Tim Baffoe Column

[Y2Jimmy0]

Baffoe: Rick Hahn’s Moves Show Control, Direction Of White Sox: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/12/18/baf...n-of-white-sox/

This is great stuff from Tim. It highlights that fact rebuilding is a dumb idea with the youngish core that the Sox already have. The AL is also wide open. It also tells KW to stop undermining his GM. Good stuff.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Y2JImmy0

[Kyyle23]

Baffoe is a funny Twitter follow

[LDF]

Baffoe: Rick Hahn’s Moves Show Control, Direction Of White Sox: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/12/18/baf...n-of-white-sox/

This is great stuff from Tim. It highlights that fact rebuilding is a dumb idea with the youngish core that the Sox already have. The AL is also wide open. It also tells KW to stop undermining his GM. Good stuff.

 

my dislike for kw is well known. but for this statement, ref the bold, how does he know if kw is undermining hahn or not, is it an assumption or has he heard something. ...

 

just wondering.

[Kyyle23]

my dislike for kw is well known. but for this statement, ref the bold, how does he know if kw is undermining hahn or not, is it an assumption or has he heard something. ...

 

just wondering.

 

He is talking about KW talking to the press and making dumb statements

[LDF]

He is talking about KW talking to the press and making dumb statements

 

many thanks for clarifying that.

 

edit.... after rereading it, i still don't get that .... i know he said about a parent wondering about the A and A+ blah. this is on me, i am really out of it. but again, my gratitude for explaining it to me.

 

peace

Edited December 19, 2015 by LDF

[southsider2k5]

He is talking about KW talking to the press and making dumb statements

 

Which is funny, because across town, we have the exact same executive structure, yet no one is telling Theo to stop talking, even when he is saying the exact same thing as Kenny... such as not having a plan for the winter.

 

The media in this town is embarrassing.

[Kyyle23]

Yea, theo doesn't make Hoyer look bad like KW has with Rick

[caulfield12]

He seems pretty certain the White Sox can just so easily bump payroll up to the $140-145 million mark because that's what it will require for the Big Three.

 

The problem for Hahn at this point is a quieter move like Parra, Austin Jackson, Fowler, Denorfia, Snider, etc., isn't going to move the meter enough...especially with Saladino at SS and EJ and Danks at the back end.

 

Minus a huge resurgence from LaRoche, Avi and Cabrera, the offense is still one player short.

 

Optimistically, let's say they put up a surprise contending season...like 2012...but most fans aren't going to buy in until they're 100% convinced at midseason the White Sox are really going for it. If we don't sign one of those three, it's going to be sort of a half measure. Especially if some of those big names end up on divisional rivals' rosters instead.

 

And the only real pieces they have to move of value in Robertson, Anderson and Fulmer can't be moved for the likes of an Ozuna, CarGo or Puig...or can they? Right now, if there's a hard limit at $119-122 million, he's stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Edited December 19, 2015 by caulfield12

[Bigsoxhurt35]

With Danks and LaRoche coming off the books next off-season, I think that gives Hahn and KW reason to get JR to spend now on a bat.

[caulfield12]

Yea, theo doesn't make Hoyer look bad like KW has with Rick

 

 

Wasn't it effective? Maybe that was KW's unique way of saying ____ or get off the pot.

 

Now Hahn has put the ball 100% back in JR and KW's hands in terms of okaying another big signing. There's little more he could have done without trading Robertson, Q, Fulmer or Anderson.

 

He's done his job. Now it's about payrolls, performance and the coaching staff doing its job in the spring to come out of the gates chomping at the bit.

[flavum]

The way front offices are structured these days, it's hard to lay blame or give praise (overly) to any one individual. It's a really good way to manage up to ownership too.

 

Every move is vetted with analytics and scrutinized by many people before a move is made. The days of two grey-haired GMs making a deal based on gut feelings and last year's pitcher's win total are over, which is fine.

 

I do know this about the Sox...they've tried to go "all-in", and failed to make the playoffs. They're in a constant "win now" mode, but I'll acknowledge 2014 they probably knew that was a losing season---every other year from 2009 on, they've failed to make the playoffs.

 

Good for them having some team-friendly contracts, but without getting to the playoffs over the Sale/Abreu contracts in the next few years, it would be a complete failure by the Sox front office, and I hope they would acknowledge that themselves.

[Kyyle23]

Wasn't it effective? Maybe that was KW's unique way of saying ____ or get off the pot.

 

Now Hahn has put the ball 100% back in JR and KW's hands in terms of okaying another big signing. There's little more he could have done without trading Robertson, Q, Fulmer or Anderson.

 

He's done his job. Now it's about payrolls, performance and the coaching staff doing its job in the spring to come out of the gates chomping at the bit.

 

No, it wasn't. Hahn called in to the score yesterday morning and spent a frustrated portion of that time saying that he is sick of talking about inter office dynamics and would rather be talking about Frazier. KW undermining Hahns authority to the media doesn't make Hahn move faster.

[The Ginger Kid]

I love me some FO speculation

[LDF]

He seems pretty certain the White Sox can just so easily bump payroll up to the $140-145 million mark because that's what it will require for the Big Three.

 

The problem for Hahn at this point is a quieter move like Parra, Austin Jackson, Fowler, Denorfia, Snider, etc., isn't going to move the meter enough...especially with Saladino at SS and EJ and Danks at the back end.

 

Minus a huge resurgence from LaRoche, Avi and Cabrera, the offense is still one player short.

 

Optimistically, let's say they put up a surprise contending season...like 2012...but most fans aren't going to buy in until they're 100% convinced at midseason the White Sox are really going for it. If we don't sign one of those three, it's going to be sort of a half measure. Especially if some of those big names end up on divisional rivals' rosters instead.

 

And the only real pieces they have to move of value in Robertson, Anderson and Fulmer can't be moved for the likes of an Ozuna, CarGo or Puig...or can they? Right now, if there's a hard limit at $119-122 million, he's stuck between a rock and a hard place.

 

excellent point on the bold, i was going to write something about that tomorrow. but hey, as it stand will the fans spend money to buy season tickets or weekend ticket pkg or what???

 

b/c you know, the highers ups in the sox org will think that they did enuf for fans to come out and buy tickets.

[Saufley]

He seems pretty certain the White Sox can just so easily bump payroll up to the $140-145 million mark because that's what it will require for the Big Three.

 

The problem for Hahn at this point is a quieter move like Parra, Austin Jackson, Fowler, Denorfia, Snider, etc., isn't going to move the meter enough...especially with Saladino at SS and EJ and Danks at the back end.

 

Minus a huge resurgence from LaRoche, Avi and Cabrera, the offense is still one player short.

 

Optimistically, let's say they put up a surprise contending season...like 2012...but most fans aren't going to buy in until they're 100% convinced at midseason the White Sox are really going for it. If we don't sign one of those three, it's going to be sort of a half measure. Especially if some of those big names end up on divisional rivals' rosters instead.

 

And the only real pieces they have to move of value in Robertson, Anderson and Fulmer can't be moved for the likes of an Ozuna, CarGo or Puig...or can they? Right now, if there's a hard limit at $119-122 million, he's stuck between a rock and a hard place.

 

Yes! That big power hitting outfielder is still missing. Better go all the way!

 

[Lillian]

So, what would the projected payroll look like in 2017, after Danks and La Roche are off the books, and assuming that they did sign an outfielder for approximately

$20 million a year? I understand that there are lots of calculations to be made, regarding arbitration and existing contractual raises.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Lillian

[Y2Jimmy0]

excellent point on the bold, i was going to write something about that tomorrow. but hey, as it stand will the fans spend money to buy season tickets or weekend ticket pkg or what???

 

b/c you know, the highers ups in the sox org will think that they did enuf for fans to come out and buy tickets.

 

 

If front office gets 1 of the 3 big outfielders, then the fans should show up honestly. This team should be in the AL Central race and maybe even the favorites if that happens. I won't be buying a ticket package but I'll sure as hell be at about 15 games

[GGajewski18]

If front office gets 1 of the 3 big outfielders, then the fans should show up honestly. This team should be in the AL Central race and maybe even the favorites if that happens. I won't be buying a ticket package but I'll sure as hell be at about 15 games

 

I literally got an email about buying a ticket package the other day. I told the guy that I'm holding off on buying one because I think the Sox are an OFer away from being contenders (I mentioned the big 3 OFs, preferably Upton).

 

He emailed me back saying not a problem at all as he hopes as well that they make a few more moves to improve the roster.

 

Here's to Upton!

[caulfield12]

No, it wasn't. Hahn called in to the score yesterday morning and spent a frustrated portion of that time saying that he is sick of talking about inter office dynamics and would rather be talking about Frazier. KW undermining Hahns authority to the media doesn't make Hahn move faster.

 

He was referring to who gets the blame or the credit when things go poorly, the scapegoat tendency of the media to assess or apportion blame when things go sour and fans are rightfully frustrated.

 

Obviously, with the Cubs, they told everyone they weren't competing and the expectation was playoffs in 2016 at the earliest.

 

With the White Sox, you've had two high profile complete bust seasons (2011 and 2014) when big things were predicted by everyone. KW would still be the GM and/or nobody would care about the Hahn/KW dynamic had they made it to the playoffs both those years...or maybe even just once, as that's more the average for JR-owned teams.

Edited December 19, 2015 by caulfield12

[Jerksticks]

I still think KW's comments about "no plan" were a smoke screen and some honesty. Why people took them as a condemnation of RH is beyond me. People just like controversy and picking at carcasses and stuff. Sometimes the media gets creepy like that.

[caulfield12]

It's certainly easy to look at Hahn's track record in trades and acquisitions and find enough fault.

 

That writer is acting like Hahn's brilliance is being stifled by KW...while clearly the best move of the past three years (besides the Peavy trade and Eaton) has been attributed mostly to KW and Paddy lobbying JR for the additional funds to sign Abreu.

 

The "moves looked good on paper" argument isn't going to continue to work again as a defense of his tenure...especially if they do end up signing that Big 3 guy and he's a bust compared to the other two. Otoh, if we don't add that player now, it's going to be even less likely to happen next year in terms of the FA class.

 

As much as Dunn/Danks spelled the end of KW, this theoretical big signing would pretty much define Hahn's eventual success or failure from a historical standpoint. (Of course, a lesser signing takes the pressure off and the story's all about the White Sox "small market" mentality like we earn the same $20-30 million from local media as teams like Twins, Indians and Royals.)

Edited December 19, 2015 by caulfield12

[LDF]

He was referring to who gets the blame or the credit when things go poorly, the scapegoat tendency of the media to assess or apportion blame when things go sour and fans are rightfully frustrated.

 

Obviously, with the Cubs, they told everyone they weren't competing and the expectation was playoffs in 2016 at the earliest.

 

With the White Sox, you've had two high profile complete bust seasons (2011 and 2014) when big things were predicted by everyone. KW would still be the GM and/or nobody would care about the Hahn/KW dynamic had they made it to the playoffs both those years...or maybe even just once, as that's more the average for JR-owned teams.

 

but that is the main point, the sox had that chance and blew it, to take over the chi media, if they would have continue to have won. there is no way chi becomes a sox town other than more WS winning.

 

but for now, every move, every win, every success will be looked at thru those sCrubbie blue glasses.

[Y2Jimmy0]

but that is the main point, the sox had that chance and blew it, to take over the chi media, if they would have continue to have won. there is no way chi becomes a sox town other than more WS winning.

 

but for now, every move, every win, every success will be looked at thru those sCrubbie blue glasses.

 

 

It was never going to be a Sox town.

[Frank_Thomas]

It was never going to be a Sox town.

 

Unfortunately this is reality. But I agree with the post previously stating that this year is the year to spend the money on an impact FA. Next years FA market is horrible. So I think the Sox should look at it as a two year impact move. It may hurt this year but with the $ coming off the books next year with Danks and Laroche it softens the blow. IMO the impact move needs to be this year when the talent is available. There is no doubt any of the three of Upton, Cespedes, or Gordon makes us a better team for atleast the next two seasons. More so than any of the other potential FA in 2017.

[Jake]

I still think KW's comments about "no plan" were a smoke screen and some honesty. Why people took them as a condemnation of RH is beyond me. People just like controversy and picking at carcasses and stuff. Sometimes the media gets creepy like that.

 

Yeah, I gave little thought to that comment. KW has always been saying these things since forever. The only time he says anything more decisive is when he says we have nothing planned or no money available, which inevitably means we're about to make a trade or signing.