CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Many of us believe if the Sox don't sign one of the big 3 OFer's ( Gordon, Upton, Cespedes) that signing Frazier will have been a waste. Needless to say signing one of the BIG 3 will be the richest contract ever given by the Sox. How likely is that ? Would it be more likely the Sox pursue a guy like Fowler to play CF and who's OBP is very high to create a 1-2 OBPunch at the top of the order ? It would mean better OF defense but he's not even close to being the kind of impact bat Upton or Cespedes are. Still Eaton and Fowler at the top of the order would certainly give guys like Abreu and Frazier many opportunities to get RBI's. Maybe Fowler takes a 3 year contract and then the Sox have more room to sign that RH starting pitcher they have been reportedly seeking or add another BP piece like Albers. Or both. Would this kind of back up plan be acceptable or seen as a 1/2 measure ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank_Thomas Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 09:28 AM) Many of us believe if the Sox don't sign one of the big 3 OFer's ( Gordon, Upton, Cespedes) that signing Frazier will have been a waste. Needless to say signing one of the BIG 3 will be the richest contract ever given by the Sox. How likely is that ? Would it be more likely the Sox pursue a guy like Fowler to play CF and who's OBP is very high to create a 1-2 OBPunch at the top of the order ? It would mean better OF defense but he's not even close to being the kind of impact bat Upton or Cespedes are. Still Eaton and Fowler at the top of the order would certainly give guys like Abreu and Frazier many opportunities to get RBI's. Maybe Fowler takes a 3 year contract and then the Sox have more room to sign that RH starting pitcher they have been reportedly seeking or add another BP piece like Albers. Or both. Would this kind of back up plan be acceptable or seen as a 1/2 measure ? Personally Fowler isn't worth the compensation pick attached to him, so I don't have any interest. Edited December 21, 2015 by Frank_Thomas35 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 09:28 AM) Many of us believe if the Sox don't sign one of the big 3 OFer's ( Gordon, Upton, Cespedes) that signing Frazier will have been a waste. Needless to say signing one of the BIG 3 will be the richest contract ever given by the Sox. How likely is that ? Would it be more likely the Sox pursue a guy like Fowler to play CF and who's OBP is very high to create a 1-2 OBPunch at the top of the order ? It would mean better OF defense but he's not even close to being the kind of impact bat Upton or Cespedes are. Still Eaton and Fowler at the top of the order would certainly give guys like Abreu and Frazier many opportunities to get RBI's. Maybe Fowler takes a 3 year contract and then the Sox have more room to sign that RH starting pitcher they have been reportedly seeking or add another BP piece like Albers. Or both. Would this kind of back up plan be acceptable or seen as a 1/2 measure ? I doubt the Sox have interest in Fowler. Will cost them a pick, and he's a below average OF with a mediocre bat. He does walk a good bit, though. And he bats RH, which doesn't make him a natural platoon with anyone on the roster. I would think Parra would be at the top of their list if they fall short Cedpedes, Upton and Gordon. I could also see the Sox being active in trying to find an OF via trade. Not sure who, though. Blackmon and Dickerson would be nice fits that have been discussed, but may be too spendy. Reddick another guy to look at, but he only has one year of control remaining, so he doesn't really fit in the new 2-3 year window, but perhaps could be gotten a little cheaper, but don't see the Sox making another deal with the A's. Beyond that, I don't really see many great fits on the FA market. Perhaps a Span or Austin Jackson. Or a tier lower like Raburn, Murphy or Joyce. But all of those guys have significant question marks..I'd almost prefer to see a Shuck/Avi platoon in RF than signing some(most) of those guys, outside of Span, any just see what happens..you can always try to pick up an OF in June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Depends on prices, but I like Austin Jackson. He couldn't hit with Seattle, but is still only 28 or 29. He would be an upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Let's hope not the good 'ol we can make adjustments at the trade deadline school of thought. Too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 i was thinking about this, would the sox deal with a 3 tier of'er and maybe bring in a better hitting dh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 10:04 AM) Depends on prices, but I like Austin Jackson. He couldn't hit with Seattle, but is still only 28 or 29. He would be an upgrade. I'd go for that. No Fowler though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 No thanks to giving up a pick and $50+M for Dexter Fowler Parra makes some sense but he can't be in the lineup against lefties along with already having LaRoche. So we would have to carry 2 platoon guys on the bench. Seems tough to do. Not much we can afford to trade in the minors of much worthat this point either. Fullmer, Adams, and Anderson should be untouchable. In other words 1 of Cespedes or Upton has to be signed pretty much no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Fowler makes a ton of sense if not for that damn QO. Would have loved to see him in the 2 spot and have 2 guys in him and Eaton getting on base at a good clip ahead of Abreu/Fraizer......Wouldn't hate to see them still go for him as he makes the lineup, and defense, a whole lot better, but prefer they stay away......Gimme Parra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Marcell Ozuna. Rodon, Anderson, Garcia and a couple other prospects for Fernandez and Ozuna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 07:42 AM) I doubt the Sox have interest in Fowler. Will cost them a pick, and he's a below average OF with a mediocre bat. He does walk a good bit, though. And he bats RH, which doesn't make him a natural platoon with anyone on the roster. I would think Parra would be at the top of their list if they fall short Cespedes, Upton and Gordon. I could also see the Sox being active in trying to find an OF via trade. Not sure who, though. Blackmon and Dickerson would be nice fits that have been discussed, but may be too spendy. Reddick another guy to look at, but he only has one year of control remaining, so he doesn't really fit in the new 2-3 year window, but perhaps could be gotten a little cheaper, but don't see the Sox making another deal with the A's. Beyond that, I don't really see many great fits on the FA market. Perhaps a Span or Austin Jackson. Or a tier lower like Raburn, Murphy or Joyce. But all of those guys have significant question marks..I'd almost prefer to see a Shuck/Avi platoon in RF than signing some(most) of those guys, outside of Span, any just see what happens..you can always try to pick up an OF in June. Losing the draft pick would be a main obstacle to what I mentioned. In 2005 Pods had an OBP of .351 and Iguchi .342 . Last year Eaton was at .361 and Fowler .346 but the previous 3 years were .375, .369 and .389 and his OPS surprisingly has always been above .750 . Also in 2005 I noticed that all the Sox regulars had HR's in double digits and OPS above .700 except for Pods. Abreu ,Frazier, Eaton, Fowler, Cabrera, LaRoche ,Lawrie ,Navarro ,Garcia and maybe even Saladino all seem capable of 10+ HR's although a .700+ OPS might be a bit of a stretch for some of them. Many of you cite Upton's OBP as a reason why he is the more attractive free agent. Fowlers OBP is very very good usually and he did hit 17 HR last year and can improve the defense more than Upton and play CF to move Eaton to left which might be his more natural position. Fowler is like Upton lite. If the Sox sign one of the big 3 do they really have the money then to get that other RH starter they are seeking or would it have to be bargain basement shopping again ? A Fowler signing would mean more payroll flexibilty would it not ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 QUOTE (striker @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 05:44 PM) Marcell Ozuna. Rodon, Anderson, Garcia and a couple other prospects for Fernandez and Ozuna. no way..... that will negate all the good work that was done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 11:48 AM) no way..... that will negate all the good work that was done. Yeah, I posted that before I looked into Fernendez. I knew he had TJ but didn't realize he was such a health risk. I'd keep Rodon over Fernandez. I'd still like Ozuna somehow though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (striker @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 10:50 AM) Yeah, I posted that before I looked into Fernendez. I knew he had TJ but didn't realize he was such a health risk. I'd keep Rodon over Fernandez. I'd still like Ozuna somehow though. That deal probably doesn't get you Fernandez, let alone Fernandez and Ozuna (edit). But I don't think the Sox would be interested in that trade anyway, let alone what it would actually take to get both of them.. Leave Rodon alone. The dude is gonna be a true ace very soon. Edited December 21, 2015 by ChiSox59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 QUOTE (striker @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 04:50 PM) Yeah, I posted that before I looked into Fernendez. I knew he had TJ but didn't realize he was such a health risk. I'd keep Rodon over Fernandez. I'd still like Ozuna somehow though. i can see liking ozuna but not for rodon and anderson. no matter including fernadaz in the pkg. but the marlins will want their pound of flesh in any deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 The fall back plan is one of the following: 1. Perhaps make a trade or sign a free agent from out of the bargain bin as February rolls around and guys are looking for any team to join. 2. Do nothing and "hope" Garcia figures it out. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmooncreeping Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 No way on Fowler, besides the lost draft pick his market is way over-inflated. I'd like to think of him as a good add-on guy AFTER you bring in one of the top 3, but he's going to get paid more than I'd be willing to go. If I'm parting with a draft pick, it's Upton or Gordon and no one else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 QUOTE (scs787 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 08:42 AM) Fowler makes a ton of sense if not for that damn QO. Would have loved to see him in the 2 spot and have 2 guys in him and Eaton getting on base at a good clip ahead of Abreu/Fraizer......Wouldn't hate to see them still go for him as he makes the lineup, and defense, a whole lot better, but prefer they stay away......Gimme Parra. According to Fangraphs Upton's WAR last year was 3.6, Fowler's 3.2 , Parra's .4 due to a surprisingly bad defensive rating. With the current lack of movement on OF'ers maybe Fowler decides to cut bait and sign for less . It might not take $50M+ to sign him if he takes 3 years. Yes losing the pick would hurt. Just don't see the Sox having much left to make a trade . They've dumped an awful lot of minor leaguers the last few seasons and losing a draft pick when they need to re stock the system would help . But the payroll becomes a lot more hamstrung signing Upton and you also lose the pick and might lose the ability to make another significant signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 09:26 AM) No way on Fowler, besides the lost draft pick his market is way over-inflated. I'd like to think of him as a good add-on guy AFTER you bring in one of the top 3, but he's going to get paid more than I'd be willing to go. If I'm parting with a draft pick, it's Upton or Gordon and no one else. We'll have to see if it really is over inflated. The glut of OFer's on the market is making many of these guys sweat it out. Fowler maybe should have been one of those guys to accept the QO . He most likely wants 4/5 years but it appears these guys are not going to get what they are asking especially if the Big 3 all sign for less than expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knackattack Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 If you can't sign one of the big guys, sign Parra and Fowler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingandalongonetoleft Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 09:28 AM) What is the Sox fall back OF plan ? /green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 05:43 PM) We'll have to see if it really is over inflated. The glut of OFer's on the market is making many of these guys sweat it out. Fowler maybe should have been one of those guys to accept the QO . He most likely wants 4/5 years but it appears these guys are not going to get what they are asking especially if the Big 3 all sign for less than expected. yeah i agree, i think his agent screwed it up, he should have accepted the QO and then wait till next yr for fa's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 05:17 PM) The fall back plan is one of the following: 1. Perhaps make a trade or sign a free agent from out of the bargain bin as February rolls around and guys are looking for any team to join. 2. Do nothing and "hope" Garcia figures it out. Mark i agree with #1 as well. but some teams haven't made any noise as of yet. i am wondering..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I think the alternative is an upgrade at SS, someone via the trade market (at OF) or a move to bolster the rotation. If they do either scenario 2 or 3 that I listed, it means bringing someone like an Austin Jackson (i.e., buy low candidate), in, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmooncreeping Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 11:43 AM) We'll have to see if it really is over inflated. The glut of OFer's on the market is making many of these guys sweat it out. Fowler maybe should have been one of those guys to accept the QO . He most likely wants 4/5 years but it appears these guys are not going to get what they are asking especially if the Big 3 all sign for less than expected. Fowler's market may end up affordable; I originally expected it to be way high but with the logjam of outfielders and lack of signings maybe it ends up reasonable. He'll probably get 3 years imo, definitely not 4 or 5. But you still lose the draft pick and I'm afraid that while we're waiting around for Fowler's market to take shape, the big 3 will end up signing elsewhere. If we are trying for Gordon on a reduced rate compared to Upton/Cespedes, ok, then you give it a quick attempt. If you get the feeling Gordon is using the Sox for leverage in his talks with the Royals, bail outta there and throw the truck at Upton/Cespedes. I feel like after maneuvering to land Frazier we can't now miss on one of the 3 (Gordon, Upton, Cespedes) or whoever we end up getting will just be a consolation signing and feel like lipstick on a pig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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