CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 08:26 PM) Mixed feelings for me on this one. If the deal is roughly as reported, Cespedes got just about the fair market price many experts predicted, but with the asterisk being he'll likely opt out after 1 year if he rolls out a Herculean 2016 to match his second-half of 2015. For players who like where they're at (see Alex Gordon), you need to knock out the champion (incumbent), not just beat them on points. The Sox PROBABLY offered something similar and didn't knock him out. And it sure seems that NO OTHER TEAMS tried to snag him with an above-market offer either (the Nats supposed 5 year offer supposedly have substantial deferred dollars and not likely a 1 year opt out). Bottom-line sure seems to be nobody tried too hard to lure him away from the Mets. Personally, playing armchair GM, if I'm Hahn, I stretch to lure him away. In my opinion, the upsides of Cespedes is worth taking on risks. In theory, he solves a lot of problems and brings a dash of fear into the lineup. And we've failed the same way so often before. Maybe you fail again, but let's try something different (and to me, failing with Dunn and LaRoche are very different animals than any possible failure with Cespedes). I hope Cespedes destroys the Cubs all season long as well, because: (1) duh, I can't stand the Cubs (more accurately, Cubs fans); and (2) I think that Cespedes might be a monster and I wouldn't mind seeing the Sox brain trust humbled a bit by not picking the low hanging fruit. No contradictions from me -- I think the Sox decision makers do things the right way, analyze their baseball decisions, and run a professional and measured business; unfortunately, they rock in assessing quality pitching, but they are arguably horrible in analyzing the offensive game. This where I am and the "horrible" is doing a lot of damage. Edited January 23, 2016 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB2.0 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 12:44 AM) CarGo was basically MVP the second half. Coming into last year, they were looking at eating salary. Same with LA and Ethier. Situations change. I never loved CarGo, but the preservation of Anderson/Fulmer has to be a big part of the equation. In reality, it's Blackmon or Dickerson anyway... But YOU put up a lineup featuring CarGo in it, right? I'm not crazy? I realize I'm new, but you are all over the place. That guy costs almost $40M unless you get cash and from what I've seen...people on this site are talking about GIVING THEM something (i.e. - Adams) to get him... lol. That's patently crazy. Edited January 23, 2016 by CB2.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Outside of Quentin, Alexei, Abreu and Eaton...that's not a great stretch of eight years considering none of them were your drafts or under 21 signings. Anderson could be the first to hold down a regular job since Beckham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 11:56 PM) But YOU put up a lineup featuring CarGo in it, right? I'm not crazy? I realize I'm new, but you are all over the place. That guy costs almost $40M unless you get cash and from what I've seen...people on this site are talking about GIVING THEM something to get him... lol. That's patently crazy. Nope, that wasn't my lineup. Actually just playing along since the Rockies convinced Parra to come there largely based on the chance to play at least one year with CarGo. As the franchise player and with his second half and the deals Upton, Davis and Cespedes are getting...the asking price would be Adams and Hawkins. They don't have to trade him...they just got out from under the Tulo deal. Which team needs him more? Edited January 23, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB2.0 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 12:59 AM) Outside of Quentin, Alexei, Abreu and Eaton...that's not a great stretch of eight years considering none of them were your drafts or under 21 signings. Anderson could be the first to hold down a regular job since Beckham. Beckham held down his job - the problem was he sucked at it after year 1 and yet kept playing. What do you mean...under 21 signings? The Sox love college grads. Their top picks are almost always 21 or close to it so...is this a gotcha attempt or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 12:04 AM) Beckham held down his job - the problem was he sucked at it after year 1 and yet kept playing. What do you mean...under 21 signings? The Sox love college grads. Their top picks are almost always 21 or close to it so...is this a gotcha attempt or something? No, I mean pretty soon we will be one of the minority of teams that has never gone over the yearly allocations/allotments for under 21 Latin American signings... Edited January 23, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB2.0 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) Latin signings are a whole different animal. And speaking of: weren't Abreu, Cespedes, and Puig all the SAME class? What MLB team won with their pick and $? You're moving goal posts. Edited January 23, 2016 by CB2.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 09:10 PM) That would be beautiful. Trading with the Rockies is like trading for a guy you know is on steroids but won't be when you get him. OTOH he does have a hot wife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 12:20 AM) Latin signings are a whole different animal. And speaking of: weren't Abreu, Cespedes, and Puig all the SAME class? What MLB team won with their pick and $? You're moving goal posts. The A's and Dodgers got playoff appearances... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB2.0 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 ..wife faker than him. No Rockies OFers, Rick. Please don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB2.0 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 01:24 AM) The A's and Dodgers got playoff appearances... The A's did because of Cespedes...maybe. The Dodgers because of Puig? No. Come on, man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Glad this is finally over. Nevertheless it was fun discussions throughout the thread. In the end, Cespedes held out long enough to get a contract from the team he wanted to stay with. I'm sure Hahn tried but he can't sign a player that really wants to play for another team. Oh well, on to the next twiiter rumor I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunk23 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 06:27 AM) The A's did because of Cespedes...maybe. The Dodgers because of Puig? No. Come on, man. He had the second highest OPS on the team in 2013 and highest on the team in 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB2.0 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (chunk23 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 01:31 AM) He had the second highest OPS on the team in 2013 and highest on the team in 2014. "He" who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 12:20 AM) Latin signings are a whole different animal. And speaking of: weren't Abreu, Cespedes, and Puig all the SAME class? What MLB team won with their pick and $? You're moving goal posts. Incorrect. Abreu, Puig and Cespedes were not under 21 amateur signings which is way different. Basically like drafting where you still need to work with them and develop them in your minors like high school/college picks. Edited January 23, 2016 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB2.0 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 01:35 AM) Incorrect. Abreu, Puig and Cespedes were not under 21 amateur signings which is way different. Basically like drafting where you still need to work with them and develop them in your minors like high school/college picks. I said same class. As in ELIGIBLE class (from Cuba) to sign. This 21 thing...that's you're distraction. You invented that strawman and are arguing it for some reason...I'm not even talking about it. Are you drunk? Edited January 23, 2016 by CB2.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 12:42 AM) I said same class. As in ELIGIBLE class (from Cuba) to sign. This 21 thing...that's you're distraction. You invented that strawman and are arguing it for some reason...I'm not even talking about it. Are you drunk? You were responding to a poster who was making a comment about developing hitters and you seemed confused about what "under 21" signings meant. I don't know what Puig, Cespedes and Abreu has to do with under 21 year old signing. Don't know what you mean by "eligible to sign from Cuba" when the amateurs under 21 are also "eligible to sign" contracts (despite having restrictions). Edited January 23, 2016 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmooncreeping Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 11:24 PM) They just gave him the largest single season outfield contract ever. It's not like Mets got a hometown discount. And Cespedes never wanted to leave NY to begin with. Once the Mets got back in it was just a matter of time. It wasnt about getting outbid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 12:49 AM) And Cespedes never wanted to leave NY to begin with. Once the Mets got back in it was just a matter of time. It wasnt about getting outbid They can definitely thank Cuddyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB2.0 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 01:45 AM) You were responding to a poster who was making a comment about developing hitters and you seemed confused about what "under 21" signings meant. I don't know what Puig, Cespedes and Abreu has to do with under 21 year old signing. Don't know what you mean by "eligible to sign from Cuba" when the amateurs under 21 are also "eligible to sign" contracts (despite having restrictions). I didn't bring up 21 (whether Cuban..or not) at all. Caulfield brought that up for no reason. The only thing even close to that is when I said the Sox like college Grads. They either are, or are close to..21, which was the only point I had for the unnecessary 21 year old point that had nothing to do with anything. Edited January 23, 2016 by CB2.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I've been following this thread from the first page and was glad to read through all of the discussion. Though the Sox didn't get Cespedes, I am glad they didn't for the 27.5 million they would have paid for one year. I just wish their options in right field were better. I would rather bank on Avi having a better year (granted, I only watched most of the season finishing in garbage time in August going forward) and taking my chances next year instead of surrendering a draft pick to get Fowler. Wouldn't we rather keep the draft pick and draft talent instead of getting a free agent and "going for it?" I think they can go in with Garcia and upgrade next year. I also don't see where Desmond is needed considering Saladino could be a shortstop of needed and he won't cost a draft pick. I also don't follow everything as close as you all do but I think getting an outfielder like CarGo is worth it, otherwise the Sox should stand pat for now and build in 2016. Also, do the Sox need to give up two first round picks of Desmond and Fowler sign? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 11:15 PM) What is Desmond going to cost? Realistically? He turned DOWN a $107M offer already... But let's here the thoughts. This oughtta be interesting. No one's really been linked to him. If he wants to take a one year deal I'd offer 1/15.8 (value of the QO). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB2.0 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 01:57 AM) No one's really been linked to him. If he wants to take a one year deal I'd offer 1/15.8 (value of the QO). Way too much. How about $8M with incentives up to $12M? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (MuckFinnesota @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 12:56 AM) I've been following this thread from the first page and was glad to read through all of the discussion. Though the Sox didn't get Cespedes, I am glad they didn't for the 27.5 million they would have paid for one year. I just wish their options in right field were better. I would rather bank on Avi having a better year (granted, I only watched most of the season finishing in garbage time in August going forward) and taking my chances next year instead of surrendering a draft pick to get Fowler. Wouldn't we rather keep the draft pick and draft talent instead of getting a free agent and "going for it?" I think they can go in with Garcia and upgrade next year. I also don't see where Desmond is needed considering Saladino could be a shortstop of needed and he won't cost a draft pick. I also don't follow everything as close as you all do but I think getting an outfielder like CarGo is worth it, otherwise the Sox should stand pat for now and build in 2016. Also, do the Sox need to give up two first round picks of Desmond and Fowler sign? The Sox first round pick is protected so if the Sox signed both Fowler and Desmond they would give up the Samardzija comp pick plus their 2nd round pick. It's possible the Sox sign one player with a comp pick attached but very doubtful they sign two. It will be one or the other but not both. Looking like the Cubs may go after Fowler and it sounds like the Sox have interest in Desmond so if the Sox signed Desmond, the Nat's would get the Sox Samardzija comp pick which I believe is currently pick #28. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB2.0 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 02:05 AM) The Sox first round pick is protected so if the Sox signed both Fowler and Desmond they would give up the Samardzija comp pick plus their 2nd round pick. It's possible the Sox sign one player with a comp pick attached but very doubtful they sign two. It will be one or the other but not both. Looking like the Cubs may go after Fowler and it sounds like the Sox have interest in Desmond so if the Sox signed Desmond, the Nat's would get the Sox Samardzija comp pick which I believe is currently pick #28. The Sox shouldn't sign BOTH Fowler and Desmond. Quite frankly...I don't see the point of signing Desmond at all. If you're going to give up a pick, get an OBP guy that can hit #2 legit, play CF if needed, and put that "SS $" on an SP flier. There's legit power in the IF now at 3 of the 4 spots. Let Saladino be a defensive/no offense stop gap until Anderson is ready. Live with that. But you HAVE to do something about the OF. Frustrating...Hahn put out a suitcase with $8M to dump LaRoche and STILL nobody wanted it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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