Cespedes Re-signs with the Mets

[bigruss]

The point? The point is that there are lots of options for teams looking for bats this year, but not much next year, or the following. It's just a matter of supply and demand. If a player is young enough, he can play for a bigger pay day, in the next two years, and in the meantime, $25 Million per year isn't exactly "chopped liver". Of course, there is a risk for the players, but then

that's just the nature of the "game", they're playing.

 

I'm always mindful of the advantage of having guys stay "hungry" and motivated. Such a scenario would certainly do that.

LOL I get economics, but neither of those players are looking for those kinds of deals.

 

Upton is either getting a megadeal or settling for a big 1 yr deal so he can maximize on the weak FA next year.

 

Cespedes will want to capitalize on a career year, he'll take as much money as he possibly can. A 2 year deal makes no sense at age 30 for him.

[bigruss]

SO you are in the negotiating rooms now? There are published thoughts on Upton possibly on the brink of taking a 1 year deal. For multiple reasons posted on this board it could make perfect sense if they are finding a depressed market this time around--and that seems to be the case.

Yes I am in the negotiation rooms, are you not?

[Lillian]

LOL I get economics, but neither of those players are looking for those kinds of deals.

 

Upton is either getting a megadeal or settling for a big 1 yr deal so he can maximize on the weak FA next year.

 

Cespedes will want to capitalize on a career year, he'll take as much money as he possibly can. A 2 year deal makes no sense at age 30 for him.

 

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to infer that you didn't "get" economics. However, I think you missed the point that this idea includes an opt out, after the first year. It is essentially what you are suggesting, with a little added security for the player, who has two guaranteed years, at a very generous salary, with the privilege to opt out, if he can do better.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Lillian

[blackmooncreeping]

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to infer that you didn't "get" economics. However, I think you missed the point that this idea includes an opt out, after the first year. It is essentially what you are suggesting, with a little added security for the player, who has two guaranteed years, at a very generous salary, with the privilege to opt out, if he can do better.

Thank you. Makes perfect sense in a depressed market, if that's indeed where we are at. Of course each guy wants max years and dollars, but you can't sign a contract that isn't there. Hell, both should prefer a shorter deal if all they are finding is 3 year offers that end in a FA class that is projected to be very deep.

Edited January 8, 2016 by blackmooncreeping

[Dick Allen]

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to infer that you didn't "get" economics. However, I think you missed the point that this idea includes an opt out, after the first year. It is essentially what you are suggesting, with a little added security for the player, who has two guaranteed years, at a very generous salary, with the privilege to opt out, if he can do better.

The only problem with a 1 year opt out is if the free agent class is so bad next year,and they opt out and move along, the Sox have a problem again, but they do have a couple guys off the books, and as long as you are willing to pick up a lot of money, you can get good players for mediocre prospects.

[harfman77]

At this point I think Upton is going to take a one year deal someplace, and if is going to take a one year deal, its not going to be with the Sox (thinking the Rangers). I can see the Sox still getting Cespedes on a deal structured like Heywards, frontloaded over the first three years with an opt out after that, and maybe a mutual/team option for a fifth year.

[blackmooncreeping]

At this point I think Upton is going to take a one year deal someplace, and if is going to take a one year deal, its not going to be with the Sox (thinking the Rangers). I can see the Sox still getting Cespedes on a deal structured like Heywards, frontloaded over the first three years with an opt out after that, and maybe a mutual/team option for a fifth year.

The opt out after 3 years isn't going to work as that leaves him entering what is projected to be a very deep FA pool at that point. It's gotta have an opt out after the 2nd year imo to get them interested.

[caulfield12]

That's the risk of overpaying Upton on a one year deal.

 

You have holes at SS, starting rotation, DH or RF depending what you do with Melky....so you're losing a draft pick only to gain it back and push that pick's impact back another year to the point where Sale and Abreu might not even be around.

 

Assuming it's $23-27 million for one year, it's also going to make it difficult to find budget space to add much else at the All-Star break.

 

Everything right now is predicated on the team being better with Anderson and Fulmer contributing fully in 2017 compared to Saladino and Johnson/Danks.

 

So you can't add anyone like Upton, Cespedes or Davis for just one year unless it's that veteran starting pitcher...it really has to be two and ideally three or two plus a realistic option.

 

 

As for Ian Desmond, same thing...can't be just one year, you have to control his rights at least into 2017. If he was to start playing other positions, he'd need a full offseason to prepare obviously. Right now, he's a SS only but with defensive concerns or issues, a lot of GMs feel he'd hit much better if he could escape the pressure of that position.

 

Yes, I was quite obviously being sarcastic. SS is the most athletic position on the infield...most similar to CF, let alone a corner. There have been quite a few 3b and 1b who have managed to play the corner outfield spots as well. Basically like a Zobrist, Chone Figgins or Tony Phillips type of role...rotating in at DH as well occasionally.

Edited January 8, 2016 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

That's the risk of overpaying Upton on a one year deal.

 

You have holes at SS, starting rotation, DH or RF depending what you do with Melky....so you're losing a draft pick only to gain it back and push that pick's impact back another year to the point where Sale and Abreu might not even be around.

 

Assuming it's $23-27 million for one year, it's also going to make it difficult to find budget space to add much else at the All-Star break.

 

Everything right now is predicated on the team being better with Anderson and Fulmer contributing fully in 2017 compared to Saladino and Johnson/Danks.

 

So you can't add anyone like Upton, Cespedes or Davis for just one year unless it's that veteran starting pitcher...it really has to be two and ideally three or two plus a realistic option.

 

 

As for Ian Desmond, same thing...can't be just one year, you have to control his rights at least into 2017. If he was to start playing other positions, he'd need a full offseason to prepare obviously. Right now, he's a SS only but with defensive concerns or issues, a lot of GMs feel he'd hit much better if he could escape the pressure of that position.

 

Yes, I was quite obviously being sarcastic. SS is the most athletic position on the infield...most similar to CF, let alone a corner. There have been quite a few 3b and 1b who have managed to play the corner outfield spots as well. Basically like a Zobrist, Chone Figgins or Tony Phillips type of role...rotating in at DH as well occasionally.

LMAO

[caulfield12]

At this point I think Upton is going to take a one year deal someplace, and if is going to take a one year deal, its not going to be with the Sox (thinking the Rangers). I can see the Sox still getting Cespedes on a deal structured like Heywards, frontloaded over the first three years with an opt out after that, and maybe a mutual/team option for a fifth year.

 

Tigers would seem a good candidate, or StL...those are two teams clearly in win now/must compete mode.

 

Detroit didn't add KRod, Lowe, J. Wilson, Zimmerman, Daniel Norris, Maybin, etc., to come up one big impact addition short to their line-up.

 

The problem is they would much rather have Cespedes back for one year than gamble it all on Upton making a smooth and quick transition to the AL.

 

And one year deals put quite a few more teams into consideration...that couldn't make 4-6 year deals work from a long-term budget standpoint.

[ptatc]

Jeff Passan is reporting that Upton might be willing to take a 1 year deal. so he could be right.

 

does that mean he would fall into Hahn's plan of not giving any of there FA OF'ers more than 3 years?

Everyone was so pissed at RH for sticking to his plan of no deals longer then 3 years and convinced that the sox had no chance. Now the agents are going to the other extrme .RH is going to try to work the giving up a pick angle to bring the offer up from 1 year to suit the team better.

 

It may not work but RH is really working the market well with few teams involved.

[caulfield12]

LMAO

 

This kind of comment is quite beneficial to the conversation. Thanks!

 

Almost like writing something's going to break today repeatedly.

[bmags]

Everyone was so pissed at RH for sticking to his plan of no deals longer then 3 years and convinced that the sox had no chance. Now the agents are going to the other extrme .RH is going to try to work the giving up a pick angle to bring the offer up from 1 year to suit the team better.

 

It may not work but RH is really working the market well with few teams involved.

 

I don't think it's necessarily a good thing. 1 year deals may bring a lot of teams out of the woodwork and pay them at a price we can't afford.

 

It's a really smart move by upton's agent, I don't think he actually will go 1 year but it's a way to create some bidding of services.

[caulfield12]

Everyone was so pissed at RH for sticking to his plan of no deals longer then 3 years and convinced that the sox had no chance. Now the agents are going to the other extrme .RH is going to try to work the giving up a pick angle to bring the offer up from 1 year to suit the team better.

 

It may not work but RH is really working the market well with few teams involved.

 

How does anyone possibly know whether that last sentence is true or not...? That's the problem, this whole thread is conjecture, right? What do we know factually that 100% can't be debated?

 

Only if the White Sox can get one of them signed somehow? Sure, it makes sense if each player only has a couple of options to choose from...but that's quite difficult to believe.

[ptatc]

I don't think it's necessarily a good thing. 1 year deals may bring a lot of teams out of the woodwork and pay them at a price we can't afford.

 

It's a really smart move by upton's agent, I don't think he actually will go 1 year but it's a way to create some bidding of services.

I would rather lose out on the players than be stuck in a 6 year deal with them, especially cespedes. I think it works out well. If upton signs a one year deal, whatis the market for cespedes, who is probably RHs target.

[blackmooncreeping]

Everyone was so pissed at RH for sticking to his plan of no deals longer then 3 years and convinced that the sox had no chance. Now the agents are going to the other extrme .RH is going to try to work the giving up a pick angle to bring the offer up from 1 year to suit the team better.

 

It may not work but RH is really working the market well with few teams involved.

This is my hope, and if Passan is right at all on Upton and possibly taking a 1 year deal then the market may indeed come back to Hahn & Co.

 

It's going to either be "Hahn has BALLS OF STEEL" after he correctly reads the market and lands YC, or "Hahn is such a friggin idiot" if we dance around for a month+ and end up whiffing. Feast or famine, comes with the territory of being a GM.

[southsider2k5]

This is my hope, and if Passan is right at all on Upton and possibly taking a 1 year deal then the market may indeed come back to Hahn & Co.

 

It's going to either be "Hahn has BALLS OF STEEL" after he correctly reads the market and lands YC, or "Hahn is such a friggin idiot" if we dance around for a month+ and end up whiffing. Feast or famine, comes with the territory of being a GM.

 

And either reaction will be ridiculously overdone by Sox fans.

[blackmooncreeping]

I don't think it's necessarily a good thing. 1 year deals may bring a lot of teams out of the woodwork and pay them at a price we can't afford.

 

It's a really smart move by upton's agent, I don't think he actually will go 1 year but it's a way to create some bidding of services.

Probably right. If Upton can get a fat 1 year deal, he can probably get a fat 2 year deal as well. Bid up the AAV and jump back into the market a year before the deep class hits.

[ptatc]

How does anyone possibly know whether that last sentence is true or not...? That's the problem, this whole thread is conjecture, right? What do we know factually that 100% can't be debated?

 

Only if the White Sox can get one of them signed somehow? Sure, it makes sense if each player only has a couple of options to choose from...but that's quite difficult to believe.

Only going by media reports and the fact that whatever teams are involved are obviously not trying to outbid one another if upton is possibly going to take a 1 year deal. Usually if many teams are involved a bidding war starts. This hasnt happend as the offers are going down not up.

 

More teams could get involved now that the price is going down not up.

[Princess Dye]

Dan McIntyre ‏@dmcintyre1991 4m4 minutes ago

Rosenthal on MLB network says Sox still likely to get big OF and Desmond and Alexei still possibilities at SS. This offseason is slow

[fathom]

And either reaction will be ridiculously overdone by Sox fans.

 

oh come on, you know if they don't get a big OF, people will blame it on Kenny

[Whisox05]

Dan McIntyre ‏@dmcintyre1991 4m4 minutes ago

Rosenthal on MLB network says Sox still likely to get big OF and Desmond and Alexei still possibilities at SS. This offseason is slow

 

If Sox get Cespedes then sign Desmond to a yr deal they only give up on pick this year and can recoup the pick next year from desmond.

[caulfield12]

Hahn=brilliant moves for Lawrie and Frazier

 

KW and spendthrift JR=directly responsible for not getting any of the bigger targets remaining on the board

[fathom]

Hahn=brilliant moves for Lawrie and Frazier

 

KW and spendthrift JR=directly responsible for not getting any of the bigger targets remaining on the board

 

Agreed, which is ironic because in past years, people blamed KW for going after the big names.

[blackmooncreeping]

If Sox get Cespedes then sign Desmond to a yr deal they only give up on pick this year and can recoup the pick next year from desmond.

That would require a significant bump up in payroll, yes?