Cespedes Re-signs with the Mets

[CyAcosta41]

FWIW (and it ain't worth much) ...

 

Knocking down some beers with another big-time knowledgeable Sox fan ... similar to many of us in understanding the landscape of players throughout baseball and thirsting for knowledge about how these deals go down. Like me, he's a transactional attorney, so we get a special kick out of deal structuring as well (billionaires paying multi-millionaires, and all that jazz).

 

HE has a friend that was a long-time Sox investor/advisor on the business side of baseball. According to MY friend, HIS friend said the Sox were and continue to be IN on Cespedes, but on their terms and are determined to not chase because of outside opinion. I think most of us agree that's very consistent with this ownership group from Day #1. No surprise there. They LIKE Cespedes, but don't LOVE him -- they'll take him as a value play, and that's value determined by their metrics.

 

He's also told the framework of the possible deal is what many have suggested (this isn't rocket science):

* Base deal is 3 years for X

* Player opt out after year 2

* Mutual option for year 4 (player option vests upon objective performance)

* Second mutual option for year 5 (player option vests upon objective performance in year 4, if any)

 

In essence, POSSIBLY a 5 year deal with big bucks under certain circumstances. Plus, player outs to reenter the market should he feel like doing so for various reasons.

 

Personally (and, of course, if true), I applaud the Sox for try to land a guy with a very high ceiling (but with a definite low-ish floor at this contract amount), but on their terms. At the end of the day, not only do you want a guy that wants to be here, you want a guy that is taking a deal because he's happy to get this particular deal. Mindset is important on most personal service contracts, but especially where there is reason to believe that the "talent" is a bit mercurial. I like the thought of bringing a guy in who is contractually motivated to out-perform his contract in a monster way over the next two years to benefit himself. This framework jives with the two-year plan for some of our other talent.

Edited January 22, 2016 by CyAcosta41

[Dick Allen]

If you are going to trade for Gardner, you might as well sign Fowler. They are pretty similar, only Fowler is younger, would cost the now #28 pick vs. at least a couple of your better prospects.

[Dick Allen]

FWIW (and it ain't worth much) ...

 

Knocking down some beers with another big-time knowledgeable Sox fan ... similar to many of us in understanding the landscape of players throughout baseball and thirsting for knowledge about how these deals go down. Like me, he's a transactional attorney, so we get a special kick out of deal structuring as well (billionaires paying multi-millionaires, and all that jazz).

 

HE has a friend that was a long-time Sox investor/advisor on the business side of baseball. According to MY friend, HIS friend said the Sox were and continue to be IN on Cespedes, but on their terms and are determined to not chase because of outside opinion. I think most of us agree that's very consistent with this ownership group from Day #1. No surprise there. They LIKE Cespedes, but don't LOVE him -- they'll take him as a value play, and that's value determined by their metrics.

 

He's also told the framework of the possible deal is what many have suggested (this isn't rocket science):

* Base deal is 3 years for X

* Player opt out after year 2

* Mutual option for year 4 (player option vests upon objective performance)

* Second mutual option for year 5 (player option vests upon objective performance in year 4, if any)

 

In essence, POSSIBLY a 5 year deal with big bucks under certain circumstances. Plus, player outs to reenter the market should he feel like doing so for various reasons.

 

Personally (and, of course, if true), I applaud the Sox for try to land a guy with a very high ceiling (but with a definite low-ish floor at this contract amount), but on their terms. At the end of the day, not only do you want a guy that wants to be here, you want a guy that is taking a deal because he's happy to get this particular deal. Mindset is important on most personal service contracts, but especially where there is reason to believe that the "talent" is a bit mercurial. I like the thought of bringing a guy in who is contractually motivated to out-perform his contract in a monster way over the next two years to benefit himself. This framework jives with the two-year plan for some of our other talent.

 

 

You can't acquire players based on fan opinion or you will wind up with a payroll bigger than the Dodgers and a really s***ty team. As the old saying goes, you start taking the fans' advice, you wind up sitting next to them. I too applaud them for having a plan and sticking to it, no matter how unpopular it may be.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Dick Allen

[LDF]

FWIW (and it ain't worth much) ...

 

Knocking down some beers with another big-time knowledgeable Sox fan ... similar to many of us in understanding the landscape of players throughout baseball and thirsting for knowledge about how these deals go down. Like me, he's a transactional attorney, so we get a special kick out of deal structuring as well (billionaires paying multi-millionaires, and all that jazz).

 

HE has a friend that was a long-time Sox investor/advisor on the business side of baseball. According to MY friend, HIS friend said the Sox were and continue to be IN on Cespedes, but on their terms and are determined to not chase because of outside opinion. I think most of us agree that's very consistent with this ownership group from Day #1. No surprise there. They LIKE Cespedes, but don't LOVE him -- they'll take him as a value play, and that's value determined by their metrics.

 

He's also told the framework of the possible deal is what many have suggested (this isn't rocket science):

* Base deal is 3 years for X

* Player opt out after year 2

* Mutual option for year 4 (player option vests upon objective performance)

* Second mutual option for year 5 (player option vests upon objective performance in year 4, if any)

 

In essence, POSSIBLY a 5 year deal with big bucks under certain circumstances. Plus, player outs to reenter the market should he feel like doing so for various reasons.

 

Personally (and, of course, if true), I applaud the Sox for try to land a guy with a very high ceiling (but with a definite low-ish floor at this contract amount), but on their terms. At the end of the day, not only do you want a guy that wants to be here, you want a guy that is taking a deal because he's happy to get this particular deal. Mindset is important on most personal service contracts, but especially where there is reason to believe that the "talent" is a bit mercurial. I like the thought of bringing a guy in who is contractually motivated to out-perform his contract in a monster way over the next two years to benefit himself. This framework jives with the two-year plan for some of our other talent.

 

i made something like that up 2 days ago, it was, to put it mildly said, and i am paraphrasing, it was a pipe-dream.

 

but i still like the idea.

[Y2Jimmy0]

362 pages and 2 months of speculation for a guy that isn't even that good. I wanted Cespedes too. This whole thing is absurd though.

[Rowand44]

If you are going to trade for Gardner, you might as well sign Fowler. They are pretty similar, only Fowler is younger, would cost the now #28 pick vs. at least a couple of your better prospects.

I'm sure it's been discussed but what's Gardner's contract situation? I agree with your point but obviously his current deal could change the way the sox fo looks at him vs Fowler.

[Dick Allen]

I'm sure it's been discussed but what's Gardner's contract situation? I agree with your point but obviously his current deal could change the way the sox fo looks at him vs Fowler.

3 years left at $36.5 million. $12.5 million option for year 4 with a $2 million buyout. And Fowler is almost 3 years younger.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Eminor3rd]

I'm out on Cespedes. I'm over it. Got frustrated because I wanted Gordon and Upton, but there's no point in overpaying this dude.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

Yup. Gota love that old mystery team

If baseball ever returns to Montreal, I say name them the Montreal Mysteries.

[LDF]

If you are going to trade for Gardner, you might as well sign Fowler. They are pretty similar, only Fowler is younger, would cost the now #28 pick vs. at least a couple of your better prospects.

 

i posted this last nite on the other thread.

 

now for the other info that i didn't mention..... while you and probably many who are thinking like you may have a point. i am thinking with what it was said 2 weeks ago on an ny site.

 

the yanks wants to get under the team tax and lower their salary. they want to rid the team with the long salary that they have now. in addition, this person stated that he wouldn't be surprise if the yanks were offer some pitching prospect, they may do the trade in a heart-beat.

 

now this is where i was thinking about 2 - 2nd tier pitchers.....

 

but i was also thinking of the recurring word being used...... may

 

but still, as some may say, flowers..... the sox loose a comp pick however the sox will loose 2 pitchers that are 2nd tier now.

 

for me, i think it is a fair trade.

 

[CB2.0]

So if the Sox are really not serious or out on Cespedes, why not any offers or rumors of offers on Jackson/Fowler or an OF trade? I'm sure Hahn has put out feelers and possibly some talks, but it would seem that Cespedes is their #1 target. If it weren't, you would think something else would've been done by now or at least, the makings of something getting done.

 

Right?

 

This whole Cespedes saga is just weird!

[Dick Allen]

I'm out on Cespedes. I'm over it. Got frustrated because I wanted Gordon and Upton, but there's no point in overpaying this dude.

He was my 3rd choice of the top 3, but he is still the best guy out there. It won't kill me if they don't get him, but I would be pretty happy if the did. They need something.

[LDF]

So if the Sox are really not serious or out on Cespedes, why not any offers or rumors of offers on Jackson/Fowler or an OF trade? I'm sure Hahn has put out feelers and possibly some talks, but it would seem that Cespedes is their #1 target. If it weren't, you would think something else would've been done by now or at least, the makings of something getting done.

 

Right?

 

This whole Cespedes saga is just weird!

 

on the lack of talk about the secondary alternative, i am refraining big time and am asking that myself and to no one.

 

hint..... team salary as of now, 113 mil + / - a few mil.

Edited January 22, 2016 by LDF

[BlackSox13]

I'm sure it's been discussed but what's Gardner's contract situation? I agree with your point but obviously his current deal could change the way the sox fo looks at him vs Fowler.

2016 32 New York Yankees $13,500,000 7.072

2017 33 New York Yankees $12,500,000

2018 34 New York Yankees $11,500,000

2019 35 New York Yankees *$12,500,000 $12.5M Team Option, $2M Buyout

Earliest Free Agent: 2019

Career to date (may be incomplete) $25,146,000 Does not include future salaries ($37.5M)

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...shtml#contracts

 

 

Gardner will cost more than the #28 pick in terms of prospects but Fowler will probably cost more in terms of money. Plus, Fowler could end up back with the Cubs anyway. Fowler is a pretty popular guy with the Cubs FO, players and fans so I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up back on the North side.

[Buehrle>Wood]

So if the Sox are really not serious or out on Cespedes, why not any offers or rumors of offers on Jackson/Fowler or an OF trade? I'm sure Hahn has put out feelers and possibly some talks, but it would seem that Cespedes is their #1 target. If it weren't, you would think something else would've been done by now or at least, the makings of something getting done.

 

Right?

 

This whole Cespedes saga is just weird!

People are simply mistaking the lack of information with negative information. Could be right, we'll see.

[Whisox05]

So if the Sox are really not serious or out on Cespedes, why not any offers or rumors of offers on Jackson/Fowler or an OF trade? I'm sure Hahn has put out feelers and possibly some talks, but it would seem that Cespedes is their #1 target. If it weren't, you would think something else would've been done by now or at least, the makings of something getting done.

 

Right?

 

This whole Cespedes saga is just weird!

 

 

This is what I'm thinking. Hahn said that they were going to look at upgrading the outfield. They haven't don't anything up to now and supposedly are in for Cespedes but if they weren't fully going to go in why didn't do something else before hand. There were alot of second tier guys they could've gotten without picks attached and they didn't do anything and still don't seem to he moving on at this point. It's been way to quite on their part

[CB2.0]

This is what I'm thinking. Hahn said that they were going to look at upgrading the outfield. They haven't don't anything up to now and supposedly are in for Cespedes but if they weren't fully going to go in why didn't do something else before hand. There were alot of second tier guys they could've gotten without picks attached and they didn't do anything and still don't seem to he moving on at this point. It's been way to quite on their part

 

Right! That's what I'm trying to say. If there was any interest at even a short contract, it would've HAD to be around $20M+ AAV. That could still be used to fill other holes (OF for sure), and maybe even shore up the SP with a low risk/high reward flier type signing (Latos/Lincecum) in case Danks/Johnson get hurt or tank.

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

This is what I'm thinking. Hahn said that they were going to look at upgrading the outfield. They haven't don't anything up to now and supposedly are in for Cespedes but if they weren't fully going to go in why didn't do something else before hand. There were alot of second tier guys they could've gotten without picks attached and they didn't do anything and still don't seem to he moving on at this point. It's been way to quite on their part

 

 

It seems like the White Sox were offering a short term deal of 3-4 years because that's what everyone else interested was doing as well. Cespedes probably figures that if there isn't big $$ to be had, then he'd rather just go back to the Mets. I don't think the Sox played this wrong. They just set a limit to as far as they'd go to sign Cespedes. He's a good player. He's not a great player. They were interested if the market came to them and I think it did. However, Cespedes would rather be in New York. If you think the White Sox should have offered him a $100 million contract and that they are cheap because they didn't, that's your prerogative.

 

WhiteSoxLIfer: This isn't about you. Just in general.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Y2JImmy0

[ez2791]

Pretty over this whole cespedes situation, imo we should target Blackmon and Latos and call it a day.

[ptatc]

The Sox should just offer 5/$110M with no deferred money and an opt-out after year 2. I really think he would accept that right now.

He would but the Sox would be crazy to do that. He isn't worth that long deal.

[CB2.0]

It seems like the White Sox were offering a short term deal of 3-4 years because that's what everyone else interested was doing as well. Cespedes probably figures that if there isn't big $$ to be had, then he'd rather just go back to the Mets. I don't think the Sox played this wrong. They just set a limit to as far as they'd go to sign Cespedes. He's a good player. He's not a great player. They were interested if the market came to them and I think it did. However, Cespedes would rather be in New York. If you think the White Sox should have offered him a $100 million contract and that they are cheap because they didn't, that's your prerogative.

 

Whether cheap or not, I think you're dead on with the assessment it would've taken big $ to get him to choose the South Side. And that's fine. But move on! Lawrie/Frazier/Avila/Navarro were good moves, but they're only 1 & 2 year deals and there's still holes, so get on it Rick!

 

[southsider2k5]

It seems like the White Sox were offering a short term deal of 3-4 years because that's what everyone else interested was doing as well. Cespedes probably figures that if there isn't big $$ to be had, then he'd rather just go back to the Mets. I don't think the Sox played this wrong. They just set a limit to as far as they'd go to sign Cespedes. He's a good player. He's not a great player. They were interested if the market came to them and I think it did. However, Cespedes would rather be in New York. If you think the White Sox should have offered him a $100 million contract and that they are cheap because they didn't, that's your prerogative.

 

Good stuff right here.

[BlackSox13]

i posted this last nite on the other thread.

 

now for the other info that i didn't mention..... while you and probably many who are thinking like you may have a point. i am thinking with what it was said 2 weeks ago on an ny site.

 

the yanks wants to get under the team tax and lower their salary. they want to rid the team with the long salary that they have now. in addition, this person stated that he wouldn't be surprise if the yanks were offer some pitching prospect, they may do the trade in a heart-beat.

 

now this is where i was thinking about 2 - 2nd tier pitchers.....

 

but i was also thinking of the recurring word being used...... may

 

but still, as some may say, flowers..... the sox loose a comp pick however the sox will loose 2 pitchers that are 2nd tier now.

 

for me, i think it is a fair trade.

This is possibly but a quick Google search has revealed that writers on the east coast have been writing about the Yanks being a good fit with the Angels in a Brett Gardner for Andrew Heaney swap. Not sure the Sox can afford that price.

[Whisox05]

cespedes may love new york -- i'm sure he does -- but i can find no one who thinks he called yanks recently. mets, yes.

https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/690550979767439360

[shipps]

He was my 3rd choice of the top 3, but he is still the best guy out there. It won't kill me if they don't get him, but I would be pretty happy if the did. They need something.

 

In my perfect world they would make a trade for an OF before Cespedes signs somewhere else. That would be nice.