Alex Gordon Thread

[Frank_Thomas]

Btw I think the guy who posted that nonsense on Twitter this afternoon did it just to promote himself. I wouldnt believe what he tweets for a second. Since he posted that his Twitter picture is now marketing guru blah blah blah. Can't blame a guy for capitalizing. We are Americans for god sake.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Frank_Thomas35

[caulfield12]

By the school of thought of NOT adding that big bat, the question is still when/how?

 

Another fair to middling season with decreasing attendance trend (again) will somehow create more incentive to spend next season than there is now?

 

And for whom? Carlos Gomez?

 

There's an even bigger potential problem. Cleveland is already being favored by some to win the division and Minnesota has one of the best farm systems, so, assuming normal development curves, both of those teams are on the upswing and then you have the Royals with their core for the next two years and the Tigers basically have no other option with their current roster/payroll than to be "all in" as well for the next 2-3 seasons at least. Nobody would be shocked or surprised if they ended up with Gordon/Cespedes/Upton.

 

If this team doesn't make any more significant additions, starts slowly and the Cubs come out of the gate flying...the White Sox will simply cease to exist except when it's time to pick apart the roster for June/July/August deadline deals.

 

And what's really going to change between now and next offseason? Anderson and Fulmer will do so well that they look like future All-Stars in the minors? Well, as we all know, the first year is almost always an adjustment period for rookies, even the most talented. For every Bryant or Abreu, there are 50 Avi Garcia's or Javier Baezes. Rodon took a good 2-3 months to really get his feet solidly underneath him and start to believe that he belonged in the big leagues and to trust his stuff 100%.

 

About the only situation you can imagine is dealing Quintana or Sale for bat/s, but that significantly weakens your rotation...even if Fulmer is ready in 2017, you have only two pitchers you can count on (whoever's left over from Sale/Quintana/Rodon), Carson and then EJ/???. So you're likely 1 if not 2 pitchers short of a full rotation.

 

If those additions to the rotation don't come from the minor leagues (and Adams won't be ready quite yet unless he just has a huge breakout season), where does the money come from to buy them in free agency when even more money will be chasing even fewer impact players? Horrid and/or horrific next year's FA class has been described almost universally.

 

So, even optimistically, you're only left with 2017 to compete because that means you're going to have to also replace Cabrera, Frazier and Lawrie, to name a few (after 2017)...and you're going to be relying on two rookies in huge positions that are almost make-or-break in SS (Anderson) and the starting rotation (Fulmer). That's the narrowest of narrow windows possible to exploit.

Edited December 28, 2015 by caulfield12

[Frank_Thomas]

By the school of thought of NOT adding that big bat, the question is still when/how?

 

Another fair to middling season with decreasing attendance trend (again) will somehow create more incentive to spend next season than there is now?

 

And for whom? Carlos Gomez?

 

There's an even bigger potential problem. Cleveland is already being favored by some to win the division and Minnesota has one of the best farm systems, so, assuming normal development curves, both of those teams are on the upswing and then you have the Royals with their core for the next two years and the Tigers basically have no other option with their current roster/payroll than to be "all in" as well for the next 2-3 seasons at least. Nobody would be shocked or surprised if they ended up with Gordon/Cespedes/Upton.

 

If this team doesn't make any more significant additions, starts slowly and the Cubs come out of the gate flying...the White Sox will simply cease to exist except when it's time to pick apart the roster for June/July/August deadline deals.

 

And what's really going to change between now and next offseason? Anderson and Fulmer will do so well that they look like future All-Stars in the minors? Well, as we all know, the first year is almost always an adjustment period for rookies, even the most talented. For every Bryant or Abreu, there are 50 Avi Garcia's or Javier Baezes. Rodon took a good 2-3 months to really get his feet solidly underneath him and start to believe that he belonged in the big leagues and to trust his stuff 100%.

 

About the only situation you can imagine is dealing Quintana or Sale for bat/s, but that significantly weakens your rotation...even if Fulmer is ready in 2017, you have only two pitchers you can count on (whoever's left over from Sale/Quintana/Rodon), Carson and then EJ/???. So you're likely 1 if not 2 pitchers short of a full rotation.

 

If those additions to the rotation don't come from the minor leagues (and Adams won't be ready quite yet unless he just has a huge breakout season), where does the money come from to buy them in free agency when even more money will be chasing even fewer impact players? Horrid and/or horrific next year's FA class has been described almost universally.

 

So, even optimistically, you're only left with 2017 to compete because that means you're going to have to also replace Cabrera, Frazier and Lawrie, to name a few (after 2017)...and you're going to be relying on two rookies in huge positions that are almost make-or-break in SS (Anderson) and the starting rotation (Fulmer). That's the narrowest of narrow windows possible to exploit.

 

I agree. Clearly with the additions of both Lawrie and Frazier and in the process giving up guys that could have potential in a rebuild the FO is clearly going for it. And you make the point razor sharp by talking about the guys leaving after 2017. Not to mention we have publicly said we are going for it while Sale and Abreu are in their primes.

 

Yea even with the addition of one of the big three we may have holes. But if we are going for it addingsomeone like Alexi at 5 million for a year as a stop gap for Anderson and/or trading a few more horses from the farm to get another solid starter behind or between Q and Rodon would be amazing. In reality though adding one of the big three will not only add a certain dynamic to our offense but also improve the defense in the OF. And that's across the board regardless who of the big three and the various things they do well offensively or defensively. You could roll with that team (with the addition of the big three, EJ and Danks as 3&4, and Saldanio/Sanchez at SS) to spring training and even into the season. When we play ball if you see a hole then fix it. Two holes are always better than three or four. And fixing the D in the process helps all these pitchers.0

 

It's time for us as Sox fans, as South Siders, as "blue collared fans", etc. We are smart baseball loving, fans. And it's time for us to stop being so pessimistic about this FO. And let's start thinking positively about who we will sign. Because we are going for it this season. And we are going for one of these guys. It may not pan out but we are so let's put some positive thinking like last week. If it's not one of these guys I trust they have other avenues open. Let's sit back, relax, and strap it down. And trust RH and Uncle Jerry.

 

The pestimism is reserved for the other side of town.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Frank_Thomas35

[Jerksticks]

^I agree man, well said. We're for sure going for it. That's why we have Frazier and the catcher position looks super solid in theory. I'm all in too so I think they're trying to sign Gordon AND Cespedes w Melky at Dh. Avi & Laroche Sanchez on the bench.

 

Eaton

Gordon

Abreu

Frazier

Cespedes

Melky

Catcher

Lawrie

Saladino

 

Laroche, Sanchez, Shuck, Avi and the new catcher are great bench bats. Great for platooning tough relievers late in the game. I'd love that bench.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Just to reiterate the deal I guess last week..... 4 yrs/$76M.

[Frank_Thomas]

Update on the Tigers chase of the big three, since it seems they maybe consider a contender for one of the big three. From MLBTR:

 

While the Tigers aren’t shy about spending, Paul doesn’t think the team will stray too far (if at all) over the luxury tax limit, so landing a top outfield name like Yoenis Cespedes or Alex Gordon is probably unrealistic. Detroit could move another big contract like Ian Kinsler to make payroll space, though Paul points out that the team would just be creating a new hole at second base to solve a hole in left field. The Tigers could instead save any payroll room for a trade deadline addition.

 

 

There is so much noise out there no one knows what's really going on between these players, their agents, or teams FO's. It's a blast speculating but there's no point because no one knows. Besides our sox talk insiders of course. :cheers

Edited December 28, 2015 by Frank_Thomas35

[LDF]

 

many has made a very compelling argument in both side of picking up a of'er. but i will state my reasoning on the subject.

 

1. i am looking at several key factors, the media in chi and cle rebuilding.... has anyone really study their team. it is a great young group of players missing some key sp's in making a name for themselves.

 

2. they have to dive into this, this quickest way of making the team respectable. to keep pace with the other team and not fall too far behind the power curve that they, the sox have put themselves in by mismanagement.

 

3. the bridge so to speak is a expensive one, fa's as that bridge until 2 things happens, A.- expiring contracts, those unmovable contracts comes off the books, B.- the farm system can start add a flow of key personnel to supplement, to keep replacing players as needed.

 

4. the key players, jose a, sale, Q, and some others are getting older.

 

5. and finally, they are committed to finish this, no matter what, the price of prospects has gone up just as a domino effect of the fa's prices has gone up. the sox need to compete. orders from up on high so dictated it and they can't let this go ....

 

in opinion, they need an of'er, a sp, and a dh in that order. but what will they do. that is the fun part for me. so many options for this team, this org to go in many directions. as a sox fan, i love it !!!!!!!

[Lillian]

Your post didnt make any sense. Your talking about them not being the answer then signing them.

 

Why throw resources in the toilet if your not sold on them?

 

I dont see how standing pat in the outfield is a good thing. Too many issues with Garcia to fix that it's probably extremely likely you'll be looking for his replacement during the deadline assuming your still in the race.

 

I think that I understood the post. I believe that he is trying to say the we could use a short term upgrade in the outfield, but that Hahn is reluctant to make the kind of long term commitment, for which the players are asking. Perhaps he could have written it more clearly, but it didn't deserve to be characterized as; "didn't make any sense". It seems as though you may have just demonstrated his point, about being severely criticized when posting on this site. It is true that some of us are too quick to try to belittle other posters. It would be so nice to see fellow Sox fans being a bit more civil toward one another. We should note that the posters on this forum are still much more polite than most bloggers on the Internet. Some of the stuff you see is just hard to comprehend. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

[LDF]

Sorry, signing them to long term contracts like they are asking for is probably not the answer so Rick wants an out because we currently could use their services as they are an upgrade over our current options.

 

Posting on this site is really miserable. Every post is followed by a jerkoff comment. So much for adding something to a stale conversation.

 

i totally agree with the bold, it like no one can voice an opinion that is different that the majority.

 

i really hate to say this, but i am seeing the beginning of what ruined another white sox site.

 

now i wonder how many will jump on me.

[Lillian]

I'm probably older than almost everyone on this forum, so please understand that I have a perspective on this topic of civility, which is shaped by having lived most of my adult life, before the Internet. In those days, people would generally not speak to each other the way anonymous bloggers do. It's just a matter of being courteous.

When someone writes something, they don't necessarily expect everyone to agree with them. However, how hard is it to say something like; "You make a good point, however....." If what is written is not exactly clear, wouldn't it be better to simply ask for a clarification? What is so difficult about just asking someone to clarify their position? You almost never read a post that begins with something like this: "I'm a little unclear as to what you are asserting. Would you please clarify it?"

 

I've advocated for more civility in prior posts, and most of the members here do treat others respectfully. And again, the bloggers here are Saints, compared to some of the nasty people, who post on the Net. However, at this time of year, one would like to see more fellowship among Sox fans. So, that said, Happy Holidays, and Go Sox!!!!

[Dunt]

Why?

 

The White Sox, as currently constructed, still aren't a playoff team in my opinion. Frazier and Lawrie are nice upgrades, but catcher, shortstop, right field, and left field are all still potential holes, not to mention the lack of decent pitching depth.

 

I think they are competing for a wild card as currently constructed. If you add one of the outfielders, it's a definite playoff team.

[caulfield12]

I think they are competing for a wild card as currently constructed. If you add one of the outfielders, it's a definite playoff team.

 

That's all fine and good in the NL.

 

Everyone in the Central has a chance.

 

You have Houston, Texas, LAA and the Mariners have spent a lot in recent years...so the A's are the only team we can eliminate.

 

In the East, who doesn't have a shot at the playoffs? The Red Sox will be better, that's for sure. You have the Jays and Yankees. The Orioles have lots of money left to spend. So TB then?

 

Two teams we can eliminate...that's it. Thirteen teams could make the playoffs, not the greatest odds with our current team...just like at the end of July last year. Similar logjam.

Edited December 28, 2015 by caulfield12

[ptatc]

PTATC!

Definitely NOT a proctologist. However it's not healthy to suppress bodily functions, man.

[Dunt]

That's all fine and good in the NL.

 

Everyone in the Central has a chance.

 

You have Houston, Texas, LAA and the Mariners have spent a lot in recent years...so the A's are the only team we can eliminate.

 

In the East, who doesn't have a shot at the playoffs? The Red Sox will be better, that's for sure. You have the Jays and Yankees. The Orioles have lots of money left to spend. So TB then?

 

Two teams we can eliminate...that's it. Thirteen teams could make the playoffs, not the greatest odds with our current team...just like at the end of July last year. Similar logjam.

 

Sorry, what was your point again?

 

[OmarComing25]

That's all fine and good in the NL.

 

Everyone in the Central has a chance.

 

You have Houston, Texas, LAA and the Mariners have spent a lot in recent years...so the A's are the only team we can eliminate.

 

In the East, who doesn't have a shot at the playoffs? The Red Sox will be better, that's for sure. You have the Jays and Yankees. The Orioles have lots of money left to spend. So TB then?

 

Two teams we can eliminate...that's it. Thirteen teams could make the playoffs, not the greatest odds with our current team...just like at the end of July last year. Similar logjam.

I actually wouldn't write off any teams in the AL. Tampa Bay won 80 games despite being ravaged by injuries, and they have great pitching and defense. I also wouldn't be too surprised to see the A's compete. But to your point, should you only try to compete when you have a virtual guarantee at the playoffs? I don't think any AL team has a greater than 50% chance of making the playoffs, it's a league full of parity. But does that mean you should only try to compete when you have a flawless team? I'll be very disappointed if the Sox don't land one of the Big 3, but if we do I think we have as much a chance to make the playoffs or win the division as anyone in the ALC.

 

To your other point, yes Frazier, Lawrie and Melky are leaving after 2017, but nothing has changed about the future outlook on those positions since the offseason began, unless you believe Micah Johnson was going to be our starting 2B or Thompson a starting OF in 2018. Maybe we draft a college OF or 3B with our upcoming pick. Maybe Trey, May, or Engel are major-league ready by then. Maybe we resign Lawrie. A lot can happen in two years, I'll worry about that when the time comes.

Edited December 28, 2015 by OmarComing25

[LDF]

I think they are competing for a wild card as currently constructed. If you add one of the outfielders, it's a definite playoff team.

 

and as much as you make a great point, i really do not want that run away train of great expectations to happen, as it did last yr.

 

nice post.

[LDF]

That's all fine and good in the NL.

 

Everyone in the Central has a chance.

 

You have Houston, Texas, LAA and the Mariners have spent a lot in recent years...so the A's are the only team we can eliminate.

 

In the East, who doesn't have a shot at the playoffs? The Red Sox will be better, that's for sure. You have the Jays and Yankees. The Orioles have lots of money left to spend. So TB then?

 

Two teams we can eliminate...that's it. Thirteen teams could make the playoffs, not the greatest odds with our current team...just like at the end of July last year. Similar logjam.

 

and you bring up a good point. the other teams in the AL in which we haven't discussed.

 

but what makes the sox different, is the starting 3 sp's. those are our ACES.... and this team needs a supporting cast.

[caulfield12]

I actually wouldn't write off any teams in the AL. Tampa Bay won 80 games despite being ravaged by injuries, and they have great pitching and defense. I also wouldn't be too surprised to see the A's compete. But to your point, should you only try to compete when you have a virtual guarantee at the playoffs? I don't think any AL team has a greater than 50% chance of making the playoffs, it's a league full of parity. But does that mean you should only try to compete when you have a flawless team? I'll be very disappointed if the Sox don't land one of the Big 3, but if we do I think we have as much a chance to make the playoffs or win the division as anyone in the ALC.

 

To your other point, yes Frazier, Lawrie and Melky are leaving after 2017, but nothing has changed about the future outlook on those positions since the offseason began, unless you believe Micah Johnson was going to be our starting 2B or Thompson a starting OF in 2018. Maybe we draft a college OF or 3B with our upcoming pick. Maybe Trey, May, or Engel are major-league ready by then. Maybe we resign Lawrie. A lot can happen in two years, I'll worry about that when the time comes.

 

Would that be enough (the offseason so far) to get you to buy season tickets again if you'd cancelled after 2011, or at any point in the last three years?

 

I wonder how many Sox fans felt confident enough to buy a smaller/split 2016 package as a Christmas gift?

 

 

[LDF]

Would that be enough (the offseason so far) to get you to buy season tickets again if you'd cancelled after 2011, or at any point in the last three years?

 

I wonder how many Sox fans felt confident enough to buy a smaller/split 2016 package as a Christmas gift?

 

this is a great question. actually 2 question.

 

i believe the first on on season tickets, for me, i will depends on if the org continues to address the holes this team as.

 

the second one is to really look at how good this team is or has the potential. pretty much as a discussion i had with Balta on the nl-central with pitt.

 

but for me, i will need to see this to continue to make this team better.

 

but i really am looking at cle in our division.

[qmoe1020]

and as much as you make a great point, i really do not want that run away train of great expectations to happen, as it did last yr.

 

nice post.

 

I hope the thought process is for a Central title, as I feel it is our best shot at the playoffs. Early projections have only 1 team (Cle) above .500- a much easier path, IMO, than to be playing worse odds for a WC berth. I don't think any team "plays" for a WC berth- if you fall short of your respective division and happen to be in the thick of it-great. I'd rather try and outplay 4 teams that I play 19 times each than the rest of the league.

[Baron]

I think that I understood the post. I believe that he is trying to say the we could use a short term upgrade in the outfield, but that Hahn is reluctant to make the kind of long term commitment, for which the players are asking. Perhaps he could have written it more clearly, but it didn't deserve to be characterized as; "didn't make any sense". It seems as though you may have just demonstrated his point, about being severely criticized when posting on this site. It is true that some of us are too quick to try to belittle other posters. It would be so nice to see fellow Sox fans being a bit more civil toward one another. We should note that the posters on this forum are still much more polite than most bloggers on the Internet. Some of the stuff you see is just hard to comprehend. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

 

Oh good lord Lillian. This is the internet. If he cant take criticisim after he contradicts himself then for sure any message board is going to be an issue for him.Cristism is part of making yourself a better poster. If he cant take it then so be it.

 

This forum is extremely civil. Let not act like it isnt.

 

 

Edited December 28, 2015 by Baron

[LDF]

I hope the thought process is for a Central title, as I feel it is our best shot at the playoffs. Early projections have only 1 team (Cle) above .500- a much easier path, IMO, than to be playing worse odds for a WC berth. I don't think any team "plays" for a WC berth- if you fall short of your respective division and happen to be in the thick of it-great. I'd rather try and outplay 4 teams that I play 19 times each than the rest of the league.

 

if i may, here is the question, if the sox continue to find the pieces....... should they tell the sox community that they are all in???

 

or should they just continue to fix and see how next yr pans out....

 

i am for the later.

[LDF]

Oh good lord Lillian. This is the internet. If he cant take criticisim after he contradicts himself then for sure any message board is going to be an issue for him. Everyone on here is normally extremely nice/patience with each other. Cristism is part of making yourself a better poster. If he cant take it then so be it. He's going to have plenty of issues anywhere else.

 

you make a great point, but every one does not need to be in total agreement with each other. everyone has an opinion.

[Whisox05]

^I agree man, well said. We're for sure going for it. That's why we have Frazier and the catcher position looks super solid in theory. I'm all in too so I think they're trying to sign Gordon AND Cespedes w Melky at Dh. Avi & Laroche Sanchez on the bench.

 

Eaton

Gordon

Abreu

Frazier

Cespedes

Melky

Catcher

Lawrie

Saladino

 

Laroche, Sanchez, Shuck, Avi and the new catcher are great bench bats. Great for platooning tough relievers late in the game. I'd love that bench.

 

Too many bench pieces. Bench would be 4 players cause the Sox generally carry 12 man pitching staff. That leaves 13 for position players and with 9 including dh that only leaves 4 players for bench

Edited December 28, 2015 by WhiteSoxLifer

[BlackSox13]

I'm curious as to why you think this...

 

I think they are right on the verge of having that ability right now but a 2-4 WAR type player would get them there.

It's the unknowns that concern me and here's a short list.

 

1- Frazier's '15 second half collapse concerns me and moving to the AL and needing some time to adjust to new pitchers. His 19 errors last season are also a concern. These are the reasons I wasn't a big fan of the trade and in fact was against the idea before he was traded for. That said, I have accepted the fact he's the Sox 3B and will obviously be pulling for him.

 

2- the big three are all left Fielders. That means we see one of Melky or Avi in RF which is scary. I'm fine with Melky's bat but not feeling very confident in Avi's bat.

 

3- LaRoche. I think that speaks for itself.

 

4- Danks- not the worst #4 starter but would be better suited as a #5 in the rotation but even still we just don't know what to expect with him. One game he can come out and throw 7 shutout innings and the next get lit up for 7 runs in 3. Big question mark imo.

 

5- Erik Johnson- not sure what to expect from him. Last time he was given a shot he failed miserably and hopefully the mechanical changes he made last year translate to success in '16. He's pretty much an unknown gamble until we see what he can do. His BB is also a concern a well.

 

6- lack of starting pitching depth. If the Sox lose just one starter, they are in trouble and especially if it's one of Sale, Rodon or Q. Turner and Beck are the Sox depth and both had injuries in '15 so they will be trying to not only stay healthy but build their innings up in '16.

 

7- the '16 payroll limit. It's been assumed JR would raise it and yet nothing has been said by he FO so to get hopes up of signing a player that will add 20-25M to a payroll thats already at is limit is a foolish assumption. I'm not saying it won't happen, just that I'm not willing to assume it will.

 

These are merely concerns I have and I absolutely hope I'm wrong with these concerns. I'm just trying to be realistic about the current roster. If you don't mind I would like to point out some potential positives I see.

 

1- Frazier- if he plays well in '15 and forms a good bond with his teammates and FO. I think he could be a good extension candidate that could be the Sox 3B for the foreseeable future and should his skills slip at 3B he should makes fine 1B.

 

2- Lawrie- I love that trade and am extatic to have him and his inense energy. I see him as a potential extension candidate much like Frazier and would love to see it happen at some point.

 

3- Saladino- love his defense and I think he will hit surprisingly better than we might expect. I don't expect him to hit for a high average but I think he will get a pretty good amount of extra base hits due to his short quick swing and his speed. I'm excited to see what he can do a the SS position.

 

4- Abreu- need I say more?

 

5- Sale, Q, Rodon s the front three. Again, need I say more?

 

6- Sox back end of the bullpen. I expect many doors to be shut by Robertson and Jones.

 

IMHO, the Sox will undoubtedly be better in '16 but even with he addiionn of Upton or Cespedes or Gordon, I still don't think that's enough.