Cespedes Re-signs with the Mets

[ptatc]

I just have a really hard time believing that the Sox won't do anything else now considering that they've already acquired Frazier and Lawrie.

 

Those trades are meaningless and pointless if the Sox don't add anyone else. Why upgrade two positions when at least one more substantial upgrade is necessary to turn the team from a "wildcard hopeful" into a "legit contender"?

 

The bottom line, in my opinion, is that Hahn is not done making moves and something else will be done.

I don't agree with the logic that upgrading two two positions is pointless. He made the team better without sacrificing the future. It looks like he is trying to add another piece at the right price. So far he hasn't hurt the team with any long term moves. Signing a free agent to a 5-6 year deal is something that could hurt the team in the long term by tying up a large salary number.

If he does nothing else, he's made the team better at positions where the team has no prospects ready for a couple of years.

[BlackSox13]

@PatrickHoward50

"Hearing talks broke down because Yoenis Cespedes wants a 6-year deal, while White Sox only want to offer 5. Upton out of picture. (Pt. 1)."

 

"White Sox still prefer Cespedes, may circle back to Alex Gordon if K.C. offer is low. White Sox willing to add 5th year to Gordon contract."

 

...So, I think that says all it does needs to about that whole saga in terms of his tweets last night.

 

 

FWIW he said it was done, not close.

 

Exact tweet: "Per source within the White Sox organization; team will ink Yoenis Cespedes to a 6-year deal. Dollar amount pegged at $125-135 million."

Glad you pointed this out. Just a bit contradicting wouldn't you say?

 

Like others have said, I'm happy to sit back and watch how this unfolds. I trust Hahn will make something happen to better the team in some fashion.

 

Also want to point out. I think JR deserves some credit since he certainly appears willing to bump the payroll ceiling significantly in an attempt to put together a competitive team for '16. The man catches some s*** around here for being " cheap" and yet the Sox are in the thick of things trying to sign one of three top remaining FA outfielders.

 

 

[BlackSox13]

I don't agree with the logic that upgrading two two positions is pointless. He made the team better without sacrificing the future. It looks like he is trying to add another piece at the right price. So far he hasn't hurt the team with any long term moves. Signing a free agent to a 5-6 year deal is something that could hurt the team in the long term by tying up a large salary number.

If he does nothing else, he's made the team better at positions where the team has no prospects ready for a couple of years.

Another thing to point out about those trades is it gives the Sox a shot at extending Lawrie and Frazier to shore up those positions for the long term if the team and players are interested.

[Big Hurtin]

I have no doubt that all 3 will be signing elsewhere. Again, the White Sox are acting like they are the only ones with money to spend. They'll get paid by someone else and everyone will be saying it's a good thing to not spend that much money. Then you'll be wondering why they are fighting for 4th place in the division.

 

[justBLAZE]

Saying he believes they'll sign 1 & saying they aren't close isn't exactly contradicting...

 

 

That's not contradicting...

 

 

Lol wut?

 

 

Agreed, just dont see it happening before New Years

[Real]

@Big_Hurtin problem is the market for these 3 OF isn't very big

 

it's just that their agents know this and are weighing on the fact that teams like the sox and orioles and Mets need one of these guys amd are waiting for them to blink first

[Vote4Pedro]

@Big_Hurtin problem is the market for these 3 OF isn't very big

 

it's just that their agents know this and are weighing on the fact that teams like the sox and orioles and Mets need one of these guys amd are waiting for them to blink first

Don't really see the mets being in the market for another OF

[BlackSox13]

Looking back at the last few pages, I realized something that had not been said and yet seemingly overdue.

 

Blah blah blah, blah blah, blah blah blah blah, but, blah blah and blah to the blizzy blah blah!

 

Edit: would like to dedicate a "POOP" to a certain someone.

Edited December 31, 2015 by BlackSox13

[2nd_city_saint787]

Looking back at the last few pages, I realized something that had not been said and yet seemingly overdue.

 

Blah blah blah, blah blah, blah blah blah blah, but, blah blah and blah to the blizzy blah blah!

 

Edit: would like to dedicate a "POOP" to a certain someone.

 

Chants "Kyyles gonna kill you..Kyyles gonna kill you....Kyyles gonna kill you"

 

(As a wrestling fan Kyyle will get it)

[BlackSox13]

Chants "Kyyles gonna kill you..Kyyles gonna kill you....Kyyles gonna kill you"

 

(As a wrestling fan Kyyle will get it)

I ain't skeerd of no Kyle Broflovski! I have Beef Cake as my tag partner. BEEF CAKE, BEEF CAAAAAKE!!!!

[caulfield12]

https://www.overdrive.com/media/709737/wilpons-folly

 

Just read anything from Megdal on Wilpon and the Mets. There's no way in hell they can afford Cespedes in 2018/19, and they can't afford the risk with signing him of being stuck with that contract since they already have $30 million balloon payments due on the Madoff settlement each year, basically like signing another Cespedes (+) except the money an outflow to creditors.

 

 

Going back to Ptac's point, yes, it's POSSIBLE they can compete STILL, yes, it's probably NOT wise to sign Cespedes for 6 years (let alone Upton) and certainly not Alex Gordon for five, but the fact remains that:

 

1) They don't have enough minor league talent behind Anderson/Fulmer to pull off a major trade

2) That Cabrera, Lawrie and Frazier will be free agents after 2017

3) That next year's FA market is horrific

4) That another year of .500ish baseball would almost force a Quintana or Sale megatrade because there won't even be the talent available on the market to spend even if they want to do so.

 

You can definitely see a scenario where they bring in one of Span/Parra/Jackson (no to Fowler because of the pick attached) and also add a starting pitcher that falls through the cracks for one year or one year and an option (like a Brett Anderson situation last year w/ LA, or Medlen with KC).

 

Now that's going to move the needle up a bit, but is it enough? Maybe. Maybe not. They definitely should have a better option than Beck/Turner as their 6th starter. Realistically, you need seven legit starters at the beginning of the season in terms of depth, and I'm not even 100% convinced we have five right now with question marks about Erik Johnson still looming.

 

The only other possibility is waiting for guys like Desmond and Fowler to not get signed and picking them up on "make good" or pillow deals for 1-2 years...but we all saw how poorly Kendrys Morales and Stephen Drew performed when their spring training time essentially began in May. Desmond would be more of an investment for 2017 than one with an immediate payoff in 2016. Of course, those two cases with veterans doesn't mean every single player under 30-31 will struggle to get their timing and offensive rhythm back to the same extent.

Edited December 31, 2015 by caulfield12

[SoCalSox]

So after collecting some info on all of this, I think the guy got real info, put it out with a "soon" timeline & it got a lot more publicity than he thought & he tried to save face with tweets.

 

I do think he knows someone & got some second hand info, that could end up being correct but essentially cracked under the pressure of twitter & people asking him every 5 minutes.

 

I don't think he maliciously did it & I don't think he was particularly doing it for trolling attention. I think he got info from someone he trusted & he either jumped the gun or it was bad info.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

That Patrick person is full back pedal

 

@PatrickHoward50 Sorry for jumping the gun on Yoenis Cespedes news. Will report back if I hear anything concrete! #WhiteSox.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

So after collecting some info on all of this, I think the guy got real info, put it out with a "soon" timeline & it got a lot more publicity than he thought & he tried to save face with tweets.

 

I do think he knows someone & got some second hand info, that could end up being correct but essentially cracked under the pressure of twitter & people asking him every 5 minutes.

 

I don't think he maliciously did it & I don't think he was particularly doing it for trolling attention. I think he got info from someone he trusted & he either jumped the gun or it was bad info.

 

I'm not going to crush him like the idiots are. I took it with a grain of salt in the first place.

[GGajewski18]

Hahn is at the Bulls game right now! Comcast just showed him on tv. Why isn't he signing Cespedes right now?!?!?!

[Dick Allen]

https://www.overdrive.com/media/709737/wilpons-folly

 

Just read anything from Megdal on Wilpon and the Mets. There's no way in hell they can afford Cespedes in 2018/19, and they can't afford the risk with signing him of being stuck with that contract since they already have $30 million balloon payments due on the Madoff settlement each year, basically like signing another Cespedes (+) except the money an outflow to creditors.

 

 

Going back to Ptac's point, yes, it's POSSIBLE they can compete STILL, yes, it's probably NOT wise to sign Cespedes for 6 years (let alone Upton) and certainly not Alex Gordon for five, but the fact remains that:

 

1) They don't have enough minor league talent behind Anderson/Fulmer to pull off a major trade

2) That Cabrera, Lawrie and Frazier will be free agents after 2017

3) That next year's FA market is horrific

4) That another year of .500ish baseball would almost force a Quintana or Sale megatrade because there won't even be the talent available on the market to spend even if they want to do so.

 

You can definitely see a scenario where they bring in one of Span/Parra/Jackson (no to Fowler because of the pick attached) and also add a starting pitcher that falls through the cracks for one year or one year and an option (like a Brett Anderson situation last year w/ LA, or Medlen with KC).

 

Now that's going to move the needle up a bit, but is it enough? Maybe. Maybe not. They definitely should have a better option than Beck/Turner as their 6th starter. Realistically, you need seven legit starters at the beginning of the season in terms of depth, and I'm not even 100% convinced we have five right now with question marks about Erik Johnson still looming.

 

The only other possibility is waiting for guys like Desmond and Fowler to not get signed and picking them up on "make good" or pillow deals for 1-2 years...but we all saw how poorly Kendrys Morales and Stephen Drew performed when their spring training time essentially began in May. Desmond would be more of an investment for 2017 than one with an immediate payoff in 2016. Of course, those two cases with veterans doesn't mean every single player under 30-31 will struggle to get their timing and offensive rhythm back to the same extent.

Before the White Sox traded for Frazier, you said they wouldn't be able to compete for 2 years. Now it appears you are saying just the opposite, that they have 2 years to compete. Which of the prospects given up for Frazier were the key to the future?

[southsider2k5]

Hahn is at the Bulls game right now! Comcast just showed him on tv. Why isn't he signing Cespedes right now?!?!?!

 

Nice.

[caulfield12]

Before the White Sox traded for Frazier, you said they wouldn't be able to compete for 2 years. Now it appears you are saying just the opposite, that they have 2 years to compete. Which of the prospects given up for Frazier were the key to the future?

 

2017 was always going to be the key year after most of last season's acquisitions fizzled out or under-performed badly. They re-opened that window again and went all-in, so of course the thinking has changed (once again).

 

Now, they THEORETICALLY can compete with the current roster, but you can also make an argument for every single team in the AL with that line of thinking (compared to the NL, where you can eliminate 5-6 teams instantly).

 

And they do have a current two-year window to compete (again), simply because of the players who will be leaving after 2017.

 

We also don't have the luxury of knowing how Semien would have performed if given more time (compared to what Lawrie will do, and the fact he will have to be replaced). They would also be a lot better off having Bassitt or Montas as insurance for a hole in the rotation than Jacob Turner or Beck, but we'll find out how long they can go without having to use another starting pitcher.

 

Right now, it's not looking particularly optimistic in terms of our position prospects unless Trey M., Engel, May and Hawkins make a lot more progress. We still don't have a catching solution in sight. The best-case scenario is that Fulmer and Anderson are both Rookie of the Year candidates in 2017 and 100% experienced and even better in 2018, like we expect that same progression from Rodon to take place this year.

 

Quite obviously, Upton/Cespedes (Gordon to a lesser extent) would ALSO be the bridge to a new reloading in 2018...if it happens.

Edited December 31, 2015 by caulfield12

[LittleHurt05]

Hahn is at the Bulls game right now! Comcast just showed him on tv. Why isn't he signing Cespedes right now?!?!?!

 

Steak Dinner Boom!

[Jose Abreu]

Hahn and raBBit were both at the game!! Maybe raBBit was asking him for inside information!!!!!!!!!

[Dick Allen]

2017 was always going to be the key year after most of last season's acquisitions fizzled out or under-performed badly. They re-opened that window again and went all-in, so of course the thinking has changed (once again).

 

Now, they THEORETICALLY can compete with the current roster, but you can also make an argument for every single team in the AL with that line of thinking (compared to the NL, where you can eliminate 5-6 teams instantly).

 

And they do have a current two-year window to compete (again), simply because of the players who will be leaving after 2017.

 

We also don't have the luxury of knowing how Semien would have performed if given more time (compared to what Lawrie will do, and the fact he will have to be replaced). They would also be a lot better off having Bassitt or Montas as insurance for a hole in the rotation than Jacob Turner or Beck, but we'll find out how long they can go without having to use another starting pitcher.

 

Right now, it's not looking particularly optimistic in terms of our position prospects unless Trey M., Engel, May and Hawkins make a lot more progress. We still don't have a catching solution in sight. The best-case scenario is that Fulmer and Anderson are both Rookie of the Year candidates in 2017 and 100% experienced and even better in 2018, like we expect that same progression from Rodon to take place this year.

You aren't answering the question. Melky will be gone, but that was known when you said they wouldn't compete for 2 years. Frazier wasn't here so his being gone doesn't matter, and same with Lawrie. Who are the prospects that were lost that now makes the window closed in 2 years when you said perhaps it would open then.

 

And considering you judge trades by if it in your mind sells season tickets, you should have loved the Samardzija trade. It really did sell them.

 

 

[dpd9189]

Based on Nightengale's last tweet, I believe that the Sox definitely want to sign one of the three but at their price. I think RH is probably pretty smart about not wanting to overpay on any of these guys in money or years. Cespedes is still IMO the best fit for the Sox in the short and long term. Also fills the need of a big bat which would give the Sox a very nice 3-4-5 in the order.

[caulfield12]

1) Marketing is always a consideration (partial) in every trade, baseball is a business...but it should never be the main consideration.

 

If you packaged the combination of all the players we've traded for Shark/Lawrie, what player could you acquire? We don't know. A long/er-term solution at catcher?

 

We do know we have LESS starting pitching depth as a result. Whether it will or would be needed, time will tell.

 

The biggest issue over the last 13 months isn't so much the trades as the fact that our financial flexibility has been dampened by LaRoche, Robertson, Duke, Bonifacio and Cabrera. That will be one of the main reasons given when/if they are unable to sign Cespedes/Gordon/Upton.

 

It certainly won't be the 2017 payroll, because we're shedding LaRoche and Danks.

[shago]

Cespedes's last month of the season and playoff performance last year -- truly scary

[blackmooncreeping]

So after collecting some info on all of this, I think the guy got real info, put it out with a "soon" timeline & it got a lot more publicity than he thought & he tried to save face with tweets.

 

I do think he knows someone & got some second hand info, that could end up being correct but essentially cracked under the pressure of twitter & people asking him every 5 minutes.

 

I don't think he maliciously did it & I don't think he was particularly doing it for trolling attention. I think he got info from someone he trusted & he either jumped the gun or it was bad info.

exactly my take as well