southsider2k5 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 10:26 AM) Can we stop acting like because we missed out on the Big 3 that all of Hahn's plans fail to come to fruition? He targeted Lawrie and Frazier and got those done. What was he supposed to do here? There was no way we were going to pry away Gordon or Cespedes unless we grossly overpaid, and Upton didn't want to come here. There isn't nearly enough petulant temper tantrum in this post. I am going to ignore these facts and rant on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Lock at 400? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 This signing makes me wonder if people will actually ask some hard questions at SoxFest about the "three year plan." I sure hope some people step up and ask some legitimate questions. I would like to know what the coaching staff and FO really sees in Avi and not just some bulls*** coming out of KW's mouth. I'd also like to get a full understanding about Hahn's philosophy about maintaining the farm system and acquiring veterans because I am not positive he is on the same wavelength with KW in trading all prospects for vets. I think the real loss this offseason is Thompson and hope they will be able to fill his void in the minors through the draft. That being said, I'd call the offseason a success if they got a veteran outfielder like Austin Jackson, didn't surrender any picks, let Saladino play shortstop and didn't overpay like someone will for Fowler (and someone did for Cespedes). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 11:04 AM) Again, just 1 year ago two guys signed here with higher offers elsewhere. I think the whole "players don't want to come here" is way overblown. Exactly. If Cuddyer doesn't retire, or if the Royals don't come off their lowball offer, or don't make another 8th inning comeback and beat the Astros, the Sox IMO have one of those guys. With Upton going to Detroit, does anyone really think if the Sox offered him $150 million and 6 years, Illich wouldn't have topped that? Once Detroit was locked in, there was no chance. He pays what he has to pay and doesn't care about the budget. That is all fine and dandy with the fans, but the day of reckoning will occur. His heirs are probably a little antsy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (MuckFinnesota @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 11:08 AM) This signing makes me wonder if people will actually ask some hard questions at SoxFest about the "three year plan." I sure hope some people step up and ask some legitimate questions. I would like to know what the coaching staff and FO really sees in Avi and not just some bulls*** coming out of KW's mouth. I'd also like to get a full understanding about Hahn's philosophy about maintaining the farm system and acquiring veterans because I am not positive he is on the same wavelength with KW in trading all prospects for vets. I think the real loss this offseason is Thompson and hope they will be able to fill his void in the minors through the draft. That being said, I'd call the offseason a success if they got a veteran outfielder like Austin Jackson, didn't surrender any picks, let Saladino play shortstop and didn't overpay like someone will for Fowler (and someone did for Cespedes). I hope ther is some intelligent questioning. I will be there, but am a bit afraid the Hahn/Ventura session is going to turn into a top that Meathead contest. Last year was a love fest, so I guess the fans even though they will never admit it, were just as dumb as the Sox. Edited January 23, 2016 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) almost 400 pages and 6000 posts and I am adding to it. I think we can do just as much to help this team be a winner by signing a player or two to cheaper contracts then pay out the absolutely bank busting salaries that Cespedes, Davis, Upton and Heyward have been signed to. No one player is worth that kind of money. It takes a full 25 player team to win Edited January 23, 2016 by elrockinMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 11:06 AM) There isn't nearly enough petulant temper tantrum in this post. I am going to ignore these facts and rant on. No worries. These things blow over pretty quick after folks find something new to rant about. I'll just go ahead and say that Dexter Fowler will be the next rant victim for some Sox fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (flavum @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 11:07 AM) Lock at 400? Absolutely. It won't take much useless spamming, trolling and thread derailing to make it happen. Take post #5965 for example. Edited January 23, 2016 by BlackSox13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (flavum @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 08:50 AM) Short of giving him 5/110 of guaranteed money, the Sox probably didn't have much of a chance after the Mets entered the picture. I'm glad he's not coming to the Sox. I think Jackson and Desmond on short term contracts have a chance to work out. Bring in hungry, high character guys and hope they and some other guys (Cabrera and LaRoche) can bounce back while Eaton, Frazier and Abreu can put up All-Star seasons. The Sox probably aren't making the playoffs this year, but if they're trying to re-create 2005 in 2016, they would at least have a shot with a couple more veterans. I'm not sure even 5/110 guaranteed would have got it done now. His original demands were 6/150. He seemed really intent on getting $25M AAV and i figured all along he's end up back in the NL somewhere to feast on the pitching of all those teams rebuilding. That way he increases his chances of having another big year and getting that $25M AAV after the opt out for longer terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 11:31 AM) No worries. These things blow over pretty quick after folks find something new to rant about. I'll just go ahead and say that Dexter Fowler will be the next rant victim for some Sox fans. I haven't thrown a temper tantrum yet, but signing Fowler would send me over the edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmooncreeping Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 08:41 AM) Yeah I don't want to give up anything of value for Blackmon or Dickerson. Idk I guess it depends. Then you won't be getting either of those guys. Young, accomplished outfielders are going to cost something of value. It's not like the Rockies aren't happy with either guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas_Ventura_Roberts Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 It seems like he got a lot of money per year for someone who had one very good year and some good years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmooncreeping Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox1917 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 10:06 AM) Are you kidding? We really couldn't match the Mets offer for Cespedes? Honestly, what was the point in even trading for Frazier if not to actually try and field a full roster capable of making the playoffs? We have the worst outfield in the league. And pay the guy $28 million for next year? Hell no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 11:44 AM) I haven't thrown a temper tantrum yet, but signing Fowler would send me over the edge. No worries, the cubs will take care of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmooncreeping Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 10:13 AM) He sure does, a three year one! Surely you remember hearing about that. Kenny Williams explained it to us all in great detail last June when he was trying to explain a way the horrid baseball that had been played up to that point in the season. And now as we inch closer to starting Year Two of said three year plan, as things stand now, given the abject failure of being able to be competitive in the marketplace for premium available talent, we find ourselves staring at Cabrera in left, Avi in right, Salidino at short, and LaRoche at DH. Those are some big holes. We are currently running below average in nearly half of our lineup, and it's January 23. Our options now to improve are on the second and third tier of the free agent market, the same lane we shopped in last winter that brought us Cabrera and LaRoche. Or trade some of our better but now limited supply of minor league talent to bring in appropriate upgrades. All because somehow the so-called brain trust in the front office set completely unrealistic terms for being competitive for the top talent out there. The big spender teams were no where to be found, and the Sox still couldn't get the job done. Very disappointing, to say the least. Maybe, just maybe, there is the proverbial rabbit still to be pulled from the hat at the last hour that will allow this team to compete this year. I hope so, at least to address two of those gaping holes currently in the lineup. Otherwise Year Two of the big plan doesn't project to be a whole lot better than Year One, not by much, anyway. While technically true (no Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc.), it didn't matter that the big spenders weren't in the mix--the big dollars were. Missing out on paying 27.5 million bucks for 1 year of Cespedes is blessing, not a failure. I wanted the guy, but not anywhere near that price tag. I think they thought the market would be less because the traditional deep pocket teams weren't in the mix--that is their failure imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Alright, Lets get this b**** to 400 and lock 'er down before Chisoxfn goes on a mega thread rampage LAST CALL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 12:00 PM) Alright, Lets get this b**** to 400 and lock 'er down before Chisoxfn goes on a mega thread rampage LAST CALL f*** that, I say we just merge every thread on the front page of PHT into this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 12:59 PM) While technically true (no Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc.), it didn't matter that the big spenders weren't in the mix--the big dollars were. Missing out on paying 27.5 million bucks for 1 year of Cespedes is blessing, not a failure. I wanted the guy, but not anywhere near that price tag. I think they thought the market would be less because the traditional deep pocket teams weren't in the mix--that is their failure imo. Then all of the angst in September about losing enough so that the Sox would have a protected first round pick really was all for nought, since we didn't take the opportunity to grab a top notch talent without having to surrender that pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox1917 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 04:06 PM) Are you kidding? We really couldn't match the Mets offer for Cespedes? Honestly, what was the point in even trading for Frazier if not to actually try and field a full roster capable of making the playoffs? We have the worst outfield in the league. ok lets think of this, this way. think of the big plan. at this point, what will be the sox alternative motive???? to appear to do something, why, soxfest and to make an appeal to the fans on "look we tried, it was too much, we do not have the budget for that kind of money". also look at where the salary is today.... at this moment. this is just like the sox plus a little more coy about doing this than the teams of the 90.s.... i am waiting for the org to throw out a couple of reclamation projects, one in the OF and the other as a SP. all this, at this time if nothing else is done, is smoke, to make it look as they were trying to do something. but i as a die-hard have to live with it, as a white sox fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 11:04 AM) Again, just 1 year ago two guys signed here with higher offers elsewhere. I think the whole "players don't want to come here" is overblown. Did you read my post? I mentioned the struggles that our newcomers partly played into the decisions of this current FA class, money is a huge factor of course, but the organization and its support system that they could provide to the players absolutely matters as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 11:38 AM) I'm not sure even 5/110 guaranteed would have got it done now. His original demands were 6/150. He seemed really intent on getting $25M AAV and i figured all along he's end up back in the NL somewhere to feast on the pitching of all those teams rebuilding. That way he increases his chances of having another big year and getting that $25M AAV after the opt out for longer terms. The pint of staying in the nl especially with ateam for whom he had success is agood one. That one year opt out could really help boost the value for next year when there will be fewer options. Its actually a good business decision. Edit: I really suck at typing on these screen keyboards. I don't think I've ever had a post without gross typos. Edited January 23, 2016 by ptatc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjm676 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Hopefully, this pushes the thread to 400. If Sox didn't Yoenis, I'm glad he went back to the Mets. He just wanted to stay there. Nothing Sox could have done. As for Desmond, please no. If they are serious about getting another SS, why not just keep Alexei at $4M and sign or trade for another OF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez's Ghost Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (bjm676 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 01:03 PM) Hopefully, this pushes the thread to 400. If Sox didn't Yoenis, I'm glad he went back to the Mets. He just wanted to stay there. Nothing Sox could have done. As for Desmond, please no. If they are serious about getting another SS, why not just keep Alexei at $4M and sign or trade for another OF. I'm not the only person here who thinks Alexei was starting to suck - the free agent market seems to support this -and Desmond has been a much better player over the last 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (bjm676 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 01:03 PM) Hopefully, this pushes the thread to 400. If Sox didn't Yoenis, I'm glad he went back to the Mets. He just wanted to stay there. Nothing Sox could have done. As for Desmond, please no. If they are serious about getting another SS, why not just keep Alexei at $4M and sign or trade for another OF. Alexei is not available anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saufley Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 11:20 AM) I hope ther is some intelligent questioning. I will be there, but am a bit afraid the Hahn/Ventura session is going to turn into a top that Meathead contest. Last year was a love fest, so I guess the fans even though they will never admit it, were just as dumb as the Sox. Dick, If the opportunity presents itself, what will you be asking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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