What if they dont sign one of the big OF FA?

[LDF]

Save their money for the 2018 UFA class which will be loaded with talent.

 

and it would be a sellers market. the cost for one of those fa's is going to be more than what it is now.

[LDF]

I tend to agree with this. A quick go through the results last year I saw they lost 42 games by 2 runs or less. Adding Crazier and Lawrie to the offensive blackholes that were 3B and 2B, plus moderately upgrading the catchers position is gonna go a long way into winning more of those close loses.

 

Throw in a full year of Rodon, and potentially half a season from Fulmer as well..

 

I would obviously love to see Cespedes/Upton/Gordon or even Parra, but I don't think the off-season would be a failure like some suggest if they don't.

 

you should also add the idea of the dh not being a black hole and offensive help from an improve outfield.

[BlackSox13]

this is excellent and very informative. well put together.

 

the main problem I see is this, the sox do not have the assets to make it work. but you really got a point.

Thanks man.

 

You're probably right. CarGo likely would cost more than what the Sox would be willing to give but with so many outfielders options available, I still have hope that some could be worked out. Colorado has too many left handed hitting outfielders and are said to be looking for a right handed bat. I'm wondering if Avi/Beck/Danish or Guerrero would be enough. I'm thinking Colorado would want one of Adams or Guerrero for sure but not sure if they would have interest in Beck or Avi, probably not.

 

I think Gardner is much more plausible of an idea.

 

Other ideas that I think we're mentioned in another thread are Marisnick or Tucker from Houston. Tucker would give the Sox the left handed bat with pop they seek while Marisnick would provide elite defense although his bat leaves something to be desired. At least Marisnick provides defense and speed unlike Avi.

 

I also wonder about Granderson's availability. The Mets owners apparently have alot of debt so they might be willing to trade Granderson.

 

That's about all I can come up with for now. Kemp has a nice bat but his defense fallen off pretty bad and should be looked at as a DH.

Edited December 25, 2015 by BlackSox13

[caulfield12]

Desmond Jennings would be a good buy low, shorter-term commitment guy. Only a 724 lifetime Ops but does everything pretty well except hit for power. More like Span. Coming off an injury-riddled season.

 

Let's hope not scraps or leftovers like Victorino or Travis Snider.

[LDF]

Thanks man.

 

You're probably right. CarGo likely would cost more than what the Sox would be willing to give but with so many outfielders options available, I still have hope that some could be worked out. Colorado has too many left handed hitting outfielders and are said to be looking for a right handed bat. I'm wondering if Avi/Beck/Danish or Guerrero would be enough. I'm thinking Colorado would want one of Adams or Guerrero for sure but not sure if they would have interest in Beck or Avi, probably not.

 

I think Gardner is much more plausible of an idea.

 

Other ideas that I think we're mentioned in another thread are Marisnick or Tucker from Houston. Tucker would give the Sox the left handed bat with pop they seek while Marisnick would provide elite defense although his bat leaves something to be desired. At least Marisnick provides defense and speed unlike Avi.

 

I also wonder about Granderson's availability. The Mets owners apparently have alot of debt so they might be willing to trade Granderson.

 

That's about all I can come up with for now. Kemp has a nice bat but his defense fallen off pretty bad and should be looked at as a DH.

 

ref mets, they are horrible trade partners, mainly b/c they want everything including the kitchen sink in their favor ....

 

hou i an intriguing possibility but i really don't know. preston tucker hit 243 in 300 ab's that avg really is putting me off. marisnick is just like tucker but with more K's and less hrs in more ab's.

 

ahh kemp, is still my option, and basically for the padres doing a salary dump.

 

again really nice ....

[BlackSox13]

ref mets, they are horrible trade partners, mainly b/c they want everything including the kitchen sink in their favor ....

 

hou i an intriguing possibility but i really don't know. preston tucker hit 243 in 300 ab's that avg really is putting me off. marisnick is just like tucker but with more K's and less hrs in more ab's.

 

ahh kemp, is still my option, and basically for the padres doing a salary dump.

 

again really nice ....

The Mets are in a real financial bind since the owners have so much debt so they aren't in a position to ask for the world for Granderson. I really think Granderson can be had for a reasonable price. Something like Avi and a cost controlled bullpen arm might be enough.

 

Tucker/Marisnick: they are gambled but they are also just 25/24 years old so there's still plenty of upside. They are also cheap and come with hears of control while fits for the core group Hahn is building. I would rather gamble on youth than a proven veteran that will regress with age at some point. That POV is why I would be willing to part with quality prospects for a guy like Inciarte.

 

Kemp: nice bat but horrible legs and glove on the field and was actually worse than Avi defensively in '15. No reason to trade for Kemp unless he becomes the DH or learns first base which means SD would have to take LaRoche in any deal for Kemp. I really like Kemp's bat and would like to have it in the middle of the Sox lineup, just not his defense on the field.

[LDF]

'BlackSox13' date='Dec 25, 2015

 

The Mets are in a real financial bind since the owners have so much debt so they aren't in a position to ask for the world for Granderson. I really think Granderson can be had for a reasonable price. Something like Avi and a cost controlled bullpen arm might be enough.

 

i knew that they were in trouble a couple of yrs ago, the old gm hinted at it esp with colon contract, what 2 yrs ago....but i do not think they will sell the farm for nothing, even thou avi is not a nobody, i think they will want a lion share of every trade..... but who is right and who is wrong, only time will tell on that.

 

Tucker/Marisnick: they are gambled but they are also just 25/24 years old so there's still plenty of upside. They are also cheap and come with hears of control while fits for the core group Hahn is building. I would rather gamble on youth than a proven veteran that will regress with age at some point. That POV is why I would be willing to part with quality prospects for a guy like Inciarte.

 

by that definition, isn't Avi should be considered the same way??? but i can't dispute your POV, i still like that you are looking, i just don't see it with Hou. maybe another

 

Kemp: nice bat but horrible legs and glove on the field and was actually worse than Avi defensively in '15. No reason to trade for Kemp unless he becomes the DH or learns first base which means SD would have to take LaRoche in any deal for Kemp. I really like Kemp's bat and would like to have it in the middle of the Sox lineup, just not his defense on the field.

oh i know, you are not saying nothing i didn't take into consideration. me and my crazy ideas, i still like him as a DH. he has a great glove for that position.

Edited December 25, 2015 by LDF

[BlackSox13]

'BlackSox13' date='Dec 25, 2015

 

The Mets are in a real financial bind since the owners have so much debt so they aren't in a position to ask for the world for Granderson. I really think Granderson can be had for a reasonable price. Something like Avi and a cost controlled bullpen arm might be enough.

 

i knew that they were in trouble a couple of yrs ago, the old gm hinted at it esp with colon contract, what 2 yrs ago....but i do not think they will sell the farm for nothing, even thou avi is not a nobody, i think they will want a lion share of every trade..... but who is right and who is wrong, only time will tell on that.

 

Tucker/Marisnick: they are gambled but they are also just 25/24 years old so there's still plenty of upside. They are also cheap and come with hears of control while fits for the core group Hahn is building. I would rather gamble on youth than a proven veteran that will regress with age at some point. That POV is why I would be willing to part with quality prospects for a guy like Inciarte.

 

by that definition, isn't Avi should be considered the same way??? but i can't dispute your POV, i still like that you are looking, i just don't see it with Hou. maybe another

 

Kemp: nice bat but horrible legs and glove on the field and was actually worse than Avi defensively in '15. No reason to trade for Kemp unless he becomes the DH or learns first base which means SD would have to take LaRoche in any deal for Kemp. I really like Kemp's bat and would like to have it in the middle of the Sox lineup, just not his defense on the field.

oh i know, you are not saying nothing i didn't take into consideration. me and my crazy ideas, i still like him as a DH. he has a great glove for that position.

Grandy: due to his age and salary, he isn't worth the world and if the Mets asked for the world they would find Grandy still playing RF for the Mets. Grandy is not the kind of player any team will over pay for with so many outfielder options on the current market.

 

Tucker/Marisnick: both are better defensively than Avi, especially Marisnick. Tucker has shown he can hit for power in the big leagues while Marisnick has shown elite defense with potential for more power, non of which Avi has yet to prove. At this point Avi does not possess the same talent potential as either of Marisnick/Tucker. That said, I admit the Sox are probably not a match for Tucker in a trade because I think Tucker has enough value to bring back a solid return for Houston but I think something could be worked out for Marisnick between the Sox and Astros.

[LDF]

Grandy: due to his age and salary, he isn't worth the world and if the Mets asked for the world they would find Grandy still playing RF for the Mets. Grandy is not the kind of player any team will over pay for with so many outfielder options on the current market.

 

Tucker/Marisnick: both are better defensively than Avi, especially Marisnick. Tucker has shown he can hit for power in the big leagues while Marisnick has shown elite defense with potential for more power, non of which Avi has yet to prove. At this point Avi does not possess the same talent potential as either of Marisnick/Tucker. That said, I admit the Sox are probably not a match for Tucker in a trade because I think Tucker has enough value to bring back a solid return for Houston but I think something could be worked out for Marisnick between the Sox and Astros.

 

again excellent thought process. i can't fault it.

[LDF]

 

i am wondering by what blacksox13 posted, if the sox do not get any of the elite fa of'ers, depending on the cost, who are good options, or should the sox explore a trade.

 

in ref to trade, does the sox have assets to do a trade, knowing that anderson and adams and fulmer and even corey zangari will be untouchable.

[BlackSox13]

i am wondering by what blacksox13 posted, if the sox do not get any of the elite fa of'ers, depending on the cost, who are good options, or should the sox explore a trade.

 

in ref to trade, does the sox have assets to do a trade, knowing that anderson and adams and fulmer and even corey zangari will be untouchable.

With the Sox trying to build a young core while attempting to contend. I would look at young players like Inciarte, Tucker and Marisnick. For the right player, I would be willing to trade anyone not named Anderson, Fulmer, Zangari, Zavala, but even then i would be willing to trade any of them but onky for the right bat. Trading from the depth of young pitching for young hitting makes sense for a team like the Sox. Many have said in the past that the Sox should keep drafting/developing pitching since they can be tradied for hitting later. Well, IMHO, its later and the time has come to balance out the team and farm with respect to pitching and hitting.

 

Trading young minor league pitchers for young minor league hitters is a solid idea too. Trades don't always have to be about immediately helping the parent club. Even trading different positional talent should be explored.

[LDF]

With the Sox trying to build a young core while attempting to contend. I would look at young players like Inciarte, Tucker and Marisnick. For the right player, I would be willing to trade anyone not named Anderson, Fulmer, Zangari, Zavala, but even then i would be willing to trade any of them but onky for the right bat. Trading from the depth of young pitching for young hitting makes sense for a team like the Sox. Many have said in the past that the Sox should keep drafting/developing pitching since they can be tradied for hitting later. Well, IMHO, its later and the time has come to balance out the team and farm with respect to pitching and hitting.

 

Trading young minor league pitchers for young minor league hitters is a solid idea too. Trades don't always have to be about immediately helping the parent club. Even trading different positional talent should be explored.

 

yes and i am one of the biggest proponent of that, trading the prospects on the farm for the right player. but on a side note, KW did that and believe in it.... what make us different than what he did???

 

for me, the difference is in the prospects. as much as anderson and fulmer is untouchable, adams and zangari is in that boat. i see great upside in adams and in azngari. i just don't know how or what i read about him. but he kinds of remind me of a great sox htter. i just leave it at that. adams i can see his potential as being on the same or a tiny bit better upside than rodon. but again this is me and maybe my wishful thinking.

 

adams ..... his bulldog mentality is what i like from the time before the draft.

[BlackSox13]

yes and i am one of the biggest proponent of that, trading the prospects on the farm for the right player. but on a side note, KW did that and believe in it.... what make us different than what he did???

 

for me, the difference is in the prospects. as much as anderson and fulmer is untouchable, adams and zangari is in that boat. i see great upside in adams and in azngari. i just don't know how or what i read about him. but he kinds of remind me of a great sox htter. i just leave it at that. adams i can see his potential as being on the same or a tiny bit better upside than rodon. but again this is me and maybe my wishful thinking.

 

adams ..... his bulldog mentality is what i like from the time before the draft.

Unless the right trade comes along, I'd prefer to keep Anderson to eventually take over at SS and Fulmer to eventually take over for Danks. As for Adams, I think he's one of the pitchers that could be dealt for hitting depth and with all do respect to you and Adams, I don't think Adams upside is even close to Rodon's, Rodon is a special/unique kind of talent. I'm also a pretty big fan of Guerrero but I would trade him in a heartbeat for the right youthful bat. As fans we have to accept that teams aren't going to give up quality hitting talent without getting quality pitching talent in return and especially if we insist on keeping a guy like Fulmer whom we are depending to replace Danks when he becomes a FA after the '16 season.

 

After Fulmer, the Sox best pitching assets are Adams and Guerrero and those are the kids teams will target as far as young pitching goes. Gotta give to get. One thing I've learned about baseball through the years is to never become attached to players, it alleviates the heartbreak if they are eventually traded to fill holes elsewhere.

 

I really hope the Sox can work out a trade or two without giving up any of Anderson/Fulmer/Zangari/Zavala, though I remain open minded if the trade fits what the Sox are seeking. Outside of them everyone else is fair game in a trade, IMHO.

[ShandyMan]

If Zangari is the difference between acquiring a Carlos Gonzalez or not, you make that trade 100/100.

 

As well as Zangari played, he's a young prep hitter who has a LONG way to go before he even sniffs the majors. In fact, the chances that he pans out are low, as with any high potential prep prospect.

[Lillian]

The comparison between a trade for Ethier and a free agent contract for Gordon, is an interesting one.

If they sign Gordon, they lose a draft pick. If they could trade a lesser Minor Leaguer for Ethier, and assume the whole contract, they probably have a more favorable situation. Ethier is only owed two more years, through age 35, of guaranteed big money ($17.5 million a year). The 3RD year has a buy out provision, which would cost $2.5 Million. There is a vesting option, which complicates it a little. He might fit better, batting between Abreu and Frazier, than would Gordon. Of course, there is the switch to the American League factor???

 

By contrast, signing Gordon to a 5 year deal, at that same annual salary, or more, would take him to age 37. Ethier hits right handed pitching better than Gordon, and while not good vs. LHP, could platoon, the few times the Sox face a lefty. Hey, there aren't many more of them in the League, since most of them are on our starting staff. Both of these guys will likely be at a point where they could use a day off, once in a while, at their age.

The other big plus is that Ethier is a right fielder, which the Sox need more than they need a player at Gordon's position. Although I don't know how good of a defensive right fielder he'd be, over the next two years, at ages 34 and 35.

 

Therefore, if it takes a 5 year contract at $18 million per year, or more to sign Gordon, and Ethier can be acquired without giving up a top prospect, I'd prefer a trade with the Dodgers.

If they can get Gordon on a 4 year deal, at that rate, and a trade for Ethier would require giving up a top prospect, or two, then I'd prefer Gordon.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Lillian

[BlackSox13]

Lillian, were most certainly on the same page. As long as Ethier does not cost top prospects, the prospects used to acquire Ethier could be replaced with the three picks in the first two rounds in June's draft.

 

I think I said this in a previous post but one hangup I see is that the Dodgers must be willing to take one of Avi/Melky or LaRoche(ya,right) in the trade. I actually like Melky's bat but one idea could be a trade based around Ethier for Melky. Ethier goes to RF and since the Sox seem like they are willing to give Avi more time to develop they could move him to LF where he shouldn't be as much of a defensive liability. Melky's switch hitting bat could be enticing to the Dodgers as well as Melky's lower salary.

 

As I've said before, I'm just not counting on the Sox signing a FA so I'm just exploring other potential opportunities since the market is flooded with outfielders.

[Lillian]

Lillian, were most certainly on the same page. As long as Ethier does not cost top prospects, the prospects used to acquire Ethier could be replaced with the three picks in the first two rounds in June's draft.

 

I think I said this in a previous post but one hangup I see is that the Dodgers must be willing to take one of Avi/Melky or LaRoche(ya,right) in the trade. I actually like Melky's bat but one idea could be a trade based around Ethier for Melky. Ethier goes to RF and since the Sox seem like they are willing to give Avi more time to develop they could move him to LF where he shouldn't be as much of a defensive liability. Melky's switch hitting bat could be enticing to the Dodgers as well as Melky's lower salary.

 

As I've said before, I'm just not counting on the Sox signing a FA so I'm just exploring other potential opportunities since the market is flooded with outfielders.

 

Do you think that the Dodgers would really want an outfielder, with a contract obligation, back in a trade? I doubt that they would take La Roche, and I hate to sell low on Avi. He has tremendous upside, and is young enough to justify exercising some patience with him. He also has an option to be able to go to AAA.

I'd rather just keep Melky, as I like his switch hitting bat, especially at DH. Under this scenario, in which they are only obligated to 2 expensive years of Ethier, there might still be money to acquire another left fielder. Any ideas?

I do think that Hahn will have to find another home for La Roche.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Lillian

[BlackSox13]

Do you think that the Dodgers would really want an outfielder, with a contract obligation, back in a trade? I doubt that they would take La Roche, and I hate to sell low on Avi. He has tremendous upside, and is young enough to justify exercising some patience with him. He also has an option to be able to go to AAA.

I'd rather just keep Melky, as I like his switch hitting bat, especially at DH. Under this scenario, in which they are only obligated to 2 expensive years of Ethier, there might still be money to acquire another left fielder. Any ideas?

I do think that Hahn will have to find another home for La Roche.

No, I doubt the Dodgers want another outfielder but the Sox really should move one to make space since LaRoche has no value and therefore not tradable. The best we can hope for is LaRoche becomes a useful bench bat/late inning defensive sub at 1B. Nobody is going to pay 13M for a power hitter with no power and batting average that hovers just above .200 and the Pirates have proven that nobody wants LaRoche even with the Sox offering more than half his salary. LaRoche isn't going anywhere. Sorry but that's just how it is.

 

I would prefer to keep Melky as well because as I said I do like his bat but he needs to DH. Thing about keeping Melky is by adding Ethier's salary to the payroll we can forget about any more costly FA signings or trading for players with a significant salary. We have to keep in mind that the Sox are already at last year's payroll so we can only assume they will add so much. If the Sox keep Melky and add Ethier's salary, the payroll would increase to somewhere around 137M.

 

As for Avi. His clueless approach at the plate is beyond frustrating. He still has upside but after last season I think his ceiling has come down quite a bit. If the SOX want to give Avi's bat more time then that's fine, he either needs to be the DH or in LF.

 

 

[OnlyGillis]

The Sox are signing one of the big names, so this thread isn't necessary.

 

At least I hope so lol.