What is the Sox fall back OF plan ?

[LDF]

Pitt seems unlikely to be in the market for a SP at a high price given that they're going to want to leave 2 rotation spots for the 2 pitchers they will hope will start the season at AAA. They've acted exactly that way this offseason; they have Cole for several seasons and Liriano for 2 more years as their 1-2, they have then tried to fill in the middle part of their rotation with Neise and Vogelsong. They've done the thing that they've done every single year; try to build a team with someone appropriate at every spot and then hope that some of their guys overplay what they're paying for, which works for them because they have built a very strong roster around those guys. It's the same strategy that has gotten them in the playoffs the last several years.

 

oh don't get me wrong, i am in agreement there. but we are talking about pitt and their need to make the playoff and make money.

 

in mlb trade rumor, and i went back to thanksgiving and i can't find that stupid article where, the writer wrote, that if they were to move marte, it would solve their holes. they were talking about a young sp, and other pieces. they will need. but it was all up to pitt and their FO.

 

however since other teams got stronger, i just don't know. i still seeing them getting a fa'sp ..... they have toooooo , in order to keep up with the other 2 teams in the division.

 

btw, they got a great group of players ready to start knocking on the door.

Edited December 27, 2015 by LDF

[Balta1701]

oh don't get me wrong, i am in agreement there. but we are talking about pitt and their need to make the playoff and make money.

 

in mlb trade rumor, and i went back to thanksgiving and i can't find that stupid article where, the writer wrote, that if they were to move marte, it would solve their holes. they were talking about a young sp, and other pieces. they will need. but it was all up to pitt and their FO.

 

however since other teams got stronger, i just don't know. i still seeing them getting a fa'sp ..... they have toooooo , in order to keep up with the other 2 teams in the division.

 

btw, they got a great group of players ready to start knocking on the door.

I could still absolutely see them moving Melancon to look to the future given that the division has 2 other extremely strong teams in it, they pencil in as much better in 2017 than in 2016 already, and Melancon is a free agent after 2016. However, Marte is under team control through 2021 with an incredibly team friendly contract. He may very well be more valuable than Chris Sale. At the very worst he is comparable in value to Quintana. They'd be silly to move him and in Pittsburgh there has been literally zero talk of moving him. It's the exact opposite of the way the Pirates have behaved.

[LDF]

I could still absolutely see them moving Melancon to look to the future given that the division has 2 other extremely strong teams in it, they pencil in as much better in 2017 than in 2016 already, and Melancon is a free agent after 2016. However, Marte is under team control through 2021 with an incredibly team friendly contract. He may very well be more valuable than Chris Sale. At the very worst he is comparable in value to Quintana. They'd be silly to move him and in Pittsburgh there has been literally zero talk of moving him. It's the exact opposite of the way the Pirates have behaved.

 

ref to bold, i never, i mean never look at it that way. interesting... but then we have to take several things in consideration, maybe this is why i didn't of it. it is the Pitt org, they are on a strict budget. they do not like to spend large money on some players contract. they have the cf'er contract they was to extend and lets not forget their catcher contract that will need to be address quickly.

 

so marte and the value of his contract, esp in later yrs, i just don't know. i really can't figure out what pitt will do next, except to address that sp for next yr.

 

nice post.

[LDF]

I could still absolutely see them moving Melancon to look to the future given that the division has 2 other extremely strong teams in it, they pencil in as much better in 2017 than in 2016 already, and Melancon is a free agent after 2016. However, Marte is under team control through 2021 with an incredibly team friendly contract. He may very well be more valuable than Chris Sale. At the very worst he is comparable in value to Quintana. They'd be silly to move him and in Pittsburgh there has been literally zero talk of moving him. It's the exact opposite of the way the Pirates have behaved.

 

oops i forgot to talk about melancon.... i can't figure out what kind of market will be for him.

[BlackSox13]

Pittsburgh is in a very envious position right now. They have a team in place for '16 to be considered legit contenders. If things go well in their minors this season, the Pirates will be trading veteran salaries to make room for Glasnow/Taillon in the rotation, Bell for 1B, Hanson for 2B and Meadows for CF. Imo, McCutchen will be traded for a haul to help replenish the farm and reduce payroll to give the Pirates more financial flexibility.

 

I really do envy the position the Pirates are in right now. After all these years, they finally have a front office and scouts that know what they are doing. The Pirates will be perennial contenders for the foreseeable future. Good for them.

[LDF]

Pittsburgh is in a very envious position right now. They have a team in place for '16 to be considered legit contenders. If things go well in their minors this season, the Pirates will be trading veteran salaries to make room for Glasnow/Taillon in the rotation, Bell for 1B, Hanson for 2B and Meadows for CF. Imo, McCutchen will be traded for a haul to help replenish the farm and reduce payroll to give the Pirates more financial flexibility.

 

I really do envy the position the Pirates are in right now. After all these years, they finally have a front office and scouts that know what they are doing. The Pirates will be perennial contenders for the foreseeable future. Good for them.

 

excellent post. and i am in total agreement on the position. with ref to thier financial, who know what they would do and i hate that they will or could think of breaking that team up. very great potential across the board.

 

as you said, bell, they just sign a bridge for a 2 yr contract to platoon with morse. i can see them looking at bell as a part time 1b / platoon in 17.

 

that outfield..... wow. who is or has more value to the team, mccutchen or marte??? but here is the real question, they have 2 minor league of'ers who will be knocking on the door, is any of them plays good cf???

 

balta mention mencoln .... but that is 51 saves. i don't see them having a replacement for him... i think he can't be traded.

 

money..... they can't compete with the like of the northside or stl.... but that will be a fun division to watch. with nl west being 2nd.

[Balta1701]

balta mention mencoln .... but that is 51 saves. i don't see them having a replacement for him... i think he can't be traded.

They have Tony Watson, one of the best setup men in baseball, who could take over that spot if Melancon was traded.

[BlackSox13]

excellent post. and i am in total agreement on the position. with ref to thier financial, who know what they would do and i hate that they will or could think of breaking that team up. very great potential across the board.

 

as you said, bell, they just sign a bridge for a 2 yr contract to platoon with morse. i can see them looking at bell as a part time 1b / platoon in 17.

 

that outfield..... wow. who is or has more value to the team, mccutchen or marte??? but here is the real question, they have 2 minor league of'ers who will be knocking on the door, is any of them plays good cf???

 

balta mention mencoln .... but that is 51 saves. i don't see them having a replacement for him... i think he can't be traded.

 

money..... they can't compete with the like of the northside or stl.... but that will be a fun division to watch. with nl west being 2nd.

Meadows plays a good CF and is expected to stick. After '16 McCutchen be under conyract through '17 with and option for '18 so he will still be quite valuable on the trade market next winter and will bring Pittsburgh a nice haul in a trade. To answer your question, McCutchen HS the most value and will be the OF Pittsburgh trades next winter.

 

While Pittsburgh doesn't have the money the Cards and cubs have, they dont need to with the way they are producing quality young cost controlled talent. Pittsburgh is growing hitters and pitchers on their farm.

[LDF]

They have Tony Watson, one of the best setup men in baseball, who could take over that spot if Melancon was traded.

 

again, i never look at this. watson as a closer. excellent catch as a possible closer. you do know, he never closed in his career.

 

another thing i just looked at was melancon was his contract. his contract. it is really nice know, after 2017 he is a free agent. as you mention, and i am using the pirates M.O. or their known practice, they may look into dealing him..... as you said.

 

nice one.

Edited December 27, 2015 by LDF

[LDF]

Meadows plays a good CF and is expected to stick. After '16 McCutchen be under conyract through '17 with and option for '18 so he will still be quite valuable on the trade market next winter and will bring Pittsburgh a nice haul in a trade. To answer your question, McCutchen HS the most value and will be the OF Pittsburgh trades next winter.

 

While Pittsburgh doesn't have the money the Cards and cubs have, they dont need to with the way they are producing quality young cost controlled talent. Pittsburgh is growing hitters and pitchers on their farm.

 

excellent

[BlackSox13]

Just wanted to throw out an alternative idea to signing one of the big three since I'm not sold on he Sox making the commitment those three are seeking.

 

Going by the assumption JR would raise the payroll 20-25M to sign one of Gordon/Upton/Cespedes. Signing one of them would mean a shift for Melky to RF or Avi in RF and Melky to DH. My alternative idea is this...

 

LaRoche is a sunk cost and IMHO a bench bat/late inning defensive replacement at 1B. Leave Melky in LF since its the only position he can play, albeit not very well. Sign Parra to play RF, he is an upgrade over Avi and would bring a left handed bat with some speed to a lineup that can use it. Next, sign Alvarez to DH and supply left handed power to the middle of the lineup that needs it.

 

Parra can probably get a Melky type contract. 3-4 years at likely 13-15M per year.

 

Alvarez is likely looking for a one year deal in the 8-10M range to hopefully build his value to seek a long term contract next winter. Hitting at the Cell for a season could do just that and the Sox benefit from his potential power production and if he hits well, the Sox offer a QO to which he declines and the Sox get a comp pick for the '17 draft for one year of his services. Also, should the Sox not contend, he becomes potential trade bait at the deadline, if he is hitting of course.

 

My thinking is that it might be a better idea to spend the money to upgrade two spots in the lineup instead of just one since there ae some holes still. Admittedly these are marginal upgrades compared to signing one of the big three but IMO signing Alvarez/Parra is less risky than a 4-6 year contract that will cost 100-150M. After the '16 season the Sox would have the contracts of Danks/LaRoche/Alvarez coming off the books and free up a ton of payroll space. Space that will be needed to account for pay raises to the likes of Eaon, Sale and Q plus its possible Abreu opts for arbitration and will surely get more money. The money left after that allows the Sox to sign or trade for a player that has a bigger salary.

 

Just trying to think outside the teeny tiny box the media has many thinking in. Just because signing on of the big three makes sense does not mean it will happen or that's its the best move for the Sox.

[Chicago White Sox]

No way on giving Parra 3 to 4 years with an AAV of $13M. That would be a terrible use of resources and would barely make our team better. Hell, Jacob May could probably get you better production in 2017 at the league minimum. If we're serious about competing next year, we need to add an impact OF and Parra clearly doesn't qualify.

[SoCalSox]

No way on giving Parra 3 to 4 years with an AAV of $13M. That would be a terrible use of resources and would barely make our team better. Hell, Jacob May could probably get you better production in 2017 at the league minimum. If we're serious about competing next year, we need to add an impact OF and Parra clearly doesn't qualify.

 

Not to mention, they could very easily find a way to either clear an extra $5M for 2016 or simply backload the first year to make a contract fit if they can get one of the big 3.

 

Looking at Parra's numbers, he combined for less than 1 fWAR the past two seasons vs any of the others who are consistently putting up 2-4 WAR per season.

 

Was reading something last week saying that teams are paying $6-8M per WAR on FAs. Parra would not be worth it by that value.

[BlackSox13]

No way on giving Parra 3 to 4 years with an AAV of $13M. That would be a terrible use of resources and would barely make our team better. Hell, Jacob May could probably get you better production in 2017 at the league minimum. If we're serious about competing next year, we need to add an impact OF and Parra clearly doesn't qualify.

Investing 4-6 years and 100-150M$ could also be viewed as a terrible waste of resources. Depends on ones point of view. As for May, I'm high on the kid but he's not going to be a right fielder so there's no reason to use him in a comparison with Parra. May's arm is below average and is destined for LF, a position he could easily upgrade over Melky. After the '16 season, LaRoche will be gone and Melky can move to DH and open up LF for May, if May is ready to make the jump.

[cabiness42]

Since there's no catch-all, I'll leave this here:

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14426800...true-feats-2015

 

On Sept. 3, Bryce Harper got through an entire game without swinging at a single pitch -- and still scored four runs. Meanwhile in Chicago, Melky Cabrera swung at 23 pitches that day -- and scored no runs.

[BlackSox13]

Lol!

 

" We found out again this year that White Sox ace Chris Sale is unhittable. We also found out, however, that he isn't unbreakable. You'd think there would be nothing that could stop this man from pitching on Opening Day. But here's what did: his truck. He was unloading it during spring training, neglected to stick the landing and broke a bone in his foot. Next time, he might want to hire a few Teamsters."

[caulfield12]

http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2015/12/28/106...-add-outfielder

 

Nationals looking for OF help but not connected to Big 3 here...

 

A name we haven't heard much for a platoon is Will Venable, but you'd have to guess he is going to stay in NL. The other names are the typical Tier 2/3 ones...along with trading for Blackmon or CarGo (see StL).

[BlackSox13]

I take it the Nat's see Taylor as a fourth outfielder?

[caulfield12]

I take it the Nat's see Taylor as a fourth outfielder?

 

Or back to minors like Avi potentially...appears they don't have enough with Span gone to get by with two big question marks.

 

Need some more certainty/predictability in CF.

[BlackSox13]

Or back to minors like Avi potentially...appears they don't have enough with Span gone to get by with two big question marks.

 

Need some more certainty/predictability in CF.

Makes sense.

 

I'd take Taylor off their hands for a 4th outfielder.

[GreenSox]

If I'm Pitt. I don't do anything this year as far as outfielders go. Wait until after the '16 season to give Meadows more time at AAA and then Pitt, imo, will put McCutchen on the market for a major haul and roll with Meadows in '17 while bringing up Bell for 1B. The right haul for McCutchen will replace the minor league voids left by the Meadows/Bell call ups and Pitt's farm won't miss a beat. Pitt is being very smart with regard to how they are handing the organization as a whole. They are home-growing some very nice talent!

And yet, at the suggestion that the Sox do something like that, people squawk to high heaven and demand trading young players for "proven veterans". And, of couse, Kenny Williams obliged. (thankfully Hahn negotiates the deals once the proven veteran is identified).

McCutchen is a better player than anyone on the Sox, and is an absolute star, so they better be careful about trading him.

Edited December 28, 2015 by GreenSox

[OmarComing25]

And yet, at the suggestion that the Sox do something like that, people squawk to high heaven and demand trading young players for "proven veterans". And, of couse, Kenny Williams obliged. (thankfully Hahn negotiates the deals once the proven veteran is identified).

McCutchen is a better player than anyone on the Sox, and is an absolute star, so they better be careful about trading him.

You're not talking about Eaton again, are you? Not even close to the same thing.

[BlackSox13]

And yet, at the suggestion that the Sox do something like that, people squawk to high heaven and demand trading young players for "proven veterans". And, of couse, Kenny Williams obliged. (thankfully Hahn negotiates the deals once the proven veteran is identified).

McCutchen is a better player than anyone on the Sox, and is an absolute star, so they better be careful about trading him.

Despite what people may think, its JR that wants a winner and prevents the Sox from rebuilding, not KW. If I owned the Sox and was almost 80, I'd probably do the same. The owner of the Pirates is Robert Nutting who is only 53 so he has had plenty of time and many losing years to accumulate the sustainable talent they now have to build a perennial contender. The age disparity between the owners is why their approach to building the organizations is so different. I'm not the biggest KW fan but he takes more s*** with regards to the direction of the team than he deserves.

 

As for McCutchen, the FA market next winter will be absolute s*** and will drive up McCutchen's trade value. As long as McCutchen stays healthy, hits and fields his position in '16, the Pirates will be sitting on a gold mine and imo will cash in and get a huge haul.

[Bob Sacamano]

And yet, at the suggestion that the Sox do something like that, people squawk to high heaven and demand trading young players for "proven veterans". And, of couse, Kenny Williams obliged. (thankfully Hahn negotiates the deals once the proven veteran is identified).

McCutchen is a better player than anyone on the Sox, and is an absolute star, so they better be careful about trading him.

 

It's not really the same. Like at all.

[caulfield12]

The only thing close would be the White Sox trading Sale or possibly Abreu/Rodon.

 

Not even Quintana.

 

Of course, it would be perfectly logical in the case of the Pirates with all their minor league talent (especially pitching), Marte being almost as good as Cutch now and younger, Gerrit Cole and Liriano, Bell for 1B, Kang rehabbing, Polanco also has all the tools but hasn't fulfilled his promise and needs a development year...taking that step back, letting Alvarez and Walker go, probably trading Melancon and elevating Watson or even trading Watson at his peak as well and replacing him with the likes of another Jason Grilli or Melancon again. Rinse/repeat.

 

The core of that team will be even stronger in 2017 and 2018...but the odds of being better than the Cubs and Cards in their own division aren't that great this season.

 

It's the perfect "interim" strategy for a smaller market team where they still have a decent chance (and can add at the Break if necessary) but they're not doing anything desperate that will negatively impact their long-term core.