Sox Acquire All-Star 3B Todd Frazier from Reds in 3 team deal

[Lillian]

Does anyone disagree that the remaining highest priority is an impact bat, with good defense, in the outfield?

If so, then the question is simply this; Does the front office really intend to go for it this year, or not.

If the answer to that question is also yes, then I think that there is a very good chance that they sign someone like Upton.

 

Hahn had said that was one of his priorities. If it is the only one remaining, they are in good shape to accomplish it, as they

have not taken on any burdensome contracts, so far in this off season. Lawrie and Frazier will both be free agents in two years, and neither has a very expensive current contract. They should be able to spend the money on that impact outfield bat.

[Chisoxfn]

The "defense" point isn't a "wouldn't want him", argument, it's just "is he going to be as good as the language people are using would suggest". Some of that is also me wondering whether I understand the defensive stats enough, because Bryant being right next to Frazier seems to make no sense to me if Bryant is a guy who should be moved away from 3b and Frazier is "Well above average".

 

The "wouldn't want him" part comes from me continuing to think this team is no where near as good as they want to believe they are.

Bryan ranked very positively defensively. So again, Frazier being in his group is not a bad thing at all. No one is talking about moving Bryant to the outfield anymore and either way that was more a move of maximizing talents with Baez in the equation, etc. Alex Rodriguez was an excellent defensive shortstop, should we point to the fact that he was moved (wrongly in this case) to 3B because of Jeter an indication he was a crappy shortstop? No.

 

http://statliners.com/2015/08/14/kris-brya...e-chicago-cubs/

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0817-story.html

 

 

[Panerista]

The Dodgers had a 300M payroll. If a team wants to spend wildly they are free to do so. All he said was that if the owners wanted to go for a high cost, winning team, they could do it.

 

You're looking way too far into this lol.. If you're going to field a winning team, you gotta spend the money on good players.

That's certainly the model the White Sox are going for. The other is rebuild, which I understand may or may not work. With an owner at Reinsdorf's age, you can understand why he wouldn't want to do this.

[lasttriptotulsa]

I don't think he's the majority owner, but he is correct about being able to do what he wants.

 

As the chairman yes he can do what he wants but how long do you think he will remain the chairman if he runs the team into the red?

[Chisoxfn]

I dunno...baseball is a strange game.

 

I enjoy the different methods of projecting/evaluating a team, whether it be WAR or other advanced statistical metrics. But in the end, there is a lot of psychology that comes into place over a 162 game season that simply cannot be quantified or measured.

 

The 2015 team is not as bad as the record would suggest. If you use the record as your baseline from which to project, yeah, there is virtually nothing they can do to become "contenders" in 2016 or 2017. It's just too big of a leap to turnover over the course of 1 or 2 offseasons. And yet, these kind of leaps in actual performance are made fairly frequently in reality.

 

I'm not saying I think they are "there" yet, but if they were to acquire another OF bat such as Cespedes or Upton, I really do think they might have something there. A lot of things could come together with Eaton/Abreu/Frazier/Cespedes or Upton/Cabrera/LaRoche in a bounce back year with a rotation of Sale/Quintana/Rodon/Danks/Johnson and the pen we have. Get that team on a bit of a roll with a bit of confidence and I guarantee you they could outperform any projections fairly easily.

 

I actually agree with a lot of what you have been posting recently. I think we have similar thoughts on our coaching staff, the general state of the organization, thoughts on how to improve, etc.

 

That being said, what the FO has done thus far this offseason is not only admirable, but pretty unbelievable, to be honest. I think what we are seeing is a combination of Kenny's acquisition strategy and Hahn's negotiating skills.

 

I will admit this deal will be a bit less exciting without another fairly significant acquisition, given the window we are looking at, but I will wait and see what else these two can pull of.

Good post.

 

[Dick Allen]

As the chairman yes he can do what he wants but how long do you think he will remain the chairman if he runs the team into the red?

Probably until he dies. But he wouldn't run the team into the red every year. Assuming they haven't paid out any of the partners, they should have quite the war chest sitting somewhere. But the problem with overspending is it leads to more overspending, and then you get into big trouble.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Dick Allen

[Panerista]

I've never really seen anything official on what percent he owns but it isn't very high. I remember reading an article awhile back in which other partners claimed he owned ~15% but he claims it is higher.

If he isn't the majority owner, how can he sell the team? He has made it clear he thinks his family should sell the team.

[Chisoxfn]

Adam Eaton ‏@AdamSpankyEaton 3h3 hours ago

Hmm @FlavaFraz21 ... I've heard great things... #WelcomeToTheSouthSide

 

Todd FrazierVerified account

‏@FlavaFraz21

@AdamSpankyEaton hahaha can't wait big dog. It's time

 

 

 

Avila is also supposed to be a good clubhouse guy, and Lawrie has an edge that can go either way. I think there is going to be a different attitude on this team if they come out strong.

Agree on some edge. That said, Robertson and LaRoche were supposed to be rock solid clubhouse guys as well. I want wins baby, wins.

[shysocks]

Sure, but we don't know what the White Sox internal cap is, right? The idea that the White Sox can't afford a player is silly. We don't know what Reinsdorf is or isn't willing to spend if Hahn wants to spend it. With a salary cap, I get being worried about "well we already have this and this guy signed, so we can't afford another", but in baseball, Jerry's internal cap could be $110 million or $130 million. We don't know. Regardless, no one here has reason to suggest that the White Sox can't afford a guy if they want him.

I agree with most of this, but this conveys a different message than the word infinite in super-big letters. I'll leave it at that.

[Dick Allen]

If he isn't the majority owner, how can he sell the team? He has made it clear he thinks his family should sell the team.

He is the Chairman. He put the group together. He has all the power, and his executor gets it when he is gone.

[Chisoxfn]

I'm sad to see Trayce go. Having said that this is a good move. Sox need to sign a 3WAR OFer, If they do that they're sitting at about 36WAR as projected from steamer. That puts us in the thick of it for the wild card and the central, with a fair amount of upside in projections regarding Sale, Quintana and Eaton, with some additional upside in Lawrie, Johnson, Danks & Saladino.

What were our projections entering 2014 & 2015 (out of pure curiosity) vs. reality.

[Chisoxfn]

Actually, he's just chairman.

 

I don't believe that he's the majority owner.

I don't know that their is any true majority owner in the sense that you have one owner who truly has control (and can push any decision he wants). I think he is the majority stakeholder though.

[Saufley]

"Everybody?" There's a good chance Trayce and Micah will be playing major roles on big league teams this season.

I wanted Frazier. I got Frazier. But I don't know why I'm the bad guy for merely suggesting the Sox overpaid. Would you do the Shark trade all over again? I wouldn't.

 

I'm not anti Sox or anti Frazier. I WANTED Frazier. I could be wrong. Maybe it took all 3 of those specific names to get Frazier. Why say without a doubt, unequivocally, this is the greatest thing to ever take place? I'm thrilled we got Frazier and the Lawrie/Frazier duo figure to spice up the offensive potential of the infield so much. Add Lexi and I'd buy season tickets if I lived in Chicago. It'd be worth the risk that the team is a contender (with bounceback years from Melky, LaRoche, the new catcher duo crucial to playoffs).

 

I don't understand the love fest for Micah. Not even sure he would have played any role on the White Sox this season.

 

[knightni]

I don't know that their is any true majority owner in the sense that you have one owner who truly has control (and can push any decision he wants). I think he is the majority stakeholder though.

Jerry Jones

Mark Cuban

[Bigsoxhurt35]

LMAO at Greg. We didn't overpay especially since we don't have a great farm system to begin with. Worst thing we've done is trade farm system depth. Then you wana bring Alexei back? No. He's done. He's old. Time to move on. Not a negative thing I can say about this deal. Micah can't stay healthy and has issues defensively. Montas, while I liked him and excited about because he was a hidden gem in the Peavy deal, was expendable. We've upgraded offensively and defensively in the infield without moving Anderson, Fulmer, Rodon or Q. I'm tickled to death. I had a dream last night we signed Cespedes (I like him and keep the draft pick). Hope it happens although I've stated all along give me one of the OFers. We've upgraded the catching position offensively with a platoon. We have 3 top 50 picks in the draft as long as we don't give up one for one of these OFers. I'm ok with moving Trayce because Shuck quietly had a fine season for us. I bet half the fan base didn't know who he was before last July. Shuck will be the 4th OFer. Lineup has added some much needed pop from the infield. Now hearing Hahn saying "not satisfied" and "we shall see on spending on Upton or Cespedes." I'd be shocked if we didn't land one or at least make a hard run.

[Chisoxfn]

Probably until he dies. But he wouldn't run the team into the red every year. Assuming they haven't paid out any of the partners, they should have quite the war chest sitting somewhere. But the problem with overspending is it leads to more overspending, and then you get into big trouble.

I agree. You have to pick and choose your battles and be prepared to deal with the consequences. Having our expensive guys coming off the books (and most of them being largely unproductive) is a nice win in the near future. Additionally, no one we added this off-season to date really impacts payroll much (I'd like to do something with Frazier to be honest...although I'd wait half a season to do it...figure out for sure that he's the right fit). Than the asset of having Q / Sale, etc. It provides you the luxury to overspend a bit on FA, elsewhere.

 

I'll miss Montas the most because I think its relatively slam dunk (in terms of prospects...which means still obvious risk) he at a minimum, becomes a high impact, cost controlled reliever.

[Chisoxfn]

By the way, for those clamoring for Ethier (who I've long been an advocate of), if we did this same package and got Ethier, I'd be telling you all we got hosed and robbed blindly (due to his payroll constraints).

[knightni]

LMAO at Greg. We didn't overpay especially since we don't have a great farm system to begin with. Worst thing we've done is trade farm system depth. Then you wana bring Alexei back? No. He's done. He's old. Time to move on. Not a negative thing I can say about this deal. Micah can't stay healthy and has issues defensively. Montas, while I liked him and excited about because he was a hidden gem in the Peavy deal, was expendable. We've upgraded offensively and defensively in the infield without moving Anderson, Fulmer, Rodon or Q. I'm tickled to death. I had a dream last night we signed Cespedes (I like him and keep the draft pick). Hope it happens although I've stated all along give me one of the OFers. We've upgraded the catching position offensively with a platoon. We have 3 top 50 picks in the draft as long as we don't give up one for one of these OFers. I'm ok with moving Trayce because Shuck quietly had a fine season for us. I bet half the fan base didn't know who he was before last July. Shuck will be the 4th OFer. Lineup has added some much needed pop from the infield. Now hearing Hahn saying "not satisfied" and "we shall see on spending on Upton or Cespedes." I'd be shocked if we didn't land one or at least make a hard run.

If they've traded to fill 2B and 3B, that means that Saladino, Sanchez, and Anderson will get an open shot at the SS job in Spring.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

It would be amazing if the Sox got Upton/Cespedes, dumped LaRoche, moved Melky to DH and signed a guy like Gerardo Parra to play left field. That would be awesome.

 

I don't think we see a Cespedes or Upton move. More like a LH OF who isn't terrible defensively along the lines of Parra, Inciarte, Corey Dickerson. The team would be terribly right handed with Cespedes or Upton. Actuually Cespedes hits righties pretty good. Maybe don't need a lefty if we get him and his OF D is considered good, though I'm not convinced of it. I'd like the OF to be a core piece but Sox running low on bullets unless they go for Parra who is a free agent.

[Dick Allen]

It doesn't matter if JR owns 98%, 55% or 1% of the team, whatever he wants to do, he can do. That is how it is set up. He has all the power. The others get a suite, are able to call themselves owners, and get paid when the team sells, or have to cut a check when they get a cash call which from what I heard hasn't happened since the late 80s.

[Buehrle>Wood]

By the way, for those clamoring for Ethier (who I've long been an advocate of), if we did this same package and got Ethier, I'd be telling you all we got hosed and robbed blindly (due to his payroll constraints).

The initial thoughts were the sox got both, not one of frazier or ethier.

[CanOfCorn]

It's funny we are talking about rebuilding/building from within...I was just thinking about the Cubs. The way the White Sox are currently building their team is similar to the Cubs.

 

Cubs: develop bats in the minors, sign free agent pitchers.

 

White Sox: draft and develop starters, sign or trade for bats.

 

Now, you can argue the draft process is different, and it is. Sox tend to like college pitchers and "toolsy" position players.

Cubs sucked for so long they got the cream of the crop and have traded for some excellent position players like Russell and Rizzo.

 

The White Sox starters, except for Danks, have all come through the system. Which we on this board tend to destroy. Granted, there haven't been really any position players, the only one I can think of would be Saladino and/or Sanchez currently on the team and that's not great, but Anderson is waiting in the wings.

Cubs starters are all signees or trades. Not sure who their 4 and 5 starters will be, but Hammel, Hendricks and Wood were all signed or traded for.

 

So really, what's the difference when it comes to how the team is built if the ultimate outcome is winning?

[Saufley]

That's the route I would take. One thing no one has brought up is the difficulty the Sox may have in signing Upton.

 

As a few of us have mentioned, signing a back loaded deal for a FA OF is probably the only way the Sox can bring a high priced player on. As we've seen recently, the bigger names are looking for opt-outs after year 3 or 4, and I'm sure at 26 years old Upton is looking for that. I would be. So not paying a ton in Year 1 is going to create a problem for the Sox.

 

Upton will be 29 in August

 

[JoshPR]

Alex gordon and doug fister would be nice

[Steve9347]

I think the Frazier deal will sell a ton of tickets just to the casual fan. If they add Upton, this lineup might be the best in the AL (on paper) & sell a lot more tickets, including from me.

Toronto says hi.