How much more work left to do?

[Bob Sacamano]

Then you have to move Lawrie to 2b where we actually have some depth and turn around and find another 3b or move Lawrie back again in 2017...

 

Not helping much in terms of building towards 2018.

 

I don't think this team is trying to build for 2018. If that were the case, trade everyone now for close to MLB ready prospects.

[fathom]

I don't think this team is trying to build for 2018. If that were the case, trade everyone now for close to MLB ready prospects.

 

Yep Frazier and Cargo wouldn't be trade targets

[Bob Sacamano]

Plus signing cheap short term stop gaps is a way to help build for the future. Just like other rebuilding teams in the past, we may have someone producing early on and then trading in June/July.

[caulfield12]

Plus signing cheap short term stop gaps is a way to help build for the future. Just like other rebuilding teams in the past, we may have someone producing early on and then trading in June/July.

 

That hasn't worked well at all the last two seasons.

[Lip Man 1]

How much work is left to do?

 

Depends on your perspective.

 

If you think the Sox can "contend" in 2016 then they still have a boatload of holes and needs that have to be upgraded on probably a limited budget because of an expected drop in season ticket sales.

 

If you think they are still biding their time perhaps for 2017 or 2018 when some of their highly regarded prospects may be ready, than they are probably close to being done.

 

Mark

[caulfield12]

How much work is left to do?

 

Depends on your perspective.

 

If you think the Sox can "contend" in 2016 then they still have a boatload of holes and needs that have to be upgraded on probably a limited budget because of an expected drop in season ticket sales.

 

If you think they are still biding their time perhaps for 2017 or 2018 when some of their highly regarded prospects may be ready, than they are probably close to being done.

 

Mark

 

It would be pretty much unprecedented in recent Sox history.

 

We followed up competing in 2010 with Adam Dunn. I'd even say last offseason was a bit of an aberration, in the sense that they were trying to "fast forward" or jump start the competitive cycle without having the revenue bump from 2013 to justify the new spending (other than the idea that season tickets were going to be up around 1,500 a game in 2015, the rationale for adding Cabrera at the time).

 

Assuming we're going to see a net loss of 3,000-4,000 tickets (1500-2500 per game overall down) heading into the season without adding something significant (Frazier OR Desmond and Chris Davis/Upton/Cespedes/Gordon), it's just nearly impossible to imagine committing to two more long-term salaries that would end up being higher than the average for the Abreu deal if you added them together in aggregate.

 

It's also just as difficult to see Hahn giving up on Anderson or Fulmer for a two-year rental already in his 30's in Frazier (who would be adjusting to a new league to boot).

[fathom]

Dan Hayes on Twitter tonight saying the Sox could be done adding if trade prices don't go down. Absolutely inexcusable if this is true, but I doubt it is. Hahn can't bash our offense like he did last week (after Lawrie) and turn around and do nothing to help it

[Baron]

Dan Hayes on Twitter tonight saying the Sox could be done adding if trade prices don't go down. Absolutely inexcusable if this is true, but I doubt it is. Hahn can't bash our offense like he did last week (after Lawrie) and turn around and do nothing to help it

 

I doubt that's true. But if it indeed happened...the amount of backlash from not only the fans but probably from the other executives will be huge.

[caulfield12]

The problem is what "non-rental or two years before FA" player is out there that Hahn could justify trading Fulmer and/or Anderson for and not completely short circuit the rebuilding process like the Samardzija move/non-move in July partially did?

 

If they weren't trying to compete 100% in 2016, it's even more inexcusable to have kept Robertson's salary on the payroll when the Sox actually could have gotten something back for him last year from the Yankees.

 

Puig would have made sense before the off-season hit, but now the Dodgers pretty much have to keep him because the possible net return has been pushed so low...Jose Fernandez? Matt Harvey? Well, that doesn't address the offense. And it's just as inconceivable to imagine trading for Giancarlo Stanton and JR taking on that amount of salary.

 

There's just too much risk involved trading Anderson OR Fulmer for someone like CarGo and then turning around and seeing the payroll bloated even further. We've already added Lawrie and Avila's injury risk/s, and Eaton is always in danger of going down the way he plays the game.

 

What seems most likely is the addition of a Parra, Travis Snider or Austin Jackson "placeholder" move in the OF...even then, many aren't convinced Hahn's 100% ready to throw in the towel on Avi Garcia, unfortunately.

Edited December 14, 2015 by caulfield12

[BlackSox13]

There has been a few of us that have been saying we don't expect alot due to the payroll, bad contracts ( LaRoche/ Danks/Melky) and a farm that doesn't have enough disposable talent for trades. I hope were wrong but I would not be in the least bit surprised if what Hayes says turns out to be true.

 

 

[fathom]

There has been a few of us that have been saying we don't expect alot due to the payroll, bad contracts ( LaRoche/ Danks/Melky) and a farm that doesn't have enough disposable talent for trades. I hope were wrong but I would not be in the least bit surprised if what Hayes says turns out to be true.

 

Hahn should have probably not mentioned how bad the offense was then. His job should be on the line also this year, IMO. As currently constructed, the Sox are in the bottom 3 of the AL with Oakland and Tampa.

Edited December 14, 2015 by fathom

[caulfield12]

I doubt that's true. But if it indeed happened...the amount of backlash from not only the fans but probably from the other executives will be huge.

 

KW hopefully has learned to keep his mouth shut about not spending $1 for Upton/Cespedes/Gordon/Davis/Desmond when you only have 50 cents.

 

Well, the reason you only have 50 cents is because of a series of bad moves and mismanagement that has accrued over time to the point where you're stuck in neutral with no clear direction in sight.

 

Even if you somehow managed to win the bidding for one of those names, the odds of bringing in two impact players without damaging the farm system significantly are about zero unless you're willing to roll the dice and trade Sale or Q.

[Baron]

KW hopefully has learned to keep his mouth shut about not spending $1 for Upton/Cespedes/Gordon/Davis/Desmond when you only have 50 cents.

 

Well, the reason you only have 50 cents is because of a series of bad moves and mismanagement that has accrued over time to the point where you're stuck in neutral with no clear direction in sight.

 

Even if you somehow managed to win the bidding for one of those names, the odds of bringing in two impact players without damaging the farm system significantly are about zero unless you're willing to roll the dice and trade Sale or Q.

 

I dont think it'll just be Kenny wondering what the hell is going on when we win the same amount of games last year

[Baron]

Hahn should have probably not mentioned how bad the offense was then. His job should be on the line also this year, IMO. As currently constructed, the Sox are in the bottom 3 of the AL with Oakland and Tampa.

 

Exactly...when they asked he is satisfied with the offense he should have said yes then.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Baron

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Dan Hayes on Twitter tonight saying the Sox could be done adding if trade prices don't go down. Absolutely inexcusable if this is true, but I doubt it is. Hahn can't bash our offense like he did last week (after Lawrie) and turn around and do nothing to help it

Sign Upton.

Sign Cespedes

Trade Anderson for Frazier.

 

Legit contender.

[caulfield12]

Sign Upton.

Sign Cespedes

Trade Anderson for Frazier.

 

Legit contender.

 

Who is the owner of that team?

Trump? Jerry Jones or Daniel Snyder?

 

I don't even think Anderson alone would be enough for Frazier...for CarGo, yes. Trading for declining iconic/franchise players who are overvalued because of their marketing value in those cities just doesn't seem like the best idea in the world.

 

If they're going to do that, I'd almost rather they took a huge risk and brought in Aroldis Chapman, Puig and Cespedes and created one of the most interesting teams in the history of the game...as opposed to our current status of being one of the most boring/irrelevant teams in the league.

Edited December 14, 2015 by caulfield12

[fathom]

Hell no to Chapman and Puig

[Bob Sacamano]

Dan Hayes on Twitter tonight saying the Sox could be done adding if trade prices don't go down. Absolutely inexcusable if this is true, but I doubt it is. Hahn can't bash our offense like he did last week (after Lawrie) and turn around and do nothing to help it

 

It would be so underwhelming if they couldn't pull off anymore moves. I'm someone who goes to about 15 games a year (yes even when they've been bad over last 3 years) but it would be hard to justify going to that many this upcoming year, despite tickets being so cheap and easy to get.

[caulfield12]

Haha...well, only Jerry Jones would be making that move anyway.

 

We did have Wil Cordero, Albert Belle, Manny Ramirez, Jaime Navarro, D'Angelo Jimenez, etc.

[fathom]

I really liked the Puig idea for a while, and it still intrigues me, but I think he has one too many red flags attached at this point, plus his injury history.

 

He seems like just a horrible teammate. Also think his skills have already diminished.

[caulfield12]

I really liked the Puig idea for a while, and it still intrigues me, but I think he has one too many red flags attached at this point, plus his injury history.

 

But can you imagine Eaton, Lawrie, Abreu, Cespedes, Puig and Sale in one clubhouse together?

 

At least Ventura would be earning his money like Mattingly did in LA with guys like Kemp, Greinke, Hanley Ramirez and Puig on the same roster.

 

 

If they didn't end up stuck with LaRoche and could get a similar subsidy to the Thome deal...Hanley Ramirez would even start to make sense.

 

And that's getting scary. And just hitting everyday compared to 3B or LF should prevent some of the injury problems.

Edited December 14, 2015 by caulfield12

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Who is the owner of that team?

Trump? Jerry Jones or Daniel Snyder?

JR's group is the owner and he has brought the franchise to it's current condition. If he wants to fix it, he can by opening the team's wallet and signing the two big bats along with acquiring Frazier for 3B.

 

Whether he's willing or not is another issue.

 

If they truly can't afford it, then it's time the team is sold to someone who can.

[Balta1701]

I really liked the Puig idea for a while, and it still intrigues me, but I think he has one too many red flags attached at this point, plus his injury history.

At the very least, right now you have to wait because the MLB domestic violence response is literally unprecedented. The rule is brand new and has yet to be used. Until you have some context for how at-risk you are for losing him for months/a season+ if there are multiple issues, you have to leave him with the Dodgers.

[caulfield12]

He seems like just a horrible teammate. Also think his skills have already diminished.

 

The prevailing theory is that he's bulked up way too much and also lost X percentage of his fast-twitch muscle memory...and his bat speed has also slowed significantly from 2013-14.

 

It's more of a conditioning/work ethic issue than anything.

 

Sosa went through the same transition, albeit a chemically-enhanced one.

[Balta1701]

JR's group is the owner and he has brought the franchise to it's current condition. If he wants to fix it, he can by opening the team's wallet and signing the two big bats along with acquiring Frazier for 3B.

 

Whether he's willing or not is another issue.

 

If they truly can't afford it, then it's time the team is sold to someone who can.

Just remember, the plan last year was to "acquire big names via trade and open the team's wallet for big bats". This was also not the first time we had tried that plan. Those who do not learn from history...