blackmooncreeping Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Hoping that the Sox have told the Cespedes camp 'hey, we really want to stay at 3 years and blah-blah dollars. We appreciate you exploring all possibilities, just respectfully give us a shot to counter if anyone beats our initial offer.' Maybe Hahn has that 4th year in his back pocket to take out and throw on the pile once the serious bidding gets rolling (sounds like we're there now). Maybe even a 5th year with the right option attached. If we were really stuck on the 3 year thing we'd be a distant 3rd to the Nats and Mets, and definitely not viewed as a "finalist." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14615525...ngton-nationals Offer to Cespedes is smaller than what the Tigers gave Upton (surprise, surprise)... 5 different teams in 18 months, pretty crazy. Edited January 21, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Jan 20, 2016 -> 11:38 PM) The Sox can walk and chew gum at the same time. This club is in deeper than we thought if they have to put difference making moves on hold in anticipation of Abreu's future arbitration. Think about it though. Say the Sox sign Cespedes to a new contract that pays him 22M annually. What's Abreu worth if he opts out and goes to arbitration? What's he worth in a contract extension? Also remember the current players under contract like Q, Sale, Melky, Robertson and Eaton have escalating contracts so they will continue to get paid more with each year. Then there's arbitration players that get raises. I believe it was Balta that has already pointed out that approximately half of the 28M coming off the books after '16 will be erased by contract and arbitration raises for '17. I'm just saying there is much more to take into consideration when it comes to signing a player and especially with the money were talking about with Cespedes. Look at how the inability to move LaRoche has handcuffed the Sox this winter and were only talking about trying to move13M. What about those years us Sox fans wished we could find a team to take the contracts of Danks and Dunn off our hands to give the team more money to work with? Now that I think more about it, I hope the Sox really are unwilling to go more than three years and if they are I applaud them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) The Nationals have as much payroll flexibility as any team that could pursue Cespedes. Their payroll is about $30 million less than it was at season’s end. Adding a contract worth more than $20 million annually — Upton got $22.125 — could still leave them with a comparable or smaller payroll than they had last October. Plus, Cespedes did not reject a qualifying offer from the Mets, and therefore will not cost the team that signs him a draft pick. Few natural fits for Cespedes remain. The strong free agent outfield market slogged along, but suddenly,when Upton signed, Cespedes became the last man standing. The Tigers seemed like a fit — until they signed Upton. The Angels and their sputtering offense could have used his help, but reportedly are not pursuing him, according to MLB.com. The president of the unpredictable Marlins, David Samson, told reporters his team has “no interest” in signing the Cuban star. Mets General Manager Sandy Alderson said Tuesday the team is still talking to Cespedes’s agent, but all indications are New York would be hesitant to give a long-term deal, too. Reports have linked the Astros to Cespedes. As spring training nears and his options dwindle, perhaps Cespedes will choose a previously unanticipated home. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/nationa...s-end-up-in-dc/ Edited January 21, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 12:59 AM) http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14615525...ngton-nationals Offer to Cespedes is smaller than what the Tigers gave Upton (surprise, surprise)... 5 different teams in 18 months, pretty crazy. Smaller offer because Upton got 6 years. No one is offering 6 to Cespedes surely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 12:04 AM) Think about it though. Say the Sox sign Cespedes to a new contract that pays him 22M annually. What's Abreu worth if he opts out and goes to arbitration? What's he worth in a contract extension? Also remember the current players under contract like Q, Sale, Melky, Robertson and Eaton have escalating contracts so they will continue to get paid more with each year. Then there's arbitration players that get raises. I believe it was Balta that has already pointed out that approximately half of the 28M coming off the books after '16 will be erased by contract and arbitration raises for '17. I'm just saying there is much more to take into consideration when it comes to signing a player and especially with the money were talking about with Cespedes. Look at how the inability to move LaRoche has handcuffed the Sox this winter and were only talking about trying to move13M. What about those years us Sox fans wished we could find a team to take the contracts of Danks and Dunn off our hands to give the team more money to work with? Now that I think more about it, I hope the Sox really are unwilling to go more than three years and if they are I applaud them. Sure, fine. The White Sox have five obvious places they could go for improvement. OF...Fowler, Jackson, Pearce, Victorino, Snider, Raburn and declining dramatically from there (adding an outfielder has the obvious benefit of pushing Garcia out of RF into a DH platoon with LaRoche so you kill two birds with one stone, which is probably the most logical move of all to make at this point) SS...Desmond, but you lose the draft pick and you're going to give him at least $50 million for 3 years. Starting rotation insurance...Gallardo too expensive and the pick attached, that leaves Latos, Fister, Lincecum, Cliff Lee and a ton of question marks Bullpen...replacing Matt Albers, probably the lowest priority add right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmooncreeping Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 12:04 AM) Think about it though. Say the Sox sign Cespedes to a new contract that pays him 22M annually. What's Abreu worth if he opts out and goes to arbitration? What's he worth in a contract extension? Also remember the current players under contract like Q, Sale, Melky, Robertson and Eaton have escalating contracts so they will continue to get paid more with each year. Then there's arbitration players that get raises. I believe it was Balta that has already pointed out that approximately half of the 28M coming off the books after '16 will be erased by contract and arbitration raises for '17. I'm just saying there is much more to take into consideration when it comes to signing a player and especially with the money were talking about with Cespedes. Look at how the inability to move LaRoche has handcuffed the Sox this winter and were only talking about trying to move13M. What about those years us Sox fans wished we could find a team to take the contracts of Danks and Dunn off our hands to give the team more money to work with? Now that I think more about it, I hope the Sox really are unwilling to go more than three years and if they are I applaud them. Not disagreeing with you and understand where you're coming from with many of your points. But with no salary cap and a dry well in terms of recent or sustained playoff berths or even chances, and with a proven difference maker like Cespedes within grasp, I feel the time to strike is now, and set yourself up for at least 2 years of what should be contender baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Burn that bridge when it comes to it in regards to Abreu. We need to capitalize now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 The other issue with Abreu is his size...guaranteeing a long-term extension for a huge 1B that puts so much pressure and stress on his knees and feet/ankles into his 30's might not be the ideal solution for the organization either, as almost all of his value is going to have to come from his offensive numbers. More importantly, it's kinda backwards thinking. Well, we probably won't compete until 2017 if we don't do something dramatic, but we need to worry about what happens with Abreu or Eaton in arbitration, retaining Sale or dealing with Boras/Rodon in 2019/2020. It's much more likely the White Sox can actually afford Abreu if they maximize their revenues over the next two seasons instead of decreasing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whtsoxfan Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 12:05 AM) The Nationals have as much payroll flexibility as any team that could pursue Cespedes. Their payroll is about $30 million less than it was at season’s end. Adding a contract worth more than $20 million annually — Upton got $22.125 — could still leave them with a comparable or smaller payroll than they had last October. Plus, Cespedes did not reject a qualifying offer from the Mets, and therefore will not cost the team that signs him a draft pick. Few natural fits for Cespedes remain. The strong free agent outfield market slogged along, but suddenly,when Upton signed, Cespedes became the last man standing. The Tigers seemed like a fit — until they signed Upton. The Angels and their sputtering offense could have used his help, but reportedly are not pursuing him, according to MLB.com. The president of the unpredictable Marlins, David Samson, told reporters his team has “no interest” in signing the Cuban star. Mets General Manager Sandy Alderson said Tuesday the team is still talking to Cespedes’s agent, but all indications are New York would be hesitant to give a long-term deal, too. Reports have linked the Astros to Cespedes. As spring training nears and his options dwindle, perhaps Cespedes will choose a previously unanticipated home. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/nationa...s-end-up-in-dc/ https://twitter.com/Nationals/status/689878232909221888 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 20, 2016 -> 10:04 PM) Think about it though. Say the Sox sign Cespedes to a new contract that pays him 22M annually. What's Abreu worth if he opts out and goes to arbitration? What's he worth in a contract extension? Also remember the current players under contract like Q, Sale, Melky, Robertson and Eaton have escalating contracts so they will continue to get paid more with each year. Then there's arbitration players that get raises. I believe it was Balta that has already pointed out that approximately half of the 28M coming off the books after '16 will be erased by contract and arbitration raises for '17. Look at how the inability to move LaRoche has handcuffed the Sox this winter and were only talking about trying to move 13M. While they do have probably $14 million more in raises and arbitration for 2017, they also have Melky, Frazier, Lawrie, and Duke all coming off the books after 2017. The very few long-term commitments, and the ones they do are cheap. Sale maxes out at $13.5 million in 2019, Quintana $11.5 in 2020, Eaton $10.5 in 2021. Estimated payroll with options and arb costs for 2017 is $104 million. A $130 million payroll is good for 12th - 15th highest these days. You can't be unwilling to spend that and still compete unless you've stockpiled 8+ years of top 1st round draft picks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Ron Paultard Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Can someone summerize this thread? Are we getting Cespedes this winter??!! GJHSDGDSKJDB! Adam Eaten on first, getting big 2ndary lead. No outs. Infield pulled in, pitcher in the stretch Melky sitting on a fastball middle-in Huge hole on right side (healthy wrist) Abreu on deck Cespedes in the hole Frazier looming If I am opposing starting pitcher, at that moment I refuse to deliver the ball. Just slash my wrists horizonally, fake a pregnancy, or find any other dang excuse to be taken out of the game. Because it's futile. Do it Rick Hahn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/washing...osenthal-012016 If the Mets and White Sox are both limiting this to three years, there's almost no way he would choose the Sox over the Mets...looking at it realistically. What are the odds we'd offer a 10-15% premium on the Mets' best offer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glangon Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (whtsoxfan @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 07:35 AM) https://twitter.com/Nationals/status/689878232909221888 According to my source. The announcement is for a concert at the stadium, my source reckons that Billy Joel will be playing there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (glangon @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 06:59 AM) According to my source. The announcement is for a concert at the stadium, my source reckons that Billy Joel will be playing there. And what does the piano man have to report regarding Cespedes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) http://nypost.com/2016/01/20/wilpon-steinb...es-sweepstakes/ Yankees pretending to join Cespedes hunt... https://mobile.twitter.com/MibeltRodriguez/...994285467504642 Mibelt claiming the offer of five years for Cespedes will now come from a mystery team... Edited January 21, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 01:28 AM) The other issue with Abreu is his size...guaranteeing a long-term extension for a huge 1B that puts so much pressure and stress on his knees and feet/ankles into his 30's might not be the ideal solution for the organization either, as almost all of his value is going to have to come from his offensive numbers. More importantly, it's kinda backwards thinking. Well, we probably won't compete until 2017 if we don't do something dramatic, but we need to worry about what happens with Abreu or Eaton in arbitration, retaining Sale or dealing with Boras/Rodon in 2019/2020. It's much more likely the White Sox can actually afford Abreu if they maximize their revenues over the next two seasons instead of decreasing them. The size of a person has absolutely no correlation to injury. That is a totally uninformed statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Smart money says cespedes gets a 5-yr deal (at least). Plenty of interest there. https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/690147759018643457 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Soxfan Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Friends, I have held out hope all winter but in my mind with the recent Nationals interest, he is not signing with the White Sox. Let's hope Hahn has a plan so the Sox players are not dwelling at "being left at the alter" by Cespedes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 07:33 AM) Smart money says cespedes gets a 5-yr deal (at least). Plenty of interest there. https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/690147759018643457 My thought all along. Hope we still get him but wouldn't shock me if some team swooped in. Sox won't look good with this 3 year offer stance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) Altar... http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/01/20/forbes...-valuable-team/ Bulls worth $2.3 billion, third most valuable franchise in NBA. If you add up all the NFL teams, with the Rams now doubling in value and third highest after Cowboys and Pats...NFL is worth $64.85 billion. NBA at $37.65 billion. Last year, MLB was $36 billion and that will be updated by Forbes this spring so they will be ahead of the NBA but should jump to mid $40's in March. White Sox were 16th at $975 million. Combined White Sox and Bulls, would be one of the top six in the world along with Yankees, Man U, Real Madrid, Cowboys, Patriots...ahead of Knicks and Lakers. Edited January 21, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 good story caulfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 06:59 AM) Altar... http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/01/20/forbes...-valuable-team/ Bulls worth $2.3 billion, third most valuable franchise in NBA. If you add up all the NFL teams, with the Rams now doubling in value and third highest after Cowboys and Pats...NFL is worth $64.85 billion. NBA at $37.65 billion. Last year, MLB was $36 billion and that will be updated by Forbes this spring so they will be ahead of the NBA but should jump to mid $40's in March. White Sox were 16th at $975 million. Combined White Sox and Bulls, would be one of the top six in the world along with Yankees, Man U, Real Madrid, Cowboys, Patriots...ahead of Knicks and Lakers. WTF dude, WTF... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) Just putting it in perspective...kind of pathetic that we're going to be fortunate to come out of this with Austin Jackson after all the hype and build-up. According to Harrelson, the presence of Frazier in the line-up alone will make Avi a 30-30 threat again. Edited January 21, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I just have a hard time thinking the sox are a finalist only offering 3 years. I could see the mets because they were just in the World Series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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