How much more work left to do?

[caulfield12]

Let's take the opposite approach.

 

Anderson's ROY in 2017, Fulmer's rookie pitcher of the year in 2016 and Rodon's in the Top Five for Cy Young balloting next year as well.

Montas is the equivalent of Herrera/healthy Joel Zumaya.

 

You still need some breaks. The overuse of the cutter not to wear down Robertson's effectiveness by 2018. You will need to replace Cabrera and Lawrie and the only long-term projections you can make are with Anderson, Eaton and Abreu. With no catcher in sight, you're still looking at that position, 3b (Trey M.), two of the outfield positions (unless Hawkins miraculously figures things out...and also where Upton would come in handy as he would still be 29 in 2018), DH and possibly 2b depending on what happens with Sanchez and Micah Johnson.

 

With no Upton and Hawkins...it's hard to imagine where the power is going to come from. Trading Adams? Maybe an international signing from Asia or more likely Cuba?

 

Logically, they would fill in those spots with cheap but elite defenders like Rondon and maybe Engel but it's going to continue to be a struggle offensively. It's just so hard with all the position player flops to imagine Anderson as an All-Star and also count on 3-4 more positions to be handled via internal options. We know that from Thompson, Saladino, Sanchez, Trey and Micah we'll be fortunate to have one starter among them in 2018.

 

Trading Sale or Quintana seems to be the only solution to getting a more balanced offense since they're not going to continue to try to spend their way to one like last offseason.

[LDF]

Let's take the opposite approach.

 

Anderson's ROY in 2017, Fulmer's rookie pitcher of the year in 2016 and Rodon's in the Top Five for Cy Young balloting next year as well.

Montas is the equivalent of Herrera/healthy Joel Zumaya.

 

You still need some breaks. The overuse of the cutter not to wear down Robertson's effectiveness by 2018. You will need to replace Cabrera and Lawrie and the only long-term projections you can make are with Anderson, Eaton and Abreu. With no catcher in sight, you're still looking at that position, 3b (Trey M.), two of the outfield positions (unless Hawkins miraculously figures things out...and also where Upton would come in handy as he would still be 29 in 2018), DH and possibly 2b depending on what happens with Sanchez and Micah Johnson.

 

With no Upton and Hawkins...it's hard to imagine where the power is going to come from. Trading Adams? Maybe an international signing from Asia or more likely Cuba?

 

Logically, they would fill in those spots with cheap but elite defenders like Rondon and maybe Engel but it's going to continue to be a struggle offensively. It's just so hard with all the position player flops to imagine Anderson as an All-Star and also count on 3-4 more positions to be handled via internal options. We know that from Thompson, Saladino, Sanchez, Trey and Micah we'll be fortunate to have one starter among them in 2018.

 

Trading Sale or Quintana seems to be the only solution to getting a more balanced offense since they're not going to continue to try to spend their way to one like last offseason.

 

they, the sox FO has a game plan, we, as fans do not know what the plan is. the other thing is, what will the owners allow hahn do to fix this problem, as well as putting a competitive team on the field.

 

the ideal solution would be, not to trade any of the sp in the rotation . but who knows what the sox will do,.

[daggins]

They need an OF and and IF and pitching depth. There are many open avenues.

[oldsox]

they, the sox FO has a game plan, we, as fans do not know what the plan is. the other thing is, what will the owners allow hahn do to fix this problem, as well as putting a competitive team on the field.

 

the ideal solution would be, not to trade any of the sp in the rotation . but who knows what the sox will do,.

not convinced.

[WBWSF]

If Johnson comes through for the team in 2016 the White Sox can have one of the best rotations in MLB. Sale, Quintana, Rodon and Johnson is a very good rotation to have. If Fulmer does well the first part of 2016 in the Minor Leagues he might become the 5th starter by the All Star break. Why waste this type of pitching? As Bill Veeck once said "The future is Now". Acquire at least one more big bat through free agency (Upton) and hopefully the team will score enough runs to get the team into the 2016 Playoffs. If Hahn is expecting La Roche to bat cleanup for the team and be productive it's going to be another long season the South Side of Chicago. Hahn has added 2 catchers and a third baseman. He has upgraded those 2 positions. The team should be better offensively with those 3 players. The team needs one more big bat. Lets do it this offseason.

[caulfield12]

With the team as currently constituted projected in the 75-80 win territory...is there anyone who disagrees?

 

1) AL Central a tad weaker with Gordon, Zobrist, Price and Cespedes gone and only Zimmermann added.

2) Cabrera, Eaton and LaRoche can't start that poorly again...theoretically.

3) Sale, Rodon and EJ have room to improve.

 

Otoh, we had nearly 100% health last season. A major injury to Cabrera, Eaton, Lawrie, Abreu, Q, Sale, Rodon or Robertson would put the team behind the 8 ball. Other than DH and 2b, we're seriously lacking in depth. Going to Beck or Turner in April would probably end up with disastrous results.

 

They have to add another OF bat like Upton, shake things up with a trade or gamble on Desmond. Sitting on all those picks isn't going to help until it's too late because we are probably stuck in that 12-18 range over the next two seasons in the first round and Hahn will be out of a job by the time they make any appreciable impact. With the lack of free agent hitters next offseason, can they really afford to punt two more seasons away and be in an even worse position financially to make the necessary changes before 2018?

[caulfield12]

If Johnson comes through for the team in 2016 the White Sox can have one of the best rotations in MLB. Sale, Quintana, Rodon and Johnson is a very good rotation to have. If Fulmer does well the first part of 2016 in the Minor Leagues he might become the 5th starter by the All Star break. Why waste this type of pitching? As Bill Veeck once said "The future is Now". Acquire at least one more big bat through free agency (Upton) and hopefully the team will score enough runs to get the team into the 2016 Playoffs. If Hahn is expecting La Roche to bat cleanup for the team and be productive it's going to be another long season the South Side of Chicago. Hahn has added 2 catchers and a third baseman. He has upgraded those 2 positions. The team should be better offensively with those 3 players. The team needs one more big bat. Lets do it this offseason.

 

Lawrie and Avila haven't been able to stay healthy.

 

Upton alone doesn't make us a playoff team without at least one more dangerous hitter in that lineup. KC had Perez and Gordon hitting 7th and 8th against lefties down the stretch. Those guys would be hitting 3/5 for the White Sox with Abreu in the cleanup spot. Just not enough balance or contact....no threats on the basepaths/terrible baserunning and an improved defensive team but still bottom third in the majors.

 

Will believe in Erik Johnson when the team puts 100% faith in him as well.

Edited December 13, 2015 by caulfield12

[Saufley]

If Johnson comes through for the team in 2016 the White Sox can have one of the best rotations in MLB. Sale, Quintana, Rodon and Johnson is a very good rotation to have. If Fulmer does well the first part of 2016 in the Minor Leagues he might become the 5th starter by the All Star break. Why waste this type of pitching? As Bill Veeck once said "The future is Now". Acquire at least one more big bat through free agency (Upton) and hopefully the team will score enough runs to get the team into the 2016 Playoffs. If Hahn is expecting La Roche to bat cleanup for the team and be productive it's going to be another long season the South Side of Chicago. Hahn has added 2 catchers and a third baseman. He has upgraded those 2 positions. The team should be better offensively with those 3 players. The team needs one more big bat. Lets do it this offseason.

 

LaRoche. We have hearsd speculation that last year LaRoche had a hand injury. True or not? If he did and will be healed this year we can hope for improvement from his bat. We can hope but there must also be that backup plan.

I would still like to see the addition of Upton but again, will the FO be allowed to spend the big bucks?

,

[Dick Allen]

Lawrie and Avila haven't been able to stay healthy.

 

Upton alone doesn't make us a playoff team without at least one more dangerous hitter in that lineup. KC had Perez and Gordon hitting 7th and 8th against lefties down the stretch. Those guys would be hitting 3/5 for the White Sox with Abreu in the cleanup spot. Just not enough balance or contact....no threats on the basepaths/terrible baserunning and an improved defensive team but still bottom third in the majors.

 

Will believe in Erik Johnson when the team puts 100% faith in him as well.

Hopeless again. Until JR sees his GM needs a varsity letter in HS baseball, this team is screwed.

 

Perez wouldn't bat 5th for the White Sox.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

What reason do we really have to believe that Hahn is even an average judge or evaluator of baseball talent?

 

He's missed badly on Avi, Duke, Davidson, LaRoche, Keppinger, Bonifacio, Beckham (second time), Paulino, Cabrera, Downs and Belisario.

 

Soto, Montas (who many now want to trade), Eaton...those have worked out well, and then Abreu, who was pushed mostly by KW and Paddy.

 

Robertson...jury is far from out on whether overpaying a veteran closer for three consecutive non-playoff appearances will be worth it when they could have punted him back to NY last year.

 

Oh, and finally the Samardzija debacle...and completely misreading the team and trade market in June/July last year.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

LaRoche. We have hearsd speculation that last year LaRoche had a hand injury. True or not? If he did and will be healed this year we can hope for improvement from his bat. We can hope but there must also be that backup plan.

I would still like to see the addition of Upton but again, will the FO be allowed to spend the big bucks?

,

He definitely had an injury, how much that could be blamed on his bad year no one knows one thing to keep in mind, the previous season he had the second best walk rate and the second best k rate years of his career, so it does seem odd he would just fall off a cliff. There should be some bounce back. He had a bad injury plagued season before producing almost the same numbers in a smaller sample size and came back huge. I wouldn't expect that, but I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out what the Sox thought he would be in 2016.

[caulfield12]

Hopeless again. Until JR sees his GM needs a varsity letter in HS baseball, this team is screwed.

 

Perez wouldn't bat 5th for the White Sox.

 

 

You're right. He would hit third.

 

Eaton, Cabrera, Perez, Abreu, Gordon, Lawrie, Thompson, Saladino, Sanchez.

 

Based on 2011-2014, that would be the most logical line-up. It's exactly the kind of team we would need to win with defensively...and pitching-wise.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

You're right. He would hit third.

 

Eaton, Cabrera, Perez, Abreu, Gordon, Lawrie, Thompson, Saladino, Sanchez.

 

Based on 2011-2014, that would be the most logical line-up. It's exactly the kind of team we would need to win with defensively...and pitching-wise.

Yeah a guy with 2 consecutive years with a OBP less than .290 hitting 3rd. You must not have played varsity baseball.

[caulfield12]

Fine. You can hit Gordon third and Perez fifth.

 

Although I'm sure you will argue the new and improved Lawrie or LaRoche should be there instead. Maybe Gordon's OBP numbers are still too low?

 

Lawrie has similar OBP numbers and isn't as good an overall hitter, especially compared to others at his position.

[Dick Allen]

Fine. You can hit Gordon third and Perez fifth.

 

Although I'm sure you will argue the new and improved Lawrie or LaRoche should be there instead. Maybe Gordon's OBP numbers are still too low?

 

Lawrie has similar OBP numbers and isn't as good an overall hitter, especially compared to others at his position.

I don't really care where you pencil in Perez or Gordon to the White Sox line up since they won't be on the team, but Sal Perez wouldn't bat 3rd or 5th. He is about a .700 OPS guy.his offensive game has been in decline for a few years now and he is still young.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

I don't really care where you pencil in Perez or Gordon to the White Sox line up since they won't be on the team, but Sal Perez wouldn't bat 3rd or 5th. He is about a .700 OPS guy.his offensive game has been in decline for a few years now and he is still young.

 

 

Like Lawrie, except he's the most important player on his team in terms of leadership, not unlike Molina in St. Louis.

 

Btw, an area the White Sox have been sorely lacking since the departures of Buehrle and Konerko, unless you're counting LaRoche's Christian outreach efforts...

[Chicago White Sox]

Ugh, caulfield is back for 48 hours and has already turned this place into a Royals suckfest.

 

Leadership isn't our problem, it's a lack of positional talent.

[TheFutureIsNear]

We still need 3 above average MLB hitters who can field their positions reasonably well. Not impossible, but I'm doubting the FO sees it that way. And we need to do that while losing as few prospects as possible.

 

Sign Upton or Cespedes

Sign 1 of Kendrick, Freese, Murphy, Matsuda, Desmond

Trade Montas, Engel, and Leyer for Charlie Blackmon

Get rid of Laroche and some of his salary somehow

 

Not impossible, just highly unlikely

 

[Bob Sacamano]

We still need 3 above average MLB hitters who can field their positions reasonably well. Not impossible, but I'm doubting the FO sees it that way. And we need to do that while losing as few prospects as possible.

 

Sign Upton or Cespedes

Sign 1 of Kendrick, Freese, Murphy, Matsuda, Desmond

Trade Montas, Engel, and Leyer for Charlie Blackmon

Get rid of Laroche and some of his salary somehow

 

Not impossible, just highly unlikely

 

I forgot which analyst was talking about it, but whoever it was mentioned that Matsuda may be open to signing a one year deal to come play over here just to get the experience of living in the US and playing MLB and then figuring out if he wants to stay over here or go back to Japan next offseason. Could be an interesting 1 year option.

[BlackSox13]

Well this thread went to hell quickly. Eh, why bother...

[SCCWS]

Ugh, caulfield is back for 48 hours and has already turned this place into a Royals suckfest.

 

Leadership isn't our problem, it's a lack of positional talent.

How do you know that??? As a fan, I don't think we really know that much about the clubhouse. We hear cliches about winning cures everything but unless there are fights like Philly had, I doubt we really know if a team has leadership issues or not. Heck, we thought AJ was a leader in the clubhouse and Boston cut him loose because he was considered a detriment to there's in 2014.

 

[caulfield12]

The next wave consists of Dexter Fowler, Gerardo Parra, Denard Span and Austin Jackson, although Jackson has been trending in the wrong direction of late. Fowler is the only one of the four who received a qualifying offer and will require the team that signs him to surrender a draft pick. He is also likely to be the most expensive; one baseball insider estimated that he's looking at a deal in the three-year, $42 million range. The third wave (or two) includes Will Venable, Rajai Davis, Alex Rios, David Murphy, Steve Pearce, Shane Victorino, Ryan Raburn and Jeff Francoeur, all of whom have something to offer without necessarily being 500-at-bat-a-year guys.

 

The Chicago White Sox appear set in the outfield with Melky Cabrera in left field, Adam Eaton in center and Avisail Garcia in right. That said, the Sox ranked last in the American League with 622 runs and a .686 team OPS in 2015. Can they stand idly by and let Upton or Cespedes sign elsewhere with an offense that sad?

 

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14342400...outfield-market

The most creative idea is turning Ian Desmond into Ben Zobrist or Chone Figgins, essentially...and playing him all over the field.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dick Allen]

How do you know that??? As a fan, I don't think we really know that much about the clubhouse. We hear cliches about winning cures everything but unless there are fights like Philly had, I doubt we really know if a team has leadership issues or not. Heck, we thought AJ was a leader in the clubhouse and Boston cut him loose because he was considered a detriment to there's in 2014.

It appears Abreu is trying to become a leader. We also don't know if it is a problem. When teams win, so and so was a great leader. The fact is team's win when players play well. To me it is like team chemistry. If the White Sox win a lot of games next year someone will be called a great leader. There are guys who are great leaders on crappy teams a well. As was stated, improve the positional talent and the question about leadership, if there really is one, goes away or someone becomes the great leader by default,

 

 

[caulfield12]

I forgot which analyst was talking about it, but whoever it was mentioned that Matsuda may be open to signing a one year deal to come play over here just to get the experience of living in the US and playing MLB and then figuring out if he wants to stay over here or go back to Japan next offseason. Could be an interesting 1 year option.

 

Then you have to move Lawrie to 2b where we actually have some depth and turn around and find another 3b or move Lawrie back again in 2017...

 

Not helping much in terms of building towards 2018.

[fathom]

If they go into the season with LaRoche and Avi starting, they will have incredibly short leashes. Same goes with Ventura. Also no doubt they will add another quality bat in the next month.