Alex Gordon Thread

[Chisoxfn]

Upton's been on the DL a grand total of 1 time in his career, in 2008.

Damn facts.

[Bob Sacamano]

Upton's been on the DL a grand total of 1 time in his career, in 2008.

 

Damn. I must have been more focused on last season. Had him in fantasy and he would miss games due to nagging injuries but not go on dl. But still the strikeouts fact still stands.

[shipps]

Damn. I must have been more focused on last season. Had him in fantasy and he would miss games due to nagging injuries but not go on dl. But still the strikeouts fact still stands.

 

I am going to check with Kalapse to make sure it does.

[OmarComing25]

Just some light reading for those worried about signing Gordon:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/alex-gordon...in-free-agency/

That article estimates Gordon's contract to be 5 years at $108M, that feels way too high.

[caulfield12]

Honestly, Gordon to the White Sox doesn't happen because we are never on the right side of the ledger in these deals where we add and subtract from a divisional foe...

 

2003 Kenny Rogers cheaply to the Twins, Sox have no fifth starter and fall short

2010 Thome to the Twins, Kotsay/A. Jones to the Sox

Miguel Cabrera to Detroit because of better minor league talent in Maybin and Miller at time of trade

2011 Dunn to the White Sox, Victor Martinez to the Tigers

 

That's three White Six playoff teams alone (2003/2010/2012) and the likelihood of even more with Miggy Cabrera in the fold that whole time.

 

See below.

 

You could make the same arguments even about last year...had the White Sox brought in Morales instead of LaRoche, C.Young/Madson/Volquez/Cueto instead of Shark, Robertson and Duke...Zobrist over Cabrera.

 

Granted, the Royals were willing to sacrifice much of their farm in the process, as they didn't pick up any of the two month remaining salaries for Cue-to and Zobrist.

 

I can't think of any time predating 2000 where we hurt a divisional foe and helped ourselves simultaneously. Guess it has to happen someday, right?

Edited December 22, 2015 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

That article estimates Gordon's contract to be 5 years at $108M, that feels way too high.

That's not what the author expects him to get, it's an estimated "fair" contract based on expected production. His point is any contract below 5/$108M would provide surplus value based on his forecasts.

[Chicago White Sox]

Honestly, Gordon to the White Sox doesn't happen because we are never on the right side of the ledger in these deals where we add and subtract from a divisional foe...

 

2003 Kenny Rogers cheaply to the Twins, Sox have no fifth starter and fall short

2010 Thome to the Twins, Kotsay/A. Jones to the Sox

Miguel Cabrera to Detroit because of better minor league talent in Maybin and Miller at time of trade

2011 Dunn to the White Sox, Victor Martinez to the Tigers

 

That's three White Six playoff teams alone (2003/2010/2012) and the likelihood of even more with Miggy Cabrera in the fold that whole time.

 

See below.

 

You could make the same arguments even about last year...had the White Sox brought in Morales instead of LaRoche, C.Young/Madson/Volquez/Cueto instead of Shark, Robertson and Duke...Zobrist over Cabrera.

 

Granted, the Royals were willing to sacrifice much of their farm in the process, as they didn't pick up any of the two month remaining salaries for Cue-to and Zobrist.

 

I can't think of any time predating 2000 where we hurt a divisional foe and helped ourselves simultaneously. Guess it has to happen someday, right?

Dude, you are really started to reach. It must really break your heart having imagine Gordon on the Sox.

[Dick Allen]

Honestly, Gordon to the White Sox doesn't happen because we are never on the right side of the ledger in these deals where we add and subtract from a divisional foe...

 

2003 Kenny Rogers cheaply to the Twins, Sox have no fifth starter and fall short

2010 Thome to the Twins, Kotsay/A. Jones to the Sox

Miguel Cabrera to Detroit because of better minor league talent in Maybin and Miller at time of trade

2011 Dunn to the White Sox, Victor Martinez to the Tigers

 

That's three White Six playoff teams alone (2003/2010/2012) and the likelihood of even more with Miggy Cabrera in the fold that whole time.

 

See below.

 

You could make the same arguments even about last year...had the White Sox brought in Morales instead of LaRoche, C.Young/Madson/Volquez/Cueto instead of Shark, Robertson and Duke...Zobrist over Cabrera.

 

Granted, the Royals were willing to sacrifice much of their farm in the process, as they didn't pick up any of the two month remaining salaries for Cue-to and Zobrist.

 

I can't think of any time predating 2000 where we hurt a divisional foe and helped ourselves simultaneously. Guess it has to happen someday, right?

Whatevs.

[caulfield12]

That article estimates Gordon's contract to be 5 years at $108M, that feels way too high.

 

How many players have signed for significantly less than estimated so far?

 

Just a few.

 

We all said 4 and more likely five years...$80-110 million since the beginning of the free agency period. The lowest offer besides the rumored lowball/hometown discount was around $75 million from the Cardinals.

[ChiSox59]

Honestly, Gordon to the White Sox doesn't happen because we are never on the right side of the ledger in these deals where we add and subtract from a divisional foe...

 

2003 Kenny Rogers cheaply to the Twins, Sox have no fifth starter and fall short

2010 Thome to the Twins, Kotsay/A. Jones to the Sox

Miguel Cabrera to Detroit because of better minor league talent in Maybin and Miller at time of trade

2011 Dunn to the White Sox, Victor Martinez to the Tigers

 

That's three White Six playoff teams alone (2003/2010/2012) and the likelihood of even more with Miggy Cabrera in the fold that whole time.

 

See below.

 

You could make the same arguments even about last year...had the White Sox brought in Morales instead of LaRoche, C.Young/Madson/Volquez/Cueto instead of Shark, Robertson and Duke...Zobrist over Cabrera.

 

Granted, the Royals were willing to sacrifice much of their farm in the process, as they didn't pick up any of the two month remaining salaries for Cue-to and Zobrist.

 

I can't think of any time predating 2000 where we hurt a divisional foe and helped ourselves simultaneously. Guess it has to happen someday, right?

 

Hahahaha, all of that garbage has zero bearing on anything relating the the 2016 White Sox.

 

[caulfield12]

Whatevs.

 

Typical.

 

If there was a clever retort to be made...or a substantive response.

 

Oh well.

[OmarComing25]

That's not what the author expects him to get, it's an estimated "fair" contract based on expected production. His point is any contract below 5/$108M would provide surplus value based on his forecasts.

Ahh you're right, I read that completely wrong.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Typical.

 

If there was a clever retort to be made...or a substantive response.

 

Oh well.

While your original post has a point, how is any of that relevant to next years team and beyond? The past is the past. Hopefully the Sox have learned from their mistakes from the times you listed and improved upon them.

[OmarComing25]

Typical.

 

If there was a clever retort to be made...or a substantive response.

 

Oh well.

There's not much else to say about that post, it was very forced and seemed like you were just looking for reasons to be negative.

[LDF]

While your original post has a point, how is any of that relevant to next years team and beyond? The past is the past. Hopefully the Sox have learned from their mistakes from the times you listed and improved upon them.

 

the pro's uses the past as a trend to estimate how a player will performs.

 

the org are always paying for past performances.

[caulfield12]

Hahahaha, all of that garbage has zero bearing on anything relating the the 2016 White Sox.

 

By your line of thinking, nobody would or should ever consider past history when choosing a mutual fund or the make and model of an automobile purchase for that matter.

 

So what exactly would cause us to disregard all past Sox history about bad/wrong moves and never giving up more than a contract in the mid to upper $60's (Danks, Dunn, Abreu the highest)...

 

What does have bearing that we can objectively consider or quantify, pray tell?

[Chisoxfn]

Honestly, Gordon to the White Sox doesn't happen because we are never on the right side of the ledger in these deals where we add and subtract from a divisional foe...

 

2003 Kenny Rogers cheaply to the Twins, Sox have no fifth starter and fall short

2010 Thome to the Twins, Kotsay/A. Jones to the Sox

Miguel Cabrera to Detroit because of better minor league talent in Maybin and Miller at time of trade

2011 Dunn to the White Sox, Victor Martinez to the Tigers

 

That's three White Six playoff teams alone (2003/2010/2012) and the likelihood of even more with Miggy Cabrera in the fold that whole time.

 

See below.

 

You could make the same arguments even about last year...had the White Sox brought in Morales instead of LaRoche, C.Young/Madson/Volquez/Cueto instead of Shark, Robertson and Duke...Zobrist over Cabrera.

 

Granted, the Royals were willing to sacrifice much of their farm in the process, as they didn't pick up any of the two month remaining salaries for Cue-to and Zobrist.

 

I can't think of any time predating 2000 where we hurt a divisional foe and helped ourselves simultaneously. Guess it has to happen someday, right?

Well Kenny Rogers and Thome moves were pretty minor moves in grand scheme of things. They had positive effects but we aren't talking anything magnitude of the other two moves. And you can't even get your facts right on the Miggy deal. That had everything to do with the Marlins being willing to take on the bust that was Dontrell Willis (and his contract). Nothing to do with prospects.

[Dick Allen]

Typical.

 

If there was a clever retort to be made...or a substantive response.

 

Oh well.

Why give a response to guy who thinks Victor Matinez over Adam Dunn would have made up 16 games in the standings.

[Dick Allen]

By your line of thinking, nobody would or should ever consider past history when choosing a mutual fund or the make and model of an automobile purchase for that matter.

 

So what exactly would cause us to disregard all past Sox history about bad/wrong moves and never giving up more than a contract in the mid to upper $60's (Danks, Dunn, Abreu the highest)...

 

What does have bearing that we can objectively consider or quantify, pray tell?

So if the White Sox ever make a bad trade or bad free agent signing they should never make a trade or signing again. Also using this logic, they should drop out of the draft.

[OmarComing25]

By your line of thinking, nobody would or should ever consider past history when choosing a mutual fund or the make and model of an automobile purchase for that matter.

 

So what exactly would cause us to disregard all past Sox history about bad/wrong moves and never giving up more than a contract in the mid to upper $60's (Danks, Dunn, Abreu the highest)...

 

What does have bearing that we can objectively consider or quantify, pray tell?

You consider that post objective? The point it seems you're trying to make is whatever move the Sox make, it's obviously going to be the wrong one, because of LaRoche and Adam Dunn.

[caulfield12]

There's not much else to say about that post, it was very forced and seemed like you were just looking for reasons to be negative.

 

Once again, when was the last time we made a move that simultaneously helped the White Sox and hurt an AL Central divisional rival at the same time?

 

Sox history is Sox history until it isn't. 2005 did happen. That still doesn't mean with all the financial/media market advantages in the last 25 years that we shouldn't have earned 3-5 more playoff spots than we have...

[caulfield12]

You consider that post objective? The point it seems you're trying to make is whatever move the Sox make, it's obviously going to be the wrong one, because of LaRoche and Adam Dunn.

 

Once again, you can go back for as long as you want in White Sox history...sometimes the truth hurts. As Lip often says, the last thirty five years, OTHER than 2005, is a record of mostly missed opportunities for this franchise.

Edited December 22, 2015 by caulfield12

[OmarComing25]

Once again, when was the last time we made a move that simultaneously helped the White Sox and hurt an AL Central divisional rival at the same time?

 

Sox history is Sox history until it isn't. 2005 did happen. That still doesn't mean with all the financial/media market advantages in the last 25 years that we shouldn't have earned 3-5 more playoff spots than we have...

That has literally nothing to do with whether or not we're going to get Gordon, or whether Gordon will end up being the right move for us. If Gordon had played for the Orioles or Rays last year, you wouldn't be talking about this.

Edited December 22, 2015 by OmarComing25

[Dick Allen]

Caulfield in full meltdown. His biggest nightmare, Royal hero a possible White Sox, and now he is back to the White Sox should have been in the playoffs this many times in the past. It is happening. Hahn making moves and the chronic whiners are melting.

[Chisoxfn]

Once again, when was the last time we made a move that simultaneously helped the White Sox and hurt an AL Central divisional rival at the same time?

 

Sox history is Sox history until it isn't. 2005 did happen. That still doesn't mean with all the financial/media market advantages in the last 25 years that we shouldn't have earned 3-5 more playoff spots than we have...

I don't really care about the past. All I care is about what happens now. I also only care about what upgrades the Sox. If it happens to downgrade a rival, great. Getting Adam Dunn had nothing to do with the Tigers getting Victor Martinez. It wasn't pulling from a contender. Dunn was coming from the NL. Or maybe I should point out to the 2005 offseason and how Sox beat everyone else and won the series. Either way, that is history, what does it matter?