Sox Acquire All-Star 3B Todd Frazier from Reds in 3 team deal

[GGajewski18]

Add Upton and our pitching staff and I'd say Chicago's best team is on the South Side

 

I disagree with that lol. Cubs are really good, but we add Upton, we will be solid as it gets in the AL.

[Chisoxfn]

http://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=Team

 

Projected WAR now at 33.6, Cleveland is at 38.0, so 2nd in the ALC right now according to Fangraphs, but like you said the Royals are probably undervalued here, even though I think they've been considerably weakened.

So an outfield bat would put us closer to the Tribe, but the big area we get crushed is the rotation. Losing Shark puts more pressure on Rodon in what will be his first full year as well as additional pressure on Erik Johnson to come around. We do have Fulmer in the wings, but I still think it is unrealistic to project a ton around him. We have to hope we see the EJ of most of his career and that he can take a step forward and build off of his 2015 campaign. He (and say Rodon), along with health, might be the keys to the Sox season.

 

Interesting how high a team like the Red Sox ranks, given where they performed and the fact that they made two big moves. Shows you how far below plan the 2015 team played as well (must be getting a lot of positive regression).

[NorthSideSox72]

For the record, I like the trade. But just to keep something in mind, look at this list:

 

Frankie Montas (TRADED)

Micah Johnson (TRADED)

Trayce Thompson (TRADED)

Tyler Saladino (GRADUATED)

Zack Erwin (TRADED)

Myles Jaye (TRADED)

Yency Almonte (TRADED)

JB Wendelken (TRADED)

Junior Guerra (CLAIM)

 

Those are all prospects that were either in the summer Top 30, or were likely to become that in January (in Almonte's case), all of whom the team has lost in a few weeks. Just pointing out that, this Frazier deal was good, but in exchange the team has taken a pretty big bite out of the system. They kept the top two in Anderson and Fulmer, but beyond that, an already not-fantastic list is much thinner now.

 

[Dick Allen]

Chuck Garfien ‏@ChuckGarfien 28s28 seconds ago

Can the White Sox get into the Upton/Cespedes/Gordon sweepstakes? Hahn said "We shall see."

That is beyond encouraging. .

[Quin]

Hahn just said they are not satisfied

 

Good.

[Balta1701]

So an outfield bat would put us closer to the Tribe, but the big area we get crushed is the rotation. Losing Shark puts more pressure on Rodon in what will be his first full year as well as additional pressure on Erik Johnson to come around. We do have Fulmer in the wings, but I still think it is unrealistic to project a ton around him. We have to hope we see the EJ of most of his career and that he can take a step forward and build off of his 2015 campaign. He (and say Rodon), along with health, might be the keys to the Sox season.

One of the big worries I'd have on that ground is that the White Sox themselves voiced a lack of confidence in EJ by shopping for a RH starter to replace him.

[Frank_Thomas]

Another great move by Hahn and the FO. I love seeing how determined they were not to give up anyone they didn't want to to CIN and in order to get the guy they wanted they sought out LAA to facilitate the trade. As far as the pundits hating it or not liking the move, that a good thing IMO. They loved everything we did last year and we stunk. We as fans are happy and know we got a good deal for a guy who really fits what we are looking for I a lot of ways. Very happy.

 

 

But I do hope we go out and get Upton or Cespedes. You add one of these guys and we are right there at the cusp of competing for a division title.

 

Do you think Upton and Cespedes sign before Xmas?

[Knackattack]

The Cubs put up nearly 50 fWAR last year. The Royals put up 38.3. The Astros put up 44.6. The Indians put up 42.8. The White Sox put up 23.5.

 

If the White Sox replaced Avi Garcia with a 4 win player, and they were already 6 WAR better than the end of the year using your numbers, they would still need a lot of people to step up their performance or to get really lucky to put a team on the field that is a division contender. And again, that's assuming somehow we're as healthy as we were last year, which was a miracle in its own right.

And we received negative numbers at RF, 2B, 3B, and LF (if my memory serves correct). The addition of positive WAR players at 3b (Frazier puts up a 3.5 lets say, I think we were -2.8 at 3rd last year - translates to a 6.3 improvement and already puts the White Sox at 30), 2B (I see Lawrie as a 2 WAR 2B) and an improvement in the OF and we should be right at where the Royals were last year. Add in the improvement of no Shark, a seasoned Rodon, and a full season of Sale and where would that leave us?

[Chisoxfn]

That is beyond encouraging. .

Making that big of a public statement is huge. Lets us know that they fully intend to do something else. Also nice that our two potential elite chips and guys capable of being game changers are still in our system (Anderson & Fullmer). Montas was an upper class prospect, imo (I think people here are underselling him) but Anderson and Fullmer are at another level. Doesn't mean they pan out, but those are the chips I'm worried about. You need to have solid depth around for various reasons but I like using your non-top talent for major league talent.

[Chisoxfn]

One of the big worries I'd have on that ground is that the White Sox themselves voiced a lack of confidence in EJ by shopping for a RH starter to replace him.

Who did we shop for this off-season?

[chitownsportsfan]

So an outfield bat would put us closer to the Tribe, but the big area we get crushed is the rotation. Losing Shark puts more pressure on Rodon in what will be his first full year as well as additional pressure on Erik Johnson to come around. We do have Fulmer in the wings, but I still think it is unrealistic to project a ton around him. We have to hope we see the EJ of most of his career and that he can take a step forward and build off of his 2015 campaign. He (and say Rodon), along with health, might be the keys to the Sox season.

 

Interesting how high a team like the Red Sox ranks, given where they performed and the fact that they made two big moves. Shows you how far below plan the 2015 team played as well (must be getting a lot of positive regression).

 

Yea I agree. Fangraphs has the Sox at 14.6 project WAR from SP. That figure could end up quite a bit higher given the upside of Johnson and Rodon. Sox need Rodon and Johnson to come out with their hair on fire.

Edited December 16, 2015 by chitownsportsfan

[Baron]

Making that big of a public statement is huge. Lets us know that they fully intend to do something else.

 

 

I love when they drop those hints. Like Kenny before the Eaton trade saying "You'll see".

 

 

[Knackattack]

For the record, I like the trade. But just to keep something in mind, look at this list:

 

Frankie Montas (TRADED)

Micah Johnson (TRADED)

Trayce Thompson (TRADED)

Tyler Saladino (GRADUATED)

Zack Erwin (TRADED)

Myles Jaye (TRADED)

Yency Almonte (TRADED)

JB Wendelken (TRADED)

Junior Guerra (CLAIM)

 

Those are all prospects that were either in the summer Top 30, or were likely to become that in January (in Almonte's case), all of whom the team has lost in a few weeks. Just pointing out that, this Frazier deal was good, but in exchange the team has taken a pretty big bite out of the system. They kept the top two in Anderson and Fulmer, but beyond that, an already not-fantastic list is much thinner now.

3 top 50 picks should help. Even 2 in the top 50 to add a couple high upside players to Fulmer/Anderson should be helpful. Plus, how many of those guys were top 15 prospects? Not very often I would imagine a team cares about adding the 18th ranked prospect in a system... so these guys aren't a major loss, IMO.

[Balta1701]

Who did we shop for this off-season?

Here's a quickly found thread on Ivan Nova.

[fathom]

For the record, I like the trade. But just to keep something in mind, look at this list:

 

Frankie Montas (TRADED)

Micah Johnson (TRADED)

Trayce Thompson (TRADED)

Tyler Saladino (GRADUATED)

Zack Erwin (TRADED)

Myles Jaye (TRADED)

Yency Almonte (TRADED)

JB Wendelken (TRADED)

Junior Guerra (CLAIM)

 

Those are all prospects that were either in the summer Top 30, or were likely to become that in January (in Almonte's case), all of whom the team has lost in a few weeks. Just pointing out that, this Frazier deal was good, but in exchange the team has taken a pretty big bite out of the system. They kept the top two in Anderson and Fulmer, but beyond that, an already not-fantastic list is much thinner now.

 

And after the upcoming draft, we will have three prospects that should be top 15 off the bat.

[Chisoxfn]

Yea I agree. Fangraphs has the Sox at 14.6 project WAR from SP. That figure could end up quite a bit higher given the upside of Johnson and Rodon. Sox need Rodon and Johnson to come out with their hair on fire.

Honestly..could be worse. Injury to one of our good pitchers or Rodon / Johnson blow up. Danks could fall apart. I realize Shark sucked last year, but with Shark I'd be exstatic. Their is a lot more uncertainty in our rotation than a year ago. Could work in our favor though and I tend to trust the Sox long term track record with pitching.

[Balta1701]

And after the upcoming draft, we will have three prospects that should be top 15 off the bat.

Assuming we don't sign anyone.

[fathom]

3 top 50 picks should help. Even 2 in the top 50 to add a couple high upside players to Fulmer/Anderson should be helpful. Plus, how many of those guys were top 15 prospects? Not very often I would imagine a team cares about adding the 18th ranked prospect in a system... so these guys aren't a major loss, IMO.

 

I love this post so much

[shysocks]

Here's a quickly found thread on Ivan Nova.

That article doesn't even say that the White Sox are interested. Just that they have been in the past. It's all speculative.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[SoxAce]

Yea I agree. Fangraphs has the Sox at 14.6 project WAR from SP. That figure could end up quite a bit higher given the upside of Johnson and Rodon. Sox need Rodon and Johnson to come out with their hair on fire.

 

They need to help them get defensive players on the field too. Sure some guys you can hide, but this pitching staff deserves some gloves behind them. As of right now, Frazier and maybe Eaton are the only guys who are solid to good defensive players. Lawrie is a question mark and he have no SS set in stone yet. Melky and/or Avi is not going to get it done. That's still not addressing the OBP situation either. I like what they're doing addressing the lack of power from last year though.

Edited December 16, 2015 by SoxAce

[Chisoxfn]

Here's a quickly found thread on Ivan Nova.

I would expect Sox to be interested in all kinds of people. Doesn't mean they don't like Johnson. Maybe they thought Johnson was going to have to be used to upgrade the offense? Either way, I have concerns around pitching so I'd hope they'd be checking to see if they could find some value. We also have no idea whether the report is actually true. It was the only pitcher we have heard associated with the Sox (so usually if you were looking to add pitching, we'd have heard some other names and targets vs. just one pitcher in particular).

[The Ginger Kid]

well, sit back and strap it down. Sounds like Rick decided to go for it. Who takes over for Ventura if this team is floundering at the end of May?

[Chisoxfn]

well, sit back and strap it down. Sounds like Rick decided to go for it. Who takes over for Ventura if this team is floundering at the end of May?

F this nonsense. I don't want to deal with another flounder. Ventura is going to kick ass and take names and get an extension after he wins the series!!

[Southwest Sider]

I think that a lot of people share their initial reactions before allowing some time to think about it and let other posts influence how they feel.

 

I learned about the trade about an hour after it happened, and as I read the initial posts my feeling was that "I hope we didn't just trade all 3 of those guys for just Frazier..."

 

As a fan, I was excited to see if TT could stick in our outfield, and to see if Montas could help the back end of our bullpen. Micah Johnson I wasn't excited about. Losing those "exciting" things hurts, initially. And then, add the idea that worries me along with several other posters, that Frazier will struggle in the AL, and right away it seems like we paid too much. I was about ready to post as such.

 

But I kept reading the thread and thoughts others have shared. The fact that we didn't have to trade Anderson or Fulmer. The significant detractors of the 3 prospects we traded. Frazier is a power hitter that this lineup desperately needs while also being above average defensively.

 

Initially, I was kind of upset, but with most trades that happen, after the initial feelings a general contentedness settles in and I feel better.

 

However, I absolutely agree that if you want to contend, you need to upgrade RF or LF, or both. Avi carries considerable risk as a starting OF for us. Our team is going to be much better off with Avi in AAA being a depth piece for us should one of our starting OFs get injured.

[shysocks]

And after the upcoming draft, we will have three prospects that should be top 15 off the bat.

Right now I'd rather have two of those three guys and a guy named Gordon or Upton.

 

...Not Gordon Beckham. Not Melvin Upton.