Sox Acquire All-Star 3B Todd Frazier from Reds in 3 team deal

[Panerista]

I think the Frazier deal will sell a ton of tickets just to the casual fan. If they add Upton, this lineup might be the best in the AL (on paper) & sell a lot more tickets, including from me.

I like your confidence, but I really think it begins and ends with wins

[bear_brian]

I don't think we see a Cespedes or Upton move. More like a LH OF who isn't terrible defensively along the lines of Parra, Inciarte, Corey Dickerson. The team would be terribly right handed with Cespedes or Upton. Actuually Cespedes hits righties pretty good. Maybe don't need a lefty if we get him and his OF D is considered good, though I'm not convinced of it. I'd like the OF to be a core piece but Sox running low on bullets unless they go for Parra who is a free agent.

 

I wanted to agree with your point about all of the RH hitters, until I remembered 2005. We had Konerko, Dye, Crede, Rowand, Iguchi, Uribe as every day RH players, and we also had Frank until he was hurt. That left us with AJ, Pods and Everett as our LH's. If we picked up Upton or Cespedes, we would have Eaton, Melky, LaRoche and one of the catchers as our LH's. Perhaps too much at times is made out of the platoon. I think it might be as important to get good OF defense.

 

[RockRaines]

If they've traded to fill 2B and 3B, that means that Saladino, Sanchez, and Anderson will get an open shot at the SS job in Spring.

I agree with this, but I also think they sign an impact OF bat. They will live with what they get at SS and it wont be Alexei.

[Chisoxfn]

The initial thoughts were the sox got both, not one of frazier or ethier.

I know and I was shaking my head because Ethier has negative value. Ethier the player is solid but when you factor in his contract, we would have been doing ourselves a disservice. If we had gottne Ethier, either we would have been getting a bunch of cash from the Dodgers too, or giving up less prospects. If we gave up this same package and got Ethier too (without cash) my opinion of the deal would have been lesser.

[OmarComing25]

What were our projections entering 2014 & 2015 (out of pure curiosity) vs. reality.

Projections had us at 78-79 wins in 2015, so pretty close, but they were wrong about the process. Not sure where to find the Steamer projections but BP had us at 78 wins with 703 RS and 728 RA. So we gave up 30 fewer runs but scored 80 fewer runs. I couldn't find much for 2014, but I did find one projection that had us at 65 wins.

[Chisoxfn]

100% Jas. Like I said, if they can star the year strong or with some momentum, I think it will make a difference. If they fall flat, all the attitude in the word doesn't mean anything.

Which is why, given the Sox trying to contend, this team has to still believe in Ventura. You don't make this type of investment two years in a row if the Sox didn't have full faith in Robin to lead the ship. You don't hire a cabi to drive your Maserati (at least I presume you don't).

[Chisoxfn]

I like your confidence, but I really think it begins and ends with wins

I agree. At this point, Sox fans have seen too many paper champs fold. It will be critical for this club to get off to at least a solid start. Critical.

[SoCalSox]

I think we are mostly in agreement here when I say: The White Sox did not make this move to stand pat & hope for the best. There will be either a new LF/RF within the coming weeks & I get the feeling it comes in the way of a FA.

 

If they can do that, I like their chances of competing.

[CanOfCorn]

Don't know if this has been posted earlier but if not...Todd Frazier says I don't need no stinkin' bats:

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/cutfour/article.jsp?content_id=32446002

[Chisoxfn]

I kind of think Sox aren't going to stop with an OF bat. They seem to be hinting at being even more aggressive than that this year. I'm fired up. I got a feeling the next domino will fall before Christmas. Either way, the real Christmas gift I want is new White Sox world series memories a year from now

[L. Ron Paultard]

This is incredible if true, as you get Frazier without giving up Anderson, Fulmer or Rodon. We all knew Micah Johnson had no future with the Sox, and Montas is sure more likely to be a reliever.

 

used to love Trayce Thompson's skill set/upside.

 

He will be an All-Star, one of the rare prospects wh is much better as a matured major-leaguer than his mediocre minor-league record projects. The batspeed, the hand-eye coordination, natural power + the cool yet aggressive temperament, athleticism, instincts = major league quality. Forget about stats, that's not how you evaluate talent in any sport.

 

If OTOH you believe he is a poor man's Brian Anderson, then it's good trade.

 

Same with Montas. If he's a raw Bartolo Colon, then it's a mistake. If just pen arm, no big deal.

 

Micah Johnson? Never got the hype.

Edited December 16, 2015 by L. Ron Paultard

[Steve9347]

Alex gordon and doug fister would be nice

Doug Fister is garbage now.

[ptatc]

This right here is what drives me nuts about these deals.

 

"We gave up so little in this deal. All we gave up is a backup, RH hitting catcher, a right handed hitting infielder who needs work, and a right handed reliever". Then what do the White Sox need to sign the next season? A right handed hitting catcher, they trade for an infielder, and they're relying on a guy you have to worry about a little bit in their rotation as their only righty.

 

"But oh, the White Sox had soured on those guys" you say, well boo-hoo. The White Sox can't work with people, only other organizations can do that?

 

It's like reading that thread all over again. All we gave up is a reliever, the 2b we gave up was someone we had soured on, and the other guy was a platoon hitter. Good thing we won't have any need of those next year, just like we didn't need a catcher or an infielder this year.

But its true. If they give up something worthwhile you can complain. The prospects weren't much considering the Sox need for a 3B. Monras may have been needed next year but so would a 3B so you traded a good 3B for a possibly good reliever. You cant deny that the Sox do not have a good 3B ready for next year. Howefer everyone says that relievers are wasy to find and replace.

[Panerista]

I used to be the one loved Trayce Thompson's skill set/upside. He will be an All-Star, one of the rare prospects wh is much better as a matured major-leaguer than his mediocre minor-league record projects. The batspeed, the hand-eye coordination, natural power + the cool yet aggressive temperament, athleticism, instincts = major league quality. Forget about stats, that's not how you evaluate talent in any sport.

 

If OTOH you believe he is a poor man's Brian Anderson, then it's good trade.

 

Same with Montas. If he's a raw Bartolo Colon, then it's a mistake. If just pen arm, no big deal.

 

Micah Johnson? Never got the hype.

The first paragraph is really bullish on Thompson. I really don't believe that's true.

 

Also, I'm almost certain the bold is wrong.

[flavum]

Frazier Audio

 

https://twitter.com/MLBNetworkRadio/status/...241763959042049

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

I would cry tears of joy if Hahn ended the offseason by getting Cespedes and Gerardo Parra.

[thxfrthmmrs]

I am cautiously optimistic about this deal. On the plus side, Micah and Montas were the two guys most people were fine with moving, but losing Trayce hurts (I wondered if Dodgers had any interest in Avi).

 

We added a potential middle of the lineup bat, but we still couldn't get on base to save our lives. Avi needs to go next, and hopefully we can nab an OF who could play defense and get on base (I know, easier said than done).

[ptatc]

He's the majority owner. He can do what he wants on that front.

 

And it's not like one outfielder is what is going to blow up this deal. The White Sox have the money. Don't worry about overspending.

 

1) There's no cap

2) The 2017 team sheds a lot of weight

 

I don't want to go for it every year. I'm a rebuilder guy, but if you're going to go for, go for it.

JR is not the majority owner. He is the elected chairman of the board.

 

 

[venom4789]

So does trace even get playing time with all the outfielders on the dodgers. Still think this is a great trade for the white sox.

[caulfield12]

 

 

Neutral feeling right now until we know who is starting in RF and SS and DH.

 

If it's still Saladino, LaRoche and Avi, it's a fail because that team isn't enough.

 

 

Now Hahn is announcing to the world he has to have either Cespedes, Puig, CarGo/Blackmon, Ethier, Gordon, Upton, etc.

 

That's a dangerous position to be in with free agents or opposing GM's.

 

 

We ended up minimizing the value of Sanchez/Micah and maximizing Thompson/Montas, basically.

 

If it's Parra platooning with Avi, it's better but still iffy depending on what Gerardo has left in the tank.

 

 

Since the White Sox hate longer term deals, Cespedes, Puig, CarGo, Gordon and Ethier (with cash back) make more sense than Upton (financially) but each one is fraught with risk. With that said, they absolutely have to get another headliner.

 

 

 

 

 

[Panerista]

JR is not the majority owner. He is the elected chairman of the board.

This is the least important part of the previous argument.

 

Whatever Reinsdorf says, goes. He is, for all intents and purposes, the owner of the Chicago White Sox. Whatever he wants to do, he can do.

[caulfield12]

I would cry tears of joy if Hahn ended the offseason by getting Cespedes and Gerardo Parra.

 

Two guys aren't feasible. But it has to be one more.

[shysocks]

So does trace even get playing time with all the outfielders on the dodgers. Still think this is a great trade for the white sox.

I saw some speculation on twitter earlier that they're still trying to get Jose Fernandez, and if they have to move outfielders for that effort, this trade was a part of it.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Two guys aren't feasible. But it has to be one more.

How is it not feasible?

 

Yoenis will cost a pretty penny, but I'd have to imagine that Parra could be had for cheap.

[Chisoxfn]

But its true. If they give up something worthwhile you can complain. The prospects weren't much considering the Sox need for a 3B. Monras may have been needed next year but so would a 3B so you traded a good 3B for a possibly good reliever. You cant deny that the Sox do not have a good 3B ready for next year. Howefer everyone says that relievers are wasy to find and replace.

It is also true that sometimes a prospect is more valuable to team B than team A. For example, if I had Mike Trout two years into the league, and than 3 top prospect CFer's, as I value those prospects, I need to understand that my best use of those resources is trade (vs. internal purposes). Similarly, if I have a ton of middle infield prospects, I can't play them all. I just can't do it. So I either convert some of them for other talent or I let half of them go to waste (and maybe they all fail, who the hell knows). You have to pick and choose what you are going to use.

 

I still love the Shark trade because of the premise that we really never gave up any game changer for a guy who has been a game changer in his career (he was coming off an absurdly strong season). Sure he wasn't good with the Sox but I would make that move 100 times out of 100. The Frazier deal differs slightly in that we gave up one guy who had a real opportunity (Montas) and is considered pretty good. Far better than anything given up for Shark, but we also are getting a guy who is under control for an extra year and is well above average at his position.