OmarComing25 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:21 PM) Weren't there reports that he was offered 200 million by other teams? By his own admission during interviews, he was offered more money elsewhere. He did not however specify the amount. Yes, he did turn down guaranteed money, but he's just making a small bet on himself. Assuming his production doesn't fall off drastically, he'll be in line to make a lot more money if he opts out. So while he technically took a discount, in reality it probably won't turn out to be a discount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:22 PM) Technically he was, but without the opt outs when he gets his money the first 3 years and then signs another huge contract. since he was offered 200 million by other teams, he is taking less for a few years, in order to boost his value in 3 years to make more than the 200 guaranteed now. this will work out provide a) he continues to produce, b) he doesn't get hurt, c) there is a team willing to spend that much more on an older player. He is really betting on himself. I think I would have gone for the big money now, if the money is his only concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 That's all if he even opt outs as was pointed out and thrown at me yesterday in the Kazmir thread. But if he's healthy and produces he'll opt out for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:23 PM) So, in other words, he signed this deal due to the opt outs not the most money in the deal. He signed it with the possibility of more money later not more money now. He's looking at $78M over three years ($26M AAV) then another $200M+ contract as a 29 year old free agent. If he gets hurt or his play suddenly falls off, he's guaranteed $184M over 8 years. He gave up roughly $16M in guaranteed money for the chance earn a ton more as a free agent in a few years. Like fathom said, he signed one of the most player friendly contracts of all time. Kudos to Theo for landing his guy, but Heyward took no discount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:23 PM) So, in other words, he signed this deal due to the opt outs not the most money in the deal. He signed it with the possibility of more money later not more money now. Isn't his average about $28 million the first 3 years? Then he could opt out. He is risking about $16 million with a chance to make a lot more. If he is great, Theo probably lets him walk, and gets 3 prime years out of him, and doesn't have to pay for the decline. I still think he is going to start hitting homers, but his defense will fall off a bit. 245 pound guys legs don't age all that well IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:25 PM) He took guaranteed less, but the option of getting another HUGE contract in three years, and if he sucks or is horrifically injured, he still gets a substantial guarantee. Correct, but the point was he didn't take the most money available. He signed to contract for other reasons than the biggest contract. He signed it with the possibility of more money later, hopefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:30 PM) Correct, but the point was he didn't take the most money available. He signed to contract for other reasons than the biggest contract. He signed it with the possibility of more money later, hopefully. Yes, true, but it isn't some fantasy discount to play for the magical Cubs, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:30 PM) Correct, but the point was he didn't take the most money available. He signed to contract for other reasons than the biggest contract. He signed it with the possibility of more money later, hopefully. Yes. But do you really think if there was no opt out he would have taken $16 million less for 8 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 More posts here than in the Frazier thread... and that actually happened. Thanks a lot, Patrick Howard (and other fake Twitter insiders). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:28 PM) since he was offered 200 million by other teams, he is taking less for a few years, in order to boost his value in 3 years to make more than the 200 guaranteed now. this will work out provide a) he continues to produce, b) he doesn't get hurt, c) there is a team willing to spend that much more on an older player. He is really betting on himself. I think I would have gone for the big money now, if the money is his only concern. He really won't be an "older player" if/when he opts out, he's 26 right now. Edited December 31, 2015 by OmarComing25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:30 PM) Isn't his average about $28 million the first 3 years? Then he could opt out. He is risking about $16 million with a chance to make a lot more. If he is great, Theo probably lets him walk, and gets 3 prime years out of him, and doesn't have to pay for the decline. I still think he is going to start hitting homers, but his defense will fall off a bit. 245 pound guys legs don't age all that well IMO. I agree. I didn't know that the AAV for the first few was that high. The cubs really front loaded it to get him to sign. That does make the difference in the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 And specifically saying he wanted to play with the Cubs' young core and Maddon as opposed to a theoretically better deal in terms of total guaranteed dollars from the Cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:28 PM) since he was offered 200 million by other teams, he is taking less for a few years, in order to boost his value in 3 years to make more than the 200 guaranteed now. this will work out provide a) he continues to produce, b) he doesn't get hurt, c) there is a team willing to spend that much more on an older player. He is really betting on himself. I think I would have gone for the big money now, if the money is his only concern. He's not taking less now though. He's getting $78M over three years. Those other deals would have most likely been back loaded. He's making more now and later assuming no sudden drop off in performance over the next three years. If so, he loses roughly $16M or so in years 6 through 8 of his contract, which is significantly less than the potential payoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:32 PM) And specifically saying he wanted to play with the Cubs' young core and Maddon as opposed to a theoretically better deal in terms of total guaranteed dollars from the Cards. Meh, I'd believe that was a big reason for him signing if there was no opt-out clause, otherwise it's just fluff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 09:32 PM) And specifically saying he wanted to play with the Cubs' young core and Maddon as opposed to a theoretically better deal in terms of total guaranteed dollars from the Cards. When he used proof of the Cardinals losing their core and listed Jon Jay and Tony Cruz, it made my BS radar go off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:32 PM) And specifically saying he wanted to play with the Cubs' young core and Maddon as opposed to a theoretically better deal in terms of total guaranteed dollars from the Cards. What would you expect him to say at a Cubs news conference? Do players say I really wish I wasn't taking this $184 million? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:31 PM) Yes. But do you really think if there was no opt out he would have taken $16 million less for 8 years? I don't know. Probably not if money is the issue. But realistically when you are talking 184 million, what's 16 million. If he wants to win or be in a good situation it may have been depending on what other teams offered the bigger money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 If the Sox do sign Gordon, it would be interesting to hear what the reasons are that he would say in his press conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:35 PM) If the Sox do sign Gordon, it would be interesting to hear what the reasons are that he would say in his press conference. Lots of talk about the Sox rotation and "new challenges". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:18 PM) Exactly. What's is AAV in the deal if he opts out after three years? And he'll most likely be looking at a $200M contract at that time from his next team. He didn't take a discount whatsoever, he simply took the over that maximized his potential earnings while also providing a nice security blanket if something went wrong for him. If he leaves after year 3, he gets all of his $20 million signing bonus, plus 15m, 21.5m, and 21.5m for the three years in salary, for a total of $78 million. That is an AAV of $26 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:35 PM) If the Sox do sign Gordon, it would be interesting to hear what the reasons are that he would say in his press conference. I agree. He really seems to want to stay in KC. However, if there offer is really low, he will come up with something. 1. He couldn't pass it up. 2. Sox are doing alot of good things. 3. Still close to his home in Neb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 09:37 PM) I agree. He really seems to want to stay in KC. However, if there offer is really low, he will come up with something. 1. He couldn't pass it up. 2. Sox are doing alot of good things. 3. Still close to his home in Neb. - Wife loves Chicago - Wants Hawk to call a home run of his - Glad to not face Sale anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:30 PM) Isn't his average about $28 million the first 3 years? Then he could opt out. He is risking about $16 million with a chance to make a lot more. If he is great, Theo probably lets him walk, and gets 3 prime years out of him, and doesn't have to pay for the decline. I still think he is going to start hitting homers, but his defense will fall off a bit. 245 pound guys legs don't age all that well IMO. Agree I think he will hit for some more power and his defense will decline in center though I still believe he is in RF come opening day. Edited December 31, 2015 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:32 PM) He's not taking less now though. He's getting $78M over three years. Those other deals would have most likely been back loaded. He's making more now and later assuming no sudden drop off in performance over the next three years. If so, he loses roughly $16M or so in years 6 through 8 of his contract, which is significantly less than the potential payoff. Sure he is. He signed a 184 million deal instead of a 200 million deal. If he dislocates his hip this year he will make less money. He signed it with the intention of opting out to make more later. He is betting on himself to continue to produce at a high level for three years to make more later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:51 PM) Sure he is. He signed a 184 million deal instead of a 200 million deal. If he dislocates his hip this year he will make less money. He signed it with the intention of opting out to make more later. He is betting on himself to continue to produce at a high level for three years to make more later. In terms of NOW, I doubt any of the deals he was offered gave him $76 million in the first three years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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