Cespedes Re-signs with the Mets

[Y2Jimmy0]

I didn't think this board could be worse than twitter. I was wrong.

[blackmooncreeping]

Sarcasm aside. At least I think it is, as a little better than Sheldon at picking it up. They are better. Selling out now for a winner this year just puts them on the same path and position they are in today

Cespedes is only $$ tho, in a non salary cap sport. With big dollars coming off the books next year. How is signing Cespedes a sellout? I could see a draft pick was involved, or we were trading prospects for an older player...but a straight purchase, as it were, doesn't define 'sellout' to me.

 

[Jose Abreu]

I didn't think this board could be worse than twitter. I was wrong.

Yoenis cesPAYdes #NBAVote

[ptatc]

Yes actually, I'll take a World Series win every 11 or 12 years, because the organization hasn't shown the ability to be able to put together a year-in, year-out playoff contender...ever. The idea of building from within for a sustained period of success is a great notion, but it doesn't fit the reality of what this front office has done over the past however many years.

Ok. I know you understand it but the people who are complaining that they have only made one playoff appearance in the last decade need to understand it. You cant have a consistent playoff contender and go for it every year. They are mutually exclusive. The go for it every year philosophy depletes resources and means they will need to start over.

 

And I'm not saying that signing cespdes to the long term deal wont produce a winner in the next few years. I'm saying that I wouldn't do it because it will lead to another dry spell if it fails. You think people were on the FO for the 4vyear Dunn deal, imagine if the deal for cespedes is 6 years.

[ptatc]

Cespedes is only $$ tho, in a non salary cap sport. With big dollars coming off the books next year. How is signing Cespedes a sellout? I could see a draft pick was involved, or we were trading prospects for an older player...but a straight purchase, as it were, doesn't define 'sellout' to me.

Only if the deal is longer than 4 years. If its only 4 it would work. I know there is no MLB cap but we know the ownership has one and if cespedes is dead money for 3 years it will cripple the finances.

[caulfield12]

The Royals overpaid Ian Kennedy by at least $20 million over 5 years but they're only paying him $20 million the next two seasons and don't care as much about the $50 million due from 2018-2020.

 

Gordon is only making $28 million as well (but $38 million plus a $4 million buyout for 2018/19/20).

 

You have to maximize your window.

 

 

We keep saying you can't cripple yourself with long-term contracts, but the Royals still have a four year window despite:

 

1) Signing Alex Rios to a big one year contract last year that was a huge bust

2) One of the least productive free agent signings in history in Omar Infante

3) Season-ending injury to Jason Vargas

4) Complete lack of effectiveness out of another bigger pitching contract in Guthrie

5) Having to cover for most of the season with Dyson/Paulo Orlando

6) Relatively ineffective seasons out of Ventura and Duffy

 

 

It's almost like paralysis by analysis. The White Sox have made a lot of mistakes and therefore...risk assessment/cost-benefit analysis mode, we're turning into a team that CPA's will certainly appreciate but not one a baseball fan probably will.

 

They're too afraid to make another big mistake...and tentative because that would cripple them and force a selloff. Well, going into the season with the roster as currently comprised is basically just "living on a prayer" to quote Jon Bon Jovi.

Edited January 19, 2016 by caulfield12

[Thad Bosley]

Only if the deal is longer than 4 years. If its only 4 it would work. I know there is no MLB cap but we know the ownership has one and if cespedes is dead money for 3 years it will cripple the finances.

You are a terrific poster on this site, and I enjoy your many contributions. On the bolded, though, may I ask how you know this? How could one LT contract for someone of Cespedes' caliber, with none other like it on the roster and with all of the VERY team-friendly contracts currently on the books, how could this one potential contract possibly "cripple" the team's finances? What happens if Cespedes' contributions translate into a return to the postseason in the way his presence on the Mets did last year? Won't that go a long ways towards paying off the investment?

 

Just because we've been conditioned by the current owner/management team to just automatically shun all investments of this kind, doesn't make them all bad. Sometimes you have to take a risk or two in the name of trying to win. You can't wait around to build an entire roster of team-friendly contracts to get there. Cespedes is still young enough to make this kind of investment worthwhile which, at least in the early years of the contract, should help management achieve it's stated objective of "maximizing its opportunity to return to the postseason with the current core".

 

There are ways to deal with the remaining years of an expensive contract if players begin not performing to the levels for which they are being paid. We see that happen all the time. But with the additions of Lawrie and Frazier, how does not bringing Cespedes into the fold now make no sense?

Edited January 19, 2016 by Thad Bosley

[caulfield12]

If it's over $100 million and 4 years, that's probably the dividing line.

It's pretty much irrelevant if the White Sox are afraid to extend it to four years anyway...

 

At the very least, they should be able to come up with four years and an opt-out after 2 just to be in the game.

 

Otherwise, the rest of MLB is laughing at us and the Padres for overpaying last year so much and now being suddenly afraid to dip our toes back into the water.

[ptatc]

You are a terrific poster on this site, and I enjoy your many contributions. On the bolded, though, may I ask how you know this? How could one LT contract for someone of Cespedes' caliber, with none other like it on the roster and with all of the VERY team-friendly contracts currently on the books, how could this one potential contract possibly "cripple" the team's finances? What happens if Cespedes' contributions translate into a return to the postseason in the way his presence on the Mets did last year? Won't that go a long ways towards paying off the investment?

 

Just because we've been conditioned by the current owner/management team to just automatically shun all investments of this kind, doesn't make them all bad. Sometimes you have to take a risk or two in the name of trying to win. You can't wait around to build an entire roster of team-friendly contracts to get there. Cespedes is still young enough to make this kind of investment worthwhile which, at least in the early years of the contract, should help management achieve it's stated objective of "maximizing its opportunity to return to the postseason with the current core".

 

There are ways to deal with the remaining years of an expensive contract if players begin not performing to the levels for which they are being paid. We see that happen all the time. But with the additions of Lawrie and Frazier, how does not bringing Cespedes into the fold now make no sense?

I haven't been conditioned by the ownership to believe anything. Im going by their track record. If they sign a player to a 22 million dollar deal, that is about 1/6 of the maximum payroll we've seen them use. Do you really want that much money tied up in a player that is this inconsistent? I would not. It wouldn't be a big deal if they had a 200 million dollsr payroll, but I wouldn't bet on that happening.

 

Im just using common sense and their track record. Its not the only way to solve this problem but in my view its the better way. They could just spending away ala Ilitch but I dont think its likley to happen. If they were spending this money on Miguel c abrera or Mike trout or someone with a track record it would be a different story.

Edited January 19, 2016 by ptatc

[BlackSox13]

Only if the deal is longer than 4 years. If its only 4 it would work. I know there is no MLB cap but we know the ownership has one and if cespedes is dead money for 3 years it will cripple the finances.

No doubt. The contracts of Danks and Dunn turned into albatrosses pretty quick. Even LaRoche's short two year contract has hindered the financial flexibility after the first year of the contract, lol. The Sox unwillingness to go long term with Cespedes could be a sign that they have learned from their past mistakes, I hope. It's time for the Sox to stop signing bad contracts and start making wiser decisions.

Edited January 19, 2016 by BlackSox13

[Thad Bosley]

I haven't been conditioned by the ownership to believe anything. Im going by their track record. If they sign a player to a 22 million dollar deal, that is about 1/6 of the maximum payroll we've seen them use. Do you really want that much money tied up in a player that is this inconsistent? I would not. It wouldn't be a big deal if they had a 200 million dollsr payroll, but I wouldn't bet on that happening.

 

Im just using common sense and their track record. Its not the only way to solve this problem but in my view its the better way. They could just spending away ala Ilitch but I dont think its likley to happen. If they were spending this money on Miguel c abrera or Mike trout or someone with a track record it would be a different story.

We need them to move off said "track record". Said "track record" has resulted in one brief playoff appearance in the last decade, and in teams which have driven the organization into the ground in terms of fan interest. Last in all MLB teams in TV ratings and 27th in attendance, and boy oh boy, don't try and lay all the blame for that on the Hawk. He only reacts to what we've all seen year in and year out in recent years.

 

This team cannot and should not, in my opinion, go the long term route of trying to build this thing slowly from the ground up. That's what's called a rebuild, and management has been very clear they are not going to do that. And that's fine and very understandable given the quality and quantity of the existing core. The problem has been what's surrounding the core, which has been exceptionally below average the past few years. With no help in sight from the farm system, fortunately or unfortunately, they are somewhat at the mercy of the market to help elevate this team to contending status. It's a predicament they are in of their own doing. It's not entirely bad, given the current state of the Sox' finances. This team is perfectly capable of bringing on the market value of Yoenis Cespedes' worth. To do so would not be in line with their quote unquote "track record", but here's to ringing in NEW track records!

[caulfield12]

No doubt. The contracts of Danks and Dunn turned into albatrosses pretty quick. Even LaRoche's short two year contract has hindered the financial flexibility after the first year of the contract, lol. The Sox unwillingness to go long term with Cespedes could be a sign that they have learned from their past mistakes, I hope. It's time for the Sox to stop signing bad contracts and start making wiser decisions.

 

 

Then why would they keep putting "band-aids" on the core instead of prioritizing players with 4-6 years of control?

 

It's like we keep punting the football hoping to buy time for the minor leagues to start producing more impact players...but, in the meantime, how are we going to replace Frazier, catcher, SS, potentially 2B, DH and another two outfield spots all from inside the organization?

 

Anderson, clearly, is the plan for SS.

 

But if we can't afford the prices now on the FA market, you can't assume Frazier will sign a team-friendly contract any more than you could have assumed it about Shark (and that would have been ANOTHER huge disaster had a long-term extension been signed in late July).

 

 

Trey M., Anderson, mystery at catcher (no real strong possibilities in the pipeline even for 2018), Engel and May?

 

Lots of things can change and WILL change in two year's time. Obviously, as Avi's the longest tenured player on the current roster.

 

That said, it's hard to project ANYONE but Anderson and maybe Trey as major league regulars at this point in time.

[caulfield12]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseba...FTAG=YHF7e3228e

 

Dave Brown with cbssports.com argues passionately why a Cespedes signing is critical...the impetus is on the Sox to make a counter-move.

[Frank_Thomas]

What's the point in being filthy freaking rich if you're not going to spend it? Column on Tigers owner Mike Ilitch: http://yhoo.it/1Stf3z8

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/JeffPassan

 

Hope Jerry reads this..

Edited January 19, 2016 by Frank_Thomas35

[glangon]

Your move Hahn and Uncle Jerry.

 

Upton has signed with the Tiggers and Gordon has signed for the Queens, we now have to keep pace with them by either signing Cespedes or trading for Cargo.

 

As it sits, we are probably 4th in the league looking up to the Indians, the Tigers and the Royals. If Hahn and Kenny are saying the window is now, then they need to pony up to finance their plans.

 

We can't go into the season without a payroll of around $150 million and we need a big name bat to appease the fanbase.

 

Personally, I could have coped Upton signing with just about anyone else apart from the Tigers. IMO, this will force Hahn into action. If we are going to compete he has to act. The fanbase won't accept Garcia starting in Right Field, they won't accept another season without proper protection for Abreu, they won't accept the Royals and the Tigers signing two of the three big free-agent CF's without us signing the third.

 

Your move Hahn.

[caulfield12]

Frazier and Lawrie are going to make up 7 games on the Twins by themselves?

 

Buxton will be hurt again and we will have close to 100% health again?

 

Sano will have a sophomore slump?

 

Realistically, there's not much separation at all between CLE, Minny and the Sox. They each could finish 3rd or 5th.

Edited January 19, 2016 by caulfield12

[glangon]

Frazier and Lawrie are going to make up 7 games on the Twins by themselves?

 

Buxton will be hurt again and we will have close to 100% health again?

 

Sano will have a sophomore slump?

 

Realistically, there's not much separation at all between CLE, Minny and the Sox. They each could finish 3rd or 5th.

 

No but the addition of Navarro and the loss of Samardzija combined with the addition of Frazier and Lawrie will help to make up those 7 games.

 

That is the loss of Samardzija who got lit up for 4 runs or more in 17 out of his 32 starts.

 

 

[caulfield12]

No but the addition of Navarro and the loss of Samardzija combined with the addition of Frazier and Lawrie will help to make up those 7 games.

 

That is the loss of Samardzija who got lit up for 4 runs or more in 17 out of his 32 starts.

 

I don't think anyone knows what Erik Johnson will do, let alone the White Sox.

[glangon]

I don't think anyone knows what Erik Johnson will do, let alone the White Sox.

 

No, but it can't be any worse than Samardzija last year.

 

Also in the 6 starts that Johnson had last year, he never gave up more than 3 runs.

 

In the same timespan, Samardzija gave up 4 runs or more in 4 of the 6 starts to end the season, giving up a whopping 10 runs against Oakland.

 

I think Johnson will be a serviceable starter and if we get the John Danks that pitched in the second half of last season, we could have a solid rotation.

 

 

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

SoxFest will be very interesting this year if the Sox don't acquire a big name outfielder.

[caulfield12]

We always say that things will get uncomfortable...but the truth is Hahn + Co. has a gift for spinning and doing it in a way that's more ingenuous than Rongey.

 

In reality, the only one who ever bristles or loses patience when someone "speaks truth to power" is KW.

 

I would enjoy his face when someone points out the smallest market team in baseball has given out two contracts in less than a month that are bigger than the largest the White Sox have given out in 120 years.

 

Probably something terse about how bad those contracts will eventually turn out...but will KC fans care if they make the playoffs the next two seasons? Will White Sox fans appreciate fiscal responsibility but more 3rd place or 4th place finishes? After all, the White Sox are first and foremost in the entertainment business. If this were a tv show, it would be pulled off the air.

Edited January 19, 2016 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

No, but it can't be any worse than Samardzija last year.

 

Also in the 6 starts that Johnson had last year, he never gave up more than 3 runs.

 

In the same timespan, Samardzija gave up 4 runs or more in 4 of the 6 starts to end the season, giving up a whopping 10 runs against Oakland.

 

I think Johnson will be a serviceable starter and if we get the John Danks that pitched in the second half of last season, we could have a solid rotation.

Starting on Sept. 1, Samardzija pitched 32 innings, Johnson pitched 35. Over that stretch, Johnson gave up 49 baserunners and 8 home runs, Samardzija gave up 42 baserunners and 6 HR.

 

Johnson had more strikeouts which helped his setup, but for EJ that's a WHIP of 1.4 when he was getting a lot of balls put in play. At the very least, if he does that same kind of performance this year it won't be long before he's giving up 4+ runs in most of his starts.

 

Again, rookie, needs work, can't project much based on September numbers, all the caveats. Those earned run numbers should be looked at in context and the context doesn't impress for EJ.

[LDF]

We need them to move off said "track record". Said "track record" has resulted in one brief playoff appearance in the last decade, and in teams which have driven the organization into the ground in terms of fan interest. Last in all MLB teams in TV ratings and 27th in attendance, and boy oh boy, don't try and lay all the blame for that on the Hawk. He only reacts to what we've all seen year in and year out in recent years.

 

This team cannot and should not, in my opinion, go the long term route of trying to build this thing slowly from the ground up. That's what's called a rebuild, and management has been very clear they are not going to do that. And that's fine and very understandable given the quality and quantity of the existing core. The problem has been what's surrounding the core, which has been exceptionally below average the past few years. With no help in sight from the farm system, fortunately or unfortunately, they are somewhat at the mercy of the market to help elevate this team to contending status. It's a predicament they are in of their own doing. It's not entirely bad, given the current state of the Sox' finances. This team is perfectly capable of bringing on the market value of Yoenis Cespedes' worth. To do so would not be in line with their quote unquote "track record", but here's to ringing in NEW track records!

 

and in addition, 28 mil will be coming off the books at the end of the 2016 season and on the 2017 more will be coming off, with starters on 15 mil of melky. no one is mentioning that.

 

second, while the team is waiting for the prospects to develop and step in, how are we to know if they are a player that can't maintain their weight in a batting avg or no better than a backup????

 

alot if being placed on these prospects to being a great player.

[Balta1701]

and in addition, 28 mil will be coming off the books at the end of the 2016 season and on the 2017 more will be coming off, with starters on 15 mil of melky. no one is mentioning that.

 

second, while the team is waiting for the prospects to develop and step in, how are we to know if they are a player that can't maintain their weight in a batting avg or no better than a backup????

 

alot if being placed on these prospects to being a great player.

But, just for the guys the White Sox have under contract right now, $9.75 million of that is eaten up in salary increases. That doesn't count increases to Lawrie, Frazier, Putnam, Petricka, Garcia, and Jennings (if the latter ones are kept) who are arb-eligible, or any opt-out related increase for ABreu. About 1/2 of that $28 mil is therefore already spoken for.

[LDF]

What exactly has Hahn done to deserve that type of trust?

 

They rebuild for 1 year, go for it the next & half-ass it this year. I see no reason to have any trust for a front office who continuously fails it's fans.

 

The two moves on their own were good but you don't trade 2/3 top 10 prospects in your system & now look at this roster & say "we can compete". I'm sorry but as far as I'm concerned, this team has no direction right now.

 

he is not KW and so far he is trying to get the correct pieces for a fix in sox baseball.,