Are you upset in the direction the Sox are headed?

[Southwest Sider]

Driving around a bit earlier, listening to 1000 and 670 discuss the trade. The guys on 670 couldn't wrap their minds around this direction. The "going for it" direction. Trading prospects for MLB players. Their argument is that it probably only adds 2-5 wins to a team that only won 76 games. That is possibly true. Even if they add a big-name outfielder, will they have added enough wins? Maybe not! Then what was this exercise good for? Why did the Sox go for it instead of cashing in on assets?

 

It feels like the Sox, in the position they are in, have to go for it. Hahn has repeatedly said that they want to win a championship WITH Sale and Abreu, instead of selling them off. It only makes sense to go for it, while they are here, while they are good. Build the best team you can without completely dismantling the farm.

 

But if our worst fear comes true, that the Sox yet again have another season of mediocrity, will there still be that feeling of being pigeonholed into attempting to contend? If the Sox add an OF, their roster will look pretty set for at least the next 2 years, short stop and catcher aside. After this season, they could move Melky to DH and replace him with Avi(if he gets good) or another OF. They could also attempt to bolster short stop should Saladino prove not good enough, as well as be on the prowl for another upgrade at catcher.

 

Or they could finally decide to go in the other direction. Why? Because it won't be too late. In the shoes of Rick Hahn, it would be incredibly difficult to ignore the following assets and what they might be able to retrieve you via trade:

 

Melky (1 year left)

Robertson (2 years left)

Duke (1 year left)

Frazier (1 year left)

Lawrie (1 year left)

 

Admittedly, since you cannot expect all 5 of those players to be at their maximum possible value by the end of next season, this group probably wouldn't bring in more then 1 or 2 blue chip prospects, along with lots of lottery tickets and decent to good prospects. That would be a pretty nice farm reload, all while still leaving the front office the option of either keeping Sale/Quintana/Abreu/Eaton, or selling them off and really going for a rebuild. You could try to trade any number of them and acquire some big-time prospects and MLB ready players. You could also trade none of them and still try to build around them, given their friendly contracts. But trading at least Sale and Quintana might not be a terrible idea. If the Sox are savvy enough, and with enough luck, you could have a bunch of new young players taking their lumps in 2017 with a rotation headlined by Rodon, Fulmer and Adams, and by the time the '17 and especially the '18 off season rolls around, potentially be in a good enough spot to where you could add a few key free agents to a budding club.

 

The point of this post is to illustrate that the Sox, while committed to winning now, are not so committed to winning now that the future is completely jeopardized. I hope I have shown that with the possibilities that the future could hold for the franchise.

Edited December 17, 2015 by South Sider

[Dick Allen]

People want the team to suffer and build through the draft. There were exactly 2 Theo Epstein draft picks on the 2015 Cubs.

 

If Houston knew what they were doing with #1 overall picks, all that tanking would have been for Mark Appel and Kyle Schwarber. All the other guys he could have acquired trying to be somewhat competitive.

 

Being bad isn't necessary to be good in baseball.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

Only if they don't improve RF, DH, SS and possibly add a veteran starter and/or reliever...in other words, no significant additions from here until ST.

 

Whether it's the 2004-2005 or pre-2008 additions (Danks/Ramirez/Quentin/Floyd/Linebrink/Dotel), the White Sox and now the Cubs have shown that it's always going to be an equal combination of smart trades and youth/development/talent evaluation that makes for a winning organization.

 

Obviously being in a position to select Kris Bryant and having the Astros pass on him for Mark Appel helped. Their offensive future wouldn't look nearly so bright without both him and Schwarber, as Baez and Soler have been exposed to some extent. The Arrieta pick up was obviously huge as well.

 

 

[GGajewski18]

Only if they don't improve RF, DH, SS and possibly add a veteran starter and/or reliever...in other words, no significant additions from here until ST.

 

Whether it's the 2004-2005 or pre-2008 additions (Danks/Ramirez/Quentin/Floyd/Linebrink/Dotel), the White Sox and now the Cubs have shown that it's always going to be an equal combination of smart trades and youth/development/talent evaluation that makes for a winning organization.

 

Obviously being in a position to select Kris Bryant and having the Astros pass on him for Mark Appel helped. Their offensive future wouldn't look nearly so bright without both him and Schwarber, as Baez and Soler have been exposed to some extent. The Arrieta pick up was obviously huge as well.

 

I agree to an extent. I could definitely live with Saladino at SS because we surrounded the infield with guys that can defend and hit.

 

I'm also fine with a platoon of Laroche/Avi at the DH spot ONLY if we get Upton.

 

So really, Sox sign Upton, I'm perfectly content with the offense.

 

In terms of starting pitching, I'd be willing to take some gambles on Brandon Beachy, Tim Lincecum, or Edwin Jackson

[caulfield12]

I agree to an extent. I could definitely live with Saladino at SS because we surrounded the infield with guys that can defend and hit.

 

I'm also fine with a platoon of Laroche/Avi at the DH spot ONLY if we get Upton.

 

So really, Sox sign Upton, I'm perfectly content with the offense.

 

In terms of starting pitching, I'd be willing to take some gambles on Brandon Beachy, Tim Lincecum, or Edwin Jackson

 

Medlen and Capuano are the only test cases so far for double TJ surgery...the Beachy situation as well, right?

 

Buehrle's been mentioned. Gallardo would probably be too expensive, and certainly wouldn't fit with an Upton/Cespedes/Gordon/Davis or even Ian Desmond signing.

Edited December 17, 2015 by caulfield12

[GGajewski18]

Medlen and Capuano are the only test cases so far for double TJ surgery...the Beachy situation, right?

 

Buehrle's been mentioned. Gallardo would probably be too expensive, and certainly wouldn't fit with an Upton/Cespedes/Gordon/Davis or even Ian Desmond signing.

 

I could see Buehrle as well.

 

In reference to the bolded, I think we would just be looking at depth guys that maybe had off years/injured that could be had for cheap.

[southsideirish71]

They are obviously going for it. Now they should sign Gordon/Upton/or Cespedes. Cant be in the middle. They already went this far.

[OmarComing25]

Only if they don't improve RF, DH, SS and possibly add a veteran starter and/or reliever...in other words, no significant additions from here until ST.

 

Whether it's the 2004-2005 or pre-2008 additions (Danks/Ramirez/Quentin/Floyd/Linebrink/Dotel), the White Sox and now the Cubs have shown that it's always going to be an equal combination of smart trades and youth/development/talent evaluation that makes for a winning organization.

 

Obviously being in a position to select Kris Bryant and having the Astros pass on him for Mark Appel helped. Their offensive future wouldn't look nearly so bright without both him and Schwarber, as Baez and Soler have been exposed to some extent. The Arrieta pick up was obviously huge as well.

We don't have to upgrade all our holes, every team has holes. Saladino could realistically be between 1-2 WAR at SS, we can live with that assuming RF is upgraded, it's a heck of a lot better than all the negative WAR players we had this year. I'm fine with DH if we can find a platoon partner to limit LaRoche against LHP.

[BaconOnAStick]

The MLB is a binary league. You're either in the hunt for the playoffs (and thus a shot at the title) or you're not. Counting wins provided to individual players (I can't belive this is a thing) to some imaginary playoff number doesn't really work. Sox are trying to be in the half of the league competing as opposed to the other half that is sucking either on purpose or because they are the Padres.

 

For how little I like the Frazier trade, at least it shows a commitment to constantly attempt dramatic improvements every offseason. I think its a lot easier to get excited about Todd Frazier and Brett Lawrie as positional upgrades than last year's additions of Melky and LaRoche to the offense. Of course Melky and LaRoche didn't cost the Sox a bunch of young players, just playing time that would be better used on young players.

 

If Samardzija wasn't so terrible last year the Sox probably buy at the deadline and get 80+ wins and we're all freaking out because the team is "making the finishing touches" or something. Sox still have talent, my take is they have less than they had 24 hours ago, but I can still see the coming season as just as likely to be winner as a loser. Couple breaks go the Sox way (a Lawrie breakout would be massive) and the pitchers stay healthy... maybe they make a run.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Alexeihyeess

[BaconOnAStick]

Buehrle makes a lot of sense as an inning eater, and there is zero doubt he'd draw fans to the park.

 

I would like to see Carroll get a shot in the rotation. Perhaps Scotty has run out of whatever mojo-luck he's been using to not get whacked around in the bigs, or maybe he's found a way to get major leaguers out. The guy has been undeniably effective in whatever role the Sox have put him in.

[Rowand44]

I agree with everyone that says we need to make another splash so we're not stuck in the middle. That said, while I'll be disappointed if we miss on one of the of'ers, I'm not going to be pissed off about the direction of the team cause I don't think we've given up anything we're going to regret in the future.

[caulfield12]

I agree with everyone that says we need to make another splash so we're not stuck in the middle. That said, while I'll be disappointed if we miss on one of the of'ers, I'm not going to be pissed off about the direction of the team cause I don't think we've given up anything we're going to regret in the future.

 

But we can't completely dismiss out of hand the opportunity cost of 1) not having Semien, Montas, Thompson, Johnson, etc., over the next six years at cheaper rates, 2) the fact that we're essentially wasting money on Robertson for another year if we're not legitimately competing, 3) the fact that if these moves don't pan out we're going to be left with a "starting over/rebuilding" decision yet again before 2018 because of the departures of Lawrie, Frazier, Cabrera all coming at the same time. It's almost guaranteed to happen if we don't field a playoff team for two more years because the revenues will continue to decrease and media attention decrease in the face of the Cubs' resurgence.

 

On the plus side, we still have Anderson, Fulmer and Adams.

 

It absolutely has to be attached to another big bat because you can be sure Detroit's going to continue to add, KC has their two year window remaining before a rebuild, Minnesota will have a full (healthy) year from Buxton and Sano and they competed for a wild card spot until the final week, CLE added Napoli and Rajai Davis and they're still not done with marketing one of their young starting pitchers for another piece...there's just too many variables with injuries and non-performance to believe they can be better than 3-4 teams in their own division the way the team is currently constituted.

 

And there's no luxury now for failure from Tim Anderson and Carson Fulmer.

 

Finally, not having a long-term solution at the catcher spot and hoping/praying each year isn't a very sustainable plan.

 

 

So JR has to swallow hard and allow for the first $100 million plus contract contract in White Sox history.

Without it, the team would predictably end up in a terrible position negotiating for media rights in 2018/19 with a major rebuild and no marketable players if Sale, Abreu and Rodon were to be jettisoned.

Edited December 17, 2015 by caulfield12

[Southwest Sider]

I just realized that I pretty much posted the same thing twice in 2 paragraphs.

 

That's what I get for starting a post and then finishing it a couple of hours later.

[Southwest Sider]

The OF that we might sign brings another interesting element to this.

 

Whether it is Upton or Cespedes, there is likely a chance that there is an opt-out after year 3. This could make said player more marketable to teams in trade proposals, further adding to our depth of players we could deal to reload.

 

Of course, there is also the angle that you add an Upton or Cespedes for them to be a part of the "core". But if they have good seasons, they will opt-out anyway, so you cannot bank on that.

 

[LDF]

Driving around a bit earlier, listening to 1000 and 670 discuss the trade. The guys on 670 couldn't wrap their minds around this direction. The "going for it" direction. Trading prospects for MLB players. Their argument is that it probably only adds 2-5 wins to a team that only won 76 games. That is possibly true. Even if they add a big-name outfielder, will they have added enough wins? Maybe not! Then what was this exercise good for? Why did the Sox go for it instead of cashing in on assets?

 

It feels like the Sox, in the position they are in, have to go for it. Hahn has repeatedly said that they want to win a championship WITH Sale and Abreu, instead of selling them off. It only makes sense to go for it, while they are here, while they are good. Build the best team you can without completely dismantling the farm.

 

But if our worst fear comes true, that the Sox yet again have another season of mediocrity, will there still be that feeling of being pigeonholed into attempting to contend? If the Sox add an OF, their roster will look pretty set for at least the next 2 years, short stop and catcher aside. After this season, they could move Melky to DH and replace him with Avi(if he gets good) or another OF. They could also attempt to bolster short stop should Saladino prove not good enough, as well as be on the prowl for another upgrade at catcher.

 

Or they could finally decide to go in the other direction. Why? Because it won't be too late. In the shoes of Rick Hahn, it would be incredibly difficult to ignore the following assets and what they might be able to retrieve you via trade:

 

Melky (1 year left)

Robertson (2 years left)

Duke (1 year left)

Frazier (1 year left)

Lawrie (1 year left)

 

Admittedly, since you cannot expect all 5 of those players to be at their maximum possible value by the end of next season, this group probably wouldn't bring in more then 1 or 2 blue chip prospects, along with lots of lottery tickets and decent to good prospects. That would be a pretty nice farm reload, all while still leaving the front office the option of either keeping Sale/Quintana/Abreu/Eaton, or selling them off and really going for a rebuild. You could try to trade any number of them and acquire some big-time prospects and MLB ready players. You could also trade none of them and still try to build around them, given their friendly contracts. But trading at least Sale and Quintana might not be a terrible idea. If the Sox are savvy enough, and with enough luck, you could have a bunch of new young players taking their lumps in 2017 with a rotation headlined by Rodon, Fulmer and Adams, and by the time the '17 and especially the '18 off season rolls around, potentially be in a good enough spot to where you could add a few key free agents to a budding club.

 

The point of this post is to illustrate that the Sox, while committed to winning now, are not so committed to winning now that the future is completely jeopardized. I hope I have shown that with the possibilities that the future could hold for the franchise.

 

and ref to the bold, here is how i look at it, if they do not add a big bat but go thru another rt, it would have been b/c of the owners refusing to commit to winning.... or try to win thru the cheapest rt possible. the sox will need to address what i have been saying, ss is the ss poistion, and can live with saladino or alexei. but a of'er and dh are 2 major needs and another not so major should be an extra sp.

 

now if these are address without loosing any sp, that rotation is fantastic, they will carry the team. the other thing will be up to the manager.

 

mr RV, the team is there, i just really hope you are up to the job to take this team to the next step.

[BlackSox13]

While I don't like losing Montas and Thompson, I'm at peace with it and am happy with the moves made so far. I'm really looking forward to seeing what the Sox come up with for an outfielder. Cespedes? Upton? A Gordon surprise? Trade? Stay tuned...

Edited December 17, 2015 by BlackSox13

[cabiness42]

Buehrle makes a lot of sense as an inning eater, and there is zero doubt he'd draw fans to the park.

 

I would like to see Carroll get a shot in the rotation. Perhaps Scotty has run out of whatever mojo-luck he's been using to not get whacked around in the bigs, or maybe he's found a way to get major leaguers out. The guy has been undeniably effective in whatever role the Sox have put him in.

 

I think the only way Buehrle comes here is if he doesn't get an offer from the Cards. Even if they offer him some sort of pittance like $5 million, I think he takes it because he wants to play for them so badly. If they never offer that, then maybe he comes here for $8-10 million.