Sox Acquire All-Star 3B Todd Frazier from Reds in 3 team deal

[Rowand44]

Haven't read the thread yet but I will shortly.

Well, Hahn is thinking like me and others. With Frazier, the infield changes so much if we re-sign Lexi. It'll be Frazier, Lexi, Lawrie and Abreu. ON PAPER, excellent. Very sad to lose Trayce, Micah and Montas. Once again we overpaid. I realize I got what I wanted (if we re-sign Lexi; ss will be a major weakness if Saladino is there). I did get what I wanted but wow, the overpay!

 

Final comment: I know the Sox are trying now; I realize the lineup is probably worth seeing in person, buying season tickets now (if we re-sign Lexi on the cheap), but it's now up to Frazier to not be the latest NL player to SUCK in a Sox jersey. And if Frazier does suck beyond belief, even though the trade seems reasonable, Hahn should pay with his job. The FO has to get this stuff right and Sox just gave up three TOP prospects for this guy. He MUST not pull a Dunn or pull a LaRoche. He must excel or Hahn must go.

 

Please sign Lexi now for one year and an option.

You wanted to trade Rodon for Frazier but this is an overpay? LOLOLOLOL

[BigEdWalsh]

Haven't read the thread yet but I will shortly.

Well, Hahn is thinking like me and others. With Frazier, the infield changes so much if we re-sign Lexi. It'll be Frazier, Lexi, Lawrie and Abreu. ON PAPER, excellent. Very sad to lose Trayce, Micah and Montas. Once again we overpaid. I realize I got what I wanted (if we re-sign Lexi; ss will be a major weakness if Saladino is there). I did get what I wanted but wow, the overpay!

For an all star third baseman, this was not overpay. Montas, a bullpen guy with promise. Trayce, almost assuredly a 4th outfielder. Micah, a second baseman who can't field and his bat is questionable. This is overpay(!)??

 

[EvilMonkey]

I just love all the posts I read on here about how our prospects are s*** and it would take 20 of them to even land a middle tier trade, but god forbid we trade prospects for a proven player and peolpe go ape-s*** about how we 'over paid!'. We sold high on 3 prospects that may never amount to anything, and upgraded a black hole. Good job.

[NorthSideSox72]

3 top 50 picks should help. Even 2 in the top 50 to add a couple high upside players to Fulmer/Anderson should be helpful. Plus, how many of those guys were top 15 prospects? Not very often I would imagine a team cares about adding the 18th ranked prospect in a system... so these guys aren't a major loss, IMO.

 

And after the upcoming draft, we will have three prospects that should be top 15 off the bat.

 

Agreed. As I said, not big prospects. Montas and Micah were Top 15 guys, actually Thompson was too, so... it isn't a huge loss, and I agree it was the way to go. Just pointing out that there is a consequence worth noting.

 

[SoxAce]

I feel like all the people bemoaning Trayce being traded didn't know who Trayce was or barely knew who he was before August. When Future Sox writers aren't trashing this deal, you can try to feel good about it.

 

Don't say all Q. You're better than that. Me and Jason liked Trayce alot and we were in the FS biz/threads before quite a few people currently posting in this thread. With that said though, I like this deal alot when adding a 3B of that caliber with what we've had to trot out since Beckham's rookie season.

Edited December 16, 2015 by SoxAce

[flavum]

https://twitter.com/MLBNetworkRadio/status/...219019292868609

 

Talk to Rick Renteria too.

[GoSox05]

I like the deal and that we didn't have to give up a top prospect. Not sure how good this team will be next year, but I'm at least excited about the possibility of not being garbage.

 

Now if they were to also add a above average OF I would be really excited.

[Rowand44]

Don't say all Q. Your better than that. Me and Jason liked Trayce alot and we were in the FS biz/threads before quite a few people currently posting in this thread. With that said though, I really like this deal.

Ya but you and Gage are irrelevant.

[Quin]

Don't say all Q. Your better than that. Me and Jason liked Trayce alot and we were in the FS biz/threads before quite a few people currently posting in this thread. With that said though, I really like this deal.

 

I mean the world is ending type of bemoaning.

 

I loved Trayce's tools and potential. I wanted him to be the starting CF. But Frazier is certainly an upgrade.

[hogan873]

Haven't read the thread yet but I will shortly.

Well, Hahn is thinking like me and others. With Frazier, the infield changes so much if we re-sign Lexi. It'll be Frazier, Lexi, Lawrie and Abreu. ON PAPER, excellent. Very sad to lose Trayce, Micah and Montas. Once again we overpaid. I realize I got what I wanted (if we re-sign Lexi; ss will be a major weakness if Saladino is there). I did get what I wanted but wow, the overpay!

 

Final comment: I know the Sox are trying now; I realize the lineup is probably worth seeing in person, buying season tickets now (if we re-sign Lexi on the cheap), but it's now up to Frazier to not be the latest NL player to SUCK in a Sox jersey. And if Frazier does suck beyond belief, even though the trade seems reasonable, Hahn should pay with his job. The FO has to get this stuff right and Sox just gave up three TOP prospects for this guy. He MUST not pull a Dunn or pull a LaRoche. He must excel or Hahn must go.

 

Please sign Lexi now for one year and an option.

Two things: I believe most would say the deal was not an overpay. However, there are some who think so, but only time will tell. We'll have to see how each of them play over the next two years (and beyond for the guys we traded). Second, as much as I wouldn't mind seeing Alexei back, I disagree that it's a weakness with Saladino at SS. Defensively, he would be fine. Offensively, I'm not sure he would fare much worse than Alexei did last year.

[SoxAce]

Ya but you and Gage are irrelevant.

You take that back you putz.

[iamshack]

The "defense" point isn't a "wouldn't want him", argument, it's just "is he going to be as good as the language people are using would suggest". Some of that is also me wondering whether I understand the defensive stats enough, because Bryant being right next to Frazier seems to make no sense to me if Bryant is a guy who should be moved away from 3b and Frazier is "Well above average".

 

The "wouldn't want him" part comes from me continuing to think this team is no where near as good as they want to believe they are.

I dunno...baseball is a strange game.

 

I enjoy the different methods of projecting/evaluating a team, whether it be WAR or other advanced statistical metrics. But in the end, there is a lot of psychology that comes into place over a 162 game season that simply cannot be quantified or measured.

 

The 2015 team is not as bad as the record would suggest. If you use the record as your baseline from which to project, yeah, there is virtually nothing they can do to become "contenders" in 2016 or 2017. It's just too big of a leap to turnover over the course of 1 or 2 offseasons. And yet, these kind of leaps in actual performance are made fairly frequently in reality.

 

I'm not saying I think they are "there" yet, but if they were to acquire another OF bat such as Cespedes or Upton, I really do think they might have something there. A lot of things could come together with Eaton/Abreu/Frazier/Cespedes or Upton/Cabrera/LaRoche in a bounce back year with a rotation of Sale/Quintana/Rodon/Danks/Johnson and the pen we have. Get that team on a bit of a roll with a bit of confidence and I guarantee you they could outperform any projections fairly easily.

 

I actually agree with a lot of what you have been posting recently. I think we have similar thoughts on our coaching staff, the general state of the organization, thoughts on how to improve, etc.

 

That being said, what the FO has done thus far this offseason is not only admirable, but pretty unbelievable, to be honest. I think what we are seeing is a combination of Kenny's acquisition strategy and Hahn's negotiating skills.

 

I will admit this deal will be a bit less exciting without another fairly significant acquisition, given the window we are looking at, but I will wait and see what else these two can pull of.

 

 

[ptatc]

The "defense" point isn't a "wouldn't want him", argument, it's just "is he going to be as good as the language people are using would suggest". Some of that is also me wondering whether I understand the defensive stats enough, because Bryant being right next to Frazier seems to make no sense to me if Bryant is a guy who should be moved away from 3b and Frazier is "Well above average".

 

The "wouldn't want him" part comes from me continuing to think this team is no where near as good as they want to believe they are.

So, you have a problem with making the team better. Unless it's a World Series caliber improvement, don't improve the team. This deal did nothing to hold back future success. Frazier is here to hold a spot for Trey M. in two years. In the meantime the team is better.

 

OK

Edited December 16, 2015 by ptatc

[justBLAZE]

Dan Hayes ‏@CSNHayes

#WhiteSox were 30th of 30 in OPS at 2B (.564) and 3B (.612) in '15. Brett Lawrie (.706) and Todd Frazier (.807) now reside in those spots.

[Steve9347]

Frazier attributes second half drop-off last season to fatigue, playing for bad Reds team

https://twitter.com/scotgregor/status/677210667250663424

Interesting. I'd attribute it to regression to the mean.

[Saufley]

@courtney883 I have also heard from many credible sources that the #WhiteSox are still not done. A move in the outfield could be next.

If I am Upton or Cespedes do I now think that the Chicago White Sox might not be too bad a team to go play for? Of course $$$ still matters.

[Frank_Thomas]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Sox helped LAD get Fernandez as part of a three team deal with Puig coming back to us.

[LDF]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Sox helped LAD get Fernandez as part of a three team deal with Puig coming back to us.

 

with what the marlins may ask, i would want Jose De Leon from the dodgers.

[greg775]

If they get Ethier and Fraizer for Montas/Micah/Trayce, that's a heck of a deal

Exactly. But Sox didn't get Ethier as well. Sox overpaid IMO. It's all up to Frazier to excel and shut up the people like me who said they overpaid.

 

Frazier for those 3 guys seems like a trade proposal we'd make on here and everyone would say the Reds wouldn't do that

I don't know about that. You could look at it the other way. Trayce, Micah and Montas all project to be certain big-league players. Kind of a steep price to pay.

 

He's down on the deal because he's a typical Sox fan, like many on here. I don't know why this is, but we love to s*** on almost everything the front office does.

We're not down on it. I'm thinking the infield will be awesome (on paper) if we can re-sign Lexi. Some people like me just think we overpaid again.

 

He's an all star. We have someone to root for in home run derby.

 

Meanwhile, the team and org. got worse.

 

The Sox had stabilized 3B. The weaknesses were OF defense and a mediocre bullpen.

So what did they do? Traded a OF who plays impeccable D and hit nearly .900 OPS. Brilliant!

They traded a pitcher who could have been an actual stopper, of which there is exactly one.

They cry about lack of hitting, so they traded an IF who can hit!!!!

 

Oh, and they crowded out yet another young IF. 2B wasn't an issue. We had great D there from a YOUNG player (which, I know, is a negative on the Sox).

This org's disdain for young players is beyond belief.

The irony of course is that at least 2 of those guys, if not all 3, will make the 92 win Dodgers 25 man. But they weren't good enough for the 25 man of Robbie and Cooper's 76 win Sox.

Good post except for the fact our infield was looking shaky with Lawrie, Saladino, Sanchez, Abreu the likely infield. Now it's much better with one swoop of Frazier. You have to admit the infield figures to be much more productive with this one trade.

 

How do people not like this deal. We kept fulmer and anderson. Micah wouldnt have started or played for us even if we didnt get lawrie. Trayce is a fourth outfielder and montas may be decent. We upgraded a lot at third.

 

The people mad arr probaly the same people mad about us trading seimen last year. Even though shark was bad i would take a comp pick any day for what we sent to oakland.

We're concerned (not mad) because it appears the Sox overpaid as they did in the Shark deal.

[RockRaines]

Shocker, Greg thinks trading fringe big league players is overpaying.

[RockRaines]

I am pretty certain we are going to add another OF bat.

[Lemon_44]

If the Sox prospects are so good and too much to give up, why did the Reds choose the Dodger's prospects to complete the deal? Truth is, there was a very good chance that none of the 3 guys the Sox gave up would even have had a minimal impact on the team this year.

[GGajewski18]

I am pretty certain we are going to add another OF bat.

 

Same. I think Upton, Gordon, Cespedes make most sense for this team in that order.

[ptatc]

Exactly. But Sox didn't get Ethier as well. Sox overpaid IMO. It's all up to Frazier to excel and shut up the people like me who said they overpaid.

 

 

I don't know about that. You could look at it the other way. Trayce, Micah and Montas all project to be certain big-league players. Kind of a steep price to pay.

 

 

We're not down on it. I'm thinking the infield will be awesome (on paper) if we can re-sign Lexi. Some people like me just think we overpaid again.

 

 

Good post except for the fact our infield was looking shaky with Lawrie, Saladino, Sanchez, Abreu the likely infield. Now it's much better with one swoop of Frazier. You have to admit the infield figures to be much more productive with this one trade.

 

 

We're concerned (not mad) because it appears the Sox overpaid as they did in the Shark deal.

The only prospects of any consequence in either deal were Bassitt and Montas. Both of those are/worth the risks as at the time they were not in the top 2 pitching prospects in the system.

[greg775]

For an all star third baseman, this was not overpay. Montas, a bullpen guy with promise. Trayce, almost assuredly a 4th outfielder. Micah, a second baseman who can't field and his bat is questionable. This is overpay(!)??

We'll see. I happen to think all three players we gave up are certain big leaguers. It's OK. Sox needed to get Frazier. Without him the infield completely would have blown (on paper). Now it has a chance to be contender worthy.

We'll see what happens. But unless you drink Koolaid all the time, it's ok to be "concerned" of an overpay. Frazier is an NL guy. How can a Sox fan not be a tad concerned he's another Dunn/LaRoche? Trayce is a STAR defensive player. He's AMAZING with the glove. Micah still could be special. He could be. Montas could be special. He could be.

 

Don't tell us this is a slam dunk great trade yet. I happen to believe the Sox totally overpaid for Shark and overpaid in this deal. However, I will take the deal because it did not appear Micah or Trayce would have started for this team this upcoming season anyway and the team ON PAPER is currently better than last year's following this deal.

 

Sorry some of us don't drink the Koolaid after Dunn/LaRoche. I am hopeful though and I was major in favor of acquiring Frazier.