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Packing LaRoche for salary relief?


TheFutureIsNear

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QUOTE (Real @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 04:59 AM)
I'm pretty sure LaRoche's contract for next year isn't going to hamper them signing a big FA, as they could backload the deal

 

The issue with signing a big FA is bidding against other teams like NYY, BOS, DET, etc.

Helps when teams like NYY or BOS aren't in the bidding though.

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QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 05:00 PM)
A level as in some 20 year old kid not in a teams top 30 prospects.

 

And I think you're being a bit overdramatic about Avi personally. There have been older players given chance after chance based on their tools. Avi has a hit tool and raw power that will be given a chance. If you banish every 24 year for not succeeding like you seem to want to do you'd miss out on a lot of good players.

 

Yes and no. It's a case by case basis, though 24-25 is probably the outer range of that "prospect" category and I would guess that most who haven't shown any sign of being a major league player by then probably won't ever above average every day players, though I'm sure we can both list some counterexamples (Todd Frazier and Alex Gordon for example).

 

But, being a case by case basis you have to look at the particular player. And, Avi is a kind of guy for whom all the signs point much more in the direction of being hopeless, and therefore lacking value to potential trade suitors. First, Avi is so bad at so many things, and not particularly good at anything, and has shown no signs of improvement. Below average power, below average plate discipline/OBP, awful fielder, below average base runner. He's been a professional (minors included) for a good 8 years now, so teams have to believe that if he was going to at all he should have corrected at least some of those flaws by now.

 

Second, the level of talent Avi was viewed at even before his failings in the bigs (and never being terribly good in minors either FWIW) has to be considered. Avi was at best a fringe top 100 prospect. A guy like Alex Gordon was viewed as a general prospect and at 1 time ranked the #1 or 2 prospect in baseball by every scouting service. A guy like Gordon will get many more chances after 24-25 because his talent was perceived to be much higher than a guy like Avi to begin with.

 

Third, the fact that he's been in pro ball for 8 years and nothing has been corrected with all the coaching and instruction he's received there is particularly telling. Guys like Gordon and Frazier were, by contrast, drafted out of college dominated the minors and then scuffled in the majors. So, even though they were older guys like Avi, the time for development under professional coaching they had was much less.

 

 

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QUOTE (Real @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 05:59 AM)
I'm pretty sure LaRoche's contract for next year isn't going to hamper them signing a big FA, as they could backload the deal

 

The issue with signing a big FA is bidding against other teams like NYY, BOS, DET, etc.

 

I mean backloading the contract is the best option if we want to sign a big FA, but its not preferable to many players for obvious reasons. So, if the big boys you mentioned, like NYY, BOS, DET are bidding $X and the Sox want the player to sign a backloaded deal, They would probably have to bid $X+10.

 

Also, of course any extra salary hampers them from signing a big FA even if they could backload the deal. Lets say Sox front office has the free agents ranked 1. Upton; 2. Gordon; 3. Cespedes. Jerry wants payroll in $120-130 million range. They will go to $130 mil for Upton; $125 for Gordon; $ 123 for Cespedes. Without Laroche's contract, they might be willing to bid the amount its gonna take to sign any of the 3. With Laroche's contract its possible they might say get outbid for Upton even if their willing to raise their payroll to $130 mil (bc Upton signs a deal that lets say would raise the payroll to 133) and then because of Laroche won't be able to sign Gordon or Cespedes and keep payroll under 125 or 123 mil, whereas without Laroche they would be able to sign them without going over 125 or 123 mil

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QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 02:35 PM)
Guys, LaRoche is not that big of a handicap. One year at $13M. If he bounces back, awesome, but there's absolutely no reason to give away prospects with LaRoche or take a massive deal.

 

i will play the devil's advocate here.

 

if the sox need to get that final piece, and the salary is at its limits, the sox, imo will not make that move, b/c a dead weight contract is on the books, that contract belongs to laroche. 13 mil is alot when the owners wants to justify ever penny .

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QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:38 PM)
Would it make sense to package LaRoche with expendable young guys like Avi, Beck, Webb/Putnam? .

How exactly are they expendable? Have you seen the bullpen? Have you seen how thin this starting rotation is?

Hahn just traded 2 young pitching prospects for 2 more bullpen guys with no control that he hopes "Coop can fix" although Coop hasn't fixed a thing in years.

Need all the arms they can get and hope a couple can do something.

 

And I agree with the above. if 1 year of $13 million is a big handicap, what business are they doing signing long term FAs and trading for hero-rents? And at that, he does do one thing well - plays defense (and I know, I know, who needs defense).

Edited by GreenSox
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QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 08:54 AM)
How exactly are they expendable? Have you seen the bullpen? Have you seen how thin this starting rotation is?

Hahn just traded 2 young pitching prospects for 2 more bullpen guys with no control that he hopes "Coop can fix" although Coop hasn't fixed a thing in years.

Need all the arms they can get and hope a couple can do something.

Avi in RF

Thompson in CF

May in LF

Saladino at 3B

Rondon as SS

Sanchez at 2B

6 year minor league free agent at 1B

Nieto at C

who cares as long as he is making minimum at DH

 

 

Do you get hard looking at that line up?

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QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 04:25 PM)
i will play the devil's advocate here.

 

if the sox need to get that final piece, and the salary is at its limits, the sox, imo will not make that move, b/c a dead weight contract is on the books, that contract belongs to laroche. 13 mil is alot when the owners wants to justify ever penny .

 

They probably need to dump LaRoche and one of Melky/Robertson because an Upton or Cespedes will cost over $20 mil AAV if they want to go that route.

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They don't need to dump Robertson, just back load any free agent deal so the Danks/Laroche money that is coming off the books next year gets reallocated. It's been posted before and remains valid imo. If we are going to go for the wildcard, we shouldn't be dumping an established closer. Internal option-wise, Nate Jones scares me as a 9th inning guy, but I'll take him in the 7th/8th as a bridge to #30.

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QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 09:29 AM)
They don't need to dump Robertson, just back load any free agent deal so the Danks/Laroche money that is coming off the books next year gets reallocated. It's been posted before and remains valid imo. If we are going to go for the wildcard, we shouldn't be dumping an established closer. Internal option-wise, Nate Jones scares me as a 9th inning guy, but I'll take him in the 7th/8th as a bridge to #30.

Why is the wildcard the goal here? The division is wide open and for the taking, especially if we get Upton or Cespedes.

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QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 09:41 AM)
Why is the wildcard the goal here? The division is wide open and for the taking, especially if we get Upton or Cespedes.

I meant wildcard as a minimum, ie, getting into the playoffs. I don't know that the division is there for the taking for this team as currently constructed, I still think we need more starting pitching and an impact bat to really be a threat. But I do think we can make a legit wildcard run as constructed.

 

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