to go before they reach Montas' level.

 

The Sox look they they are trying to build an elite starting pitching staff controllable for years so they can compete for years. Maybe in 2/3 years that staff will be Sale, Q, Rodon, Montas, Eric Johnson, Carson Fulmer and Spencer Adams . That's 7 guys ,4 of which are unknown qualities atm. There's a decent chance half of those 4 fail as starters . When that happens then great, try them in the pen. None of the 4 are no where near failure as starters yet. Montas has at least a good 2 years to try to succeed as a starter and he has progressed rapidly in he minors. Why shouldn't he have the chance to keep developing ? It may slow down some as the competition becomes stronger but that's the natural progression of pitching.

 

This may come as a shock to some of you but winning might have to wait a few years . Maybe, just maybe ,the Sox think in that 2 years they can get the offense and defense to a place where it can to a blessing to the pitching instead of a curse.

 

 

If you can rely on any of Sale/Q/Rodon/Abreu/Eaton not getting hurt, sure.

 

Heck, a year ago we would have seen more Danish and Hawkins talk, along with Avi and Micah as well. Heck, Webb was going to be the closer of the future, too.

 

The fact of the matter is that with all the uncertainty surrounding Thompson, Saladino, Sanchez and EJ, they almost have to hit with two out of three from Anderson, Fulmer and Adams. Anything less than that success rate before 2018 and the balance of the scale is tipping towards rebuilding again...as much as that will hurt in the middle of their media/broadcasting rights early negotiating window.

 

If they do pass on Gordon, Cespedes and Upton in favor of fiscal responsibility after wasting so much the last 2-3 seasons...then there's no choice but trading Sale or Quintana and hoping for a return like Cliff Lee, Phillips and Sizemore....the Teix to ATL deal or even Escobar/Cain for Greinke. It's just doubtful our divided front office can pull it off because by the time they have reached consensus, another team will already have exploited our hesitation and used it to their advantage. Right now, they seem more concerned with leveraging some profit out of a sunk cost in LaRoche than competing in Year Two.

Edited December 13, 2015 by caulfield12

[LDF]

If you can rely on any of Sale/Q/Rodon/Abreu/Eaton not getting hurt, sure.

 

Heck, a year ago we would have seen more Danish and Hawkins talk, along with Avi and Micah as well. Heck, Webb was going to be the closer of the future, too.

 

The fact of the matter is that with all the uncertainty surrounding Thompson, Saladino, Sanchez and EJ, they almost have to hit with two out of three from Anderson, Fulmer and Adams. Anything less than that success rate before 2018 and the balance of the scale is tipping towards rebuilding again...as much as that will hurt in the middle of their media/broadcasting rights early negotiating window.

 

If they do pass on Gordon, Cespedes and Upton in favor of fiscal responsibility after wasting so much the last 2-3 seasons...then there's no choice but trading Sale or Quintana and hoping for a return like Cliff Lee, Phillips and Sizemore....the Teix to ATL deal or even Escobar/Cain for Greinke. It's just doubtful our divided front office can pull it off because by the time they have reached consensus, another team will already have exploited our hesitation and used it to their advantage. Right now, they seem more concerned with leveraging some profit out of a sunk cost in LaRoche than competing in Year Two.

 

but people will not understand or is in complete denial, the sox will not do anything, b/c of lack of funds, but they don't want to dip into built in profits margin.

[Flash Tizzle]

Absolutely ridiculous not to give Montas atleast a full season worth of innings as a starter in AAA before deciding his role. If we're lucky to have both Fulmer and Montas ready to start for 2017 we'll be in a tremendous position to trade one or more starters. Next years FA SP market is abysmal.

 

 

[BlackSox13]

Absolutely ridiculous not to give Montas atleast a full season worth of innings as a starter in AAA before deciding his role. If we're lucky to have both Fulmer and Montas ready to start for 2017 we'll be in a tremendous position to trade one or more starters. Next years FA SP market is abysmal.

Bingo! This is spot on. After '16 if Montas and Fulmer both are ready, the Sox could trade Q for a haul giving the Sox a '17 rotation of Sale, Rodon, Fulmer, Montas, EJ. Let's not forget about kids like Adams and Guerrero that could progress in the mean time and possibly make EJ expendable before the '18 season.

 

This is why I prefer,if possible, to hold off on trading Q or Sale for one more year to see how Montas and Fulmer progress along with Adams and Guerrero behind them. And like you said, next years FA pitching looks abysmal.