Cespedes Re-signs with the Mets

[Dick Allen]

Nightingale says Upton. I am sure they have checked in on both. I would prefer Upton, but wouldn't be sad if Cespedes is in the line up. KW went after Upton many moons ago, so I would imagine the White Sox still feel fondly about him.

 

 

I also think RH and KW pretty much view most players the similarly, so if they wanted him then, Hahn probably would like to have him now. Hahn was trained by KW, you don't work together as long as they have with polar opposite philosophies. There will be differences, but not like it seems many assume. Hahn took his name out of consideration for the St. Louis job when he found out the farm director had the owner's direct ear, and could undermine the GM. That doesn't sound like a guy who would assume the Sox GM job to be a puppet.

 

I think the White Sox preference is Upton. But the contract plays a huge roll.

[Kyyle23]

FWIW Levine has been really talking up Cespedes for the White Sox.

 

Yea he also really talked up Samardzija to the Cubs, and Quintana to the Cubs for Baez

[Dick Allen]

Yea he also really talked up Samardzija to the Cubs, and Quintana to the Cubs for Baez

He also staked his reputation on the White Sox signing Omar Vizquel around 2008 or so. He signed with SF.

[LDF]

Nightingale says Upton. I am sure they have checked in on both. I would prefer Upton, but wouldn't be sad if Cespedes is in the line up. KW went after Upton many moons ago, so I would imagine the White Sox still feel fondly about him.

 

 

I also think RH and KW pretty much view most players the similarly, so if they wanted him then, Hahn probably would like to have him now. Hahn was trained by KW, you don't work together as long as they have with polar opposite philosophies. There will be differences, but not like it seems many assume. Hahn took his name out of consideration for the St. Louis job when he found out the farm director had the owner's direct ear, and could undermine the GM. That doesn't sound like a guy who would assume the Sox GM job to be a puppet.

 

I think the White Sox preference is Upton. But the contract plays a huge roll.

 

chain of command. that is the difference. kw only superior he answers to, or is directly above him is the owners. while hahn boss and who he answers to is kw then the owners.

 

the farm directly has people who is or should be above him in the chain of command.

[LDF]

He also staked his reputation on the White Sox signing Omar Vizquel around 2008 or so. He signed with SF.

 

a great point, but either way, it is a nice topic for conversation.

[GGajewski18]

Nightingale says Upton. I am sure they have checked in on both. I would prefer Upton, but wouldn't be sad if Cespedes is in the line up. KW went after Upton many moons ago, so I would imagine the White Sox still feel fondly about him.

 

 

I also think RH and KW pretty much view most players the similarly, so if they wanted him then, Hahn probably would like to have him now. Hahn was trained by KW, you don't work together as long as they have with polar opposite philosophies. There will be differences, but not like it seems many assume. Hahn took his name out of consideration for the St. Louis job when he found out the farm director had the owner's direct ear, and could undermine the GM. That doesn't sound like a guy who would assume the Sox GM job to be a puppet.

 

I think the White Sox preference is Upton. But the contract plays a huge roll.

 

On this FA OF matter, I've agreed with every word you've said. I too would definitely prefer Upton, but wouldn't mind Cespedes.

 

My reason for Upton is because he is 2 years younger, gets on base more than Cespedes, has the same amount of pop (if not more), and Upton can steal some bases.

 

Plus, I think Upton would compliment Frazier & Abreu more than Cespedes would. I'd rather have 2 guys get on base more in Abreu and Upton (350 OBP) than 2 guys in Frazier and Cespedes (low 300 OBP).

[southsider2k5]

FWIW Levine has been really talking up Cespedes for the White Sox.

 

When means they are looking at Upton.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I was just putting out what I heard on the radio today and he even has an article on Cespedes to Chicago. Well see.

[caulfield12]

Are we talking about Luhnow undermining Mozeliak or the group that was involved in the database hacking scandal more recently?

 

Because Luhnow also took 2-3 other guys with him to Houston.

 

There were actually three factions, and Jocketty got pushed out and LaRussa/Duncan left as well.

 

[Quin]

What?

[southsider2k5]

What?

 

[Dick Allen]

I agree here but where did you get the information on the bolded.

One of the "insiders" on MLBN sort of mentioned it in passing one day. I can't remember if it was Heyman or Rosenthal, but I think it was Heyman.

[Lillian]

On this FA OF matter, I've agreed with every word you've said. I too would definitely prefer Upton, but wouldn't mind Cespedes.

 

My reason for Upton is because he is 2 years younger, gets on base more than Cespedes, has the same amount of pop (if not more), and Upton can steal some bases.

 

Plus, I think Upton would compliment Frazier & Abreu more than Cespedes would. I'd rather have 2 guys get on base more in Abreu and Upton (350 OBP) than 2 guys in Frazier and Cespedes (low 300 OBP).

 

You make a very valid and important point. Having added Lawrie and Frazier, both who have power, but not great on base %, adding a power hitter, who also possesses that skill is more valuable. It should also be noted that the returning players on this roster are not good OBP hitters.

 

Another way to look at it is this: Low OBP was one of the major flaws of this team, last season, and the additions the front office has made, so far, have not done anything to address that issue. They have added power, but not OBP. Upton is the guy who can help accomplish that. It's a bonus that he can also hit for big power.

Upton should be the guy, even if he cost that draft pick, which Cespedes does not.

 

Another, less tangible advantage of adding players with better OBP skills, is that it might "rub off" on some of the younger, impatient hitters, like Avi and Lawrie. They sure don't need any more bad influence in plate discipline, such as the free swinging Cespedes. Don't misunderstand, I'd be thrilled with him too, but Upton would be a better influence.

[GGajewski18]

You make a very valid and important point. Having added Lawrie and Frazier, both who have power, but not great on base %, adding a power hitter, who also possesses that skill is more valuable. It should also be noted that the returning players on this roster are not good OBP hitters.

 

Another way to look at it is this: Low OBP was one of the major flaws of this team, last season, and the additions the front office has made, so far, have not done anything to address that issue. They have added power, but not OBP. Upton is the guy who can help accomplish that. It's a bonus that he can also hit for big power.

Upton should be the guy, even if he cost that draft pick, which Cespedes does not.

 

Another, less tangible advantage of adding players with better OBP skills, is that it might "rub off" on some of the younger, impatient hitters, like Avi and Lawrie. They sure don't need any more bad influence in plate discipline, such as the free swinging Cespedes. Don't misunderstand, I'd be thrilled with him too, but Upton would be a better influence.

 

Exactly. Putting Upton behind Abreu would lengthen the lineup and bump Frazier down to 5 where he can think about that power instead of drawing walks, if that makes sense.

[blackmooncreeping]

Exactly. Putting Upton behind Abreu would lengthen the lineup and bump Frazier down to 5 where he can think about that power instead of drawing walks, if that makes sense.

Agreed. The lineup is much better with Frazier at 5 looking to drive in runs then in the 3 hole. Jose should definitely be hitting 3rd

[VAfan]

On this FA OF matter, I've agreed with every word you've said. I too would definitely prefer Upton, but wouldn't mind Cespedes.

 

My reason for Upton is because he is 2 years younger, gets on base more than Cespedes, has the same amount of pop (if not more), and Upton can steal some bases.

 

Plus, I think Upton would compliment Frazier & Abreu more than Cespedes would. I'd rather have 2 guys get on base more in Abreu and Upton (350 OBP) than 2 guys in Frazier and Cespedes (low 300 OBP).

 

I prefer Cespedes, for several reasons.

 

1. He's made a much bigger difference for the teams he's been on. It's been pointed out elsewhere, but Oakland tanked offensively after they traded Cespedes and barely made the one-game playoff after leading the AL West most of the season.

 

2. When he joined the Mets, they became offensive juggernauts in the second half, and blew away the Nats.

 

3. As a fellow Cuban, I think he and Abreu would have a friendly competition for best hitter on the team, spurring each on to higher heights.

 

4. He doesn't cost a draft pick, which is important.

 

5. His age likely lets the Sox get him for fewer years, which lowers their risk.

 

6. He's proven he can hit in the AL.

 

Upton to me is only a numbers guy who hasn't helped most of the teams he's been on win. Cespedes seems like a much bigger force as a player on his teams.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Exactly. Putting Upton behind Abreu would lengthen the lineup and bump Frazier down to 5 where he can think about that power instead of drawing walks, if that makes sense.

 

I wonder if RV might use Abreu in the 2 again.

 

Eaton CF

Abreu 1B

Cespedes RF/LF

Fraizer 3B

Melky RF/LF or LaRorche DH

Lawrie 2B

Melky or Laroche

Catcher platoon

Saladino SS

 

I remember reading an article about having your best hitter bat 2nd.

 

Also balances out the lineup a bit more.

 

[fathom]

I wonder if RV might use Abreu in the 2 again.

 

Eaton CF

Abreu 1B

Cespedes RF/LF

Fraizer 3B

Melky RF/LF or LaRorche DH

Lawrie 2B

Melky or Laroche

Catcher platoon

Saladino SS

 

I remember reading an article about having your best hitter bat 2nd.

 

Also balances out the lineup a bit more.

 

But it would seem to increase the chances Abreu would bat with no one on, as Saladino is much more likely to have a lower OBP than Melky

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Nah fresh year. Bat Melky in 2-hole.

[Lillian]

Exactly. Putting Upton behind Abreu would lengthen the lineup and bump Frazier down to 5 where he can think about that power instead of drawing walks, if that makes sense.

 

This makes a lot of sense. The logic is very compelling to me. Of course, there are all kinds of other factors to consider, but this on base percentage point should be given a lot of weight in their decision. I'm sure that they know that. Perhaps that's why the rumors seem to link the Sox more to Upton, than Cespedes.

[GGajewski18]

This makes a lot of sense. The logic is very compelling to me. Of course, there are all kinds of other factors to consider, but this on base percentage point should be given a lot of weight in their decision. I'm sure that they know that. Perhaps that's why the rumors seem to link the Sox more to Upton, than Cespedes.

 

I could see why Cespedes because he is better defensively than Upton, but at the same time, Upton isn't a bad defender. He's average to above average.

 

In Cespedes 4 years, he's had 2 years with an OPS above 800 (737, 751).

 

In Upton's 8 full years in the league, he's had an OPS 5 years with an OPS above 800 (799, 785, 790).

 

Cespedes has a career on base of 319, while Upton's is 352.

 

Hahn has stated that he's looked at more offense this year. Offensively, I think Upton is the safer bet than Cespedes.

 

Also, like others have said, don't mention the draft pick. When you plan on investing over 100 million on a player, the draft pick should not interfere with a game plan.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I wonder if RV might use Abreu in the 2 again.

 

Eaton CF

Abreu 1B

Cespedes RF/LF

Fraizer 3B

Melky RF/LF or LaRorche DH

Lawrie 2B

Melky or Laroche

Catcher platoon

Saladino SS

 

I remember reading an article about having your best hitter bat 2nd.

 

Also balances out the lineup a bit more.

 

 

Cespedes doesn't play RF. I think Upton is the best fit. If they signed Upton and someone like Austin Jackson they could do this:

 

vs RHP

1. Eaton CF

2.Cabrera LF

3. Abreu 1B

4. Upton RF

5. Frazier 3B

6.LaRoche DH

7. Lawrie 2B

8. Avila C

9. Saladino SS

 

vs LHP

 

1. Eaton LF

2. Cabrera DH

3. Abreu 1B

4. Upton RF

5. Frazier 3B

6. Navarro C

7. Lawrie 2B

8. Jackson CF

9. Saladino SS

 

[GGajewski18]

Cespedes doesn't play RF. I think Upton is the best fit. If they signed Upton and someone like Austin Jackson they could do this:

 

vs RHP

1. Eaton CF

2.Cabrera LF

3. Abreu 1B

4. Upton RF

5. Frazier 3B

6.LaRoche DH

7. Lawrie 2B

8. Avila C

9. Saladino SS

 

vs LHP

 

1. Eaton LF

2. Cabrera DH

3. Abreu 1B

4. Upton RF

5. Frazier 3B

6. Navarro C

7. Lawrie 2B

8. Jackson CF

9. Saladino SS

 

Trading Avi for some pitching?

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Trading Avi for some pitching?

No because he has no value. Keep him one more year.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Trading Avi for some pitching?

 

 

Or some used catching equipment.