Vance Law Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Dec 24, 2015 -> 08:39 AM) I'm here many years as Cy Acosta and have only posted ~150 times (lurked from 2002/2003 with no account as well). Don't post that often because (a) I prefer reading other's opinions, and (b) I generally only offer my opinion if it's something I feel strongly about. I'm not going to keep flogging this horse, you know. It's personal opinion, armchair GM'ing. If I were Hahn, I'd do X. Well, allowing for the factor that RH certainly has access to a lot of hard info that I'm not privy to that might better inform his subjective opinion, I know that if I were Sox GM, I'm all about locking-up the all-around player Gordon -- reaping the benefit of his defense, left-handedness, all-around strong offensive game, fire on the field, supposed quality in the clubhouse -- then pocketing the savings over an Upton or Cespedes signing for more moves later this year or next year. I agree with you here. I'd be happy with any of those 3 guys. Gordon is probably the smart buy and Sox should exploit that. People worry about his age and potentially declining defense without pointing out that Upton's defense already worse than a not yet declined Gordon. And that Upton might get a 7 year deal compared to Gordon's 5. Gordon's also just as good a bet as any of them to be the best offensive player next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 24, 2015 -> 10:58 AM) http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/hitters-no-...k-only-decline/ According to this article, the new peak is 26 years old. Gordon had his best year with 6.6 WAR at age 30 Also, "peak" is an absolutely meaningless term. The overwhelming majority of players in the history of baseball never had a "peak" season at 25 or 26 or 27 or 28 that was as good as Ben Zobrist's 5.5 WAR season at age 33. Is this somehow not good because his "peak" 8.6 WAR season came at 28? Also his peak season came at 28 not 26. Josh Donaldson just won the MVP with his 8.7 WAR "peak" season at 29. Jose Bautista's peak 8.1 WAR season came at 31. He also put up 6.4 WAR at 34. Edwin Encarnacion just had his best season at 32. I could go on. "Peak" is not a real word that means anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I appreciate any inside info I get. So many thanks to Rabbit, Rock and Bucket. I don't challenge people with sources because it's a fickle game. Sometimes you're right and sometimes you're wrong. Keep it coming rabbit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 (edited) KC, at least publicly, is pushing for either Kazmir (4 years at $12-15 million), Gallardo (draft pick attached) or Chen (Boras client). Would supposedly prefer a lefty. The irony is Kazmir is also 32...essentially the same package offered to Gordon. Then you have Latos and Fister. Leaving the question for both teams really, does Span/Parra/Jackson + SP give you a better overall result than Gordon alone and saving roughly $3-7 million overall that can be spent on fa's who last into May/June unsigned or at the trade deadline? Others to consider: Mike Minor Justin Masterson Tim Lincecum Cliff Lee Brandon Beachy Aaron Harang Edited December 24, 2015 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Royals have a 0% chance at Chen. He's seeking 5 yrs $100 million Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 QUOTE (Vance Law @ Dec 24, 2015 -> 12:18 PM) Gordon had his best year with 6.6 WAR at age 30 Also, "peak" is an absolutely meaningless term. The overwhelming majority of players in the history of baseball never had a "peak" season at 25 or 26 or 27 or 28 that was as good as Ben Zobrist's 5.5 WAR season at age 33. Is this somehow not good because his "peak" 8.6 WAR season came at 28? Also his peak season came at 28 not 26. Josh Donaldson just won the MVP with his 8.7 WAR "peak" season at 29. Jose Bautista's peak 8.1 WAR season came at 31. He also put up 6.4 WAR at 34. Edwin Encarnacion just had his best season at 32. I could go on. "Peak" is not a real word that means anything. Gordon in particular was a late bloomer. He was to the point where he was almost considered a bust and then had a breakout year in 2011. I suspect he has several productive years left in him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSox Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 24, 2015 -> 02:23 PM) Gordon in particular was a late bloomer. He was to the point where he was almost considered a bust and then had a breakout year in 2011. I suspect he has several productive years left in him. That's what I think most teams are banking on that are interested in him. From what I've read, he doesn't have much of a market. Overall, he probably fits the need the best for the White Sox outside of his age, which should be a concern at 32. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Dec 24, 2015 -> 04:17 PM) Royals have a 0% chance at Chen. He's seeking 5 yrs $100 million For about a half a second I thought you were talking about Bruce Chen and I almost had a heart attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Dec 24, 2015 -> 04:17 PM) Royals have a 0% chance at Chen. He's seeking 5 yrs $100 million Four years at $50-75 million is the negotiating zone. No way he gets five and $100, even with Boras. But roughly the same numbers being bandied forth about Gordon. One would have to argue that having a deep bullpen that can cover 5-6 inning starts rather than 6-7+, that exploitation of a market inefficiency (having a dominant yet relatively affordable pen) would cause them to be even more reluctant not to get sucked into overpaying for veteran starting pitching with the numbers being so crazy. If anything, it forces teams to look at Latos and Fister more closely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 @BNightengale The #Tigers appear to be sitting back waiting for Yoenis Cespedes, whose price may be dropping. I have a feeling that Gordon is coming to the Sox and Cespedes is going back to Detroit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSox Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 24, 2015 -> 02:37 PM) @BNightengale The #Tigers appear to be sitting back waiting for Yoenis Cespedes, whose price may be dropping. I have a feeling that Gordon is coming to the Sox and Cespedes is going back to Detroit. What would you rather have: Gordon to CHI & Cespedes to DET or Cespedes to CHI & Gordon to KC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 We could always sign Guthrie to prevent him from facing the Sox. Or Raburn. All kidding aside, does anyone prefer Latos, Kazmir or Fister AND Span/Parra/A.Jackson to Gordon alone? It's a worthwhile question for both organizations. Especially if those players are all willing to sign 2-3 year contracts (or two plus an option/buyout) vis a vis Gordon's anticipated 4-5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Dec 24, 2015 -> 04:44 PM) What would you rather have: Gordon to CHI & Cespedes to DET or Cespedes to CHI & Gordon to KC? Cespedes to CHI & Gordon to KC for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peavy44 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 24, 2015 -> 05:06 PM) Cespedes to CHI & Gordon to KC for sure. Whats Cespedes price 6 years $150 million and do you see the sox paying that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconOnAStick Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Sign Cespedes and Gordon. Market inefficiencies are the new market inefficencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 QUOTE (peavy44 @ Dec 24, 2015 -> 05:09 PM) Whats Cespedes price 6 years $150 million and do you see the sox paying that. No chance Cespedes gets $25 m/year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 QUOTE (peavy44 @ Dec 24, 2015 -> 05:09 PM) Whats Cespedes price 6 years $150 million and do you see the sox paying that. I'm guessing Cespedes gets a deal somewhere in the 6 year/$125 million range. QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Dec 24, 2015 -> 05:09 PM) Sign Cespedes and Gordon. Market inefficiencies are the new market inefficencies. I would be very happy if that happened. Let's hope for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSox Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I also think Cespedes gets right around $20-21M per year over 4-6 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peavy44 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 No way White Sox sign Gordon and Cespedes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peavy44 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 24, 2015 -> 05:14 PM) I'm guessing Cespedes gets a deal somewhere in the 6 year/$125 million range. I would be very happy if that happened. Let's hope for the best. So Justin Upton gets higher deal then Cespedes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconOnAStick Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 No way White Sox sign Gordon and Cespedes. I was not being entirely serious. Even though the unwillingness by teams to jump into big money contracts may make the big money contract a viable way to build a team again. Prices are going down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peavy44 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Dec 24, 2015 -> 05:22 PM) I was not being entirely serious. Even though the unwillingness by teams to jump into big money contracts may make the big money contract a viable way to build a team again. Prices are going down. Is A Gordon cost 4 years $75 million or more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black jack Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Dec 24, 2015 -> 04:44 PM) What would you rather have: Gordon to CHI & Cespedes to DET or Cespedes to CHI & Gordon to KC? My preference is Gordon to CWS and Cespedes to CWS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 QUOTE (black jack @ Dec 24, 2015 -> 05:33 PM) My preference is Gordon to CWS and Cespedes to CWS. So then the team would have 4 LF's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peavy44 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 QUOTE (black jack @ Dec 24, 2015 -> 05:33 PM) My preference is Gordon to CWS and Cespedes to CWS. I doubt it we get both guys jerry doesn't wanna spend that much money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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