2016 Hall of Fame

[Eminor3rd]

In general, I think that controversy and uncertainty makes sports/entertainment more interesting, because the whole point of it is to think and form opinions and takes stands, etc. It's just fuel for the fire. Like the MVP race every year, for example: everyone is calling for more objective standards, yet the MLB could not possibly be LESS incented to do that because the whole point of the award is to create interesting content in the offseason, and the more heatedly people argue, the more they are engaged.

 

However, all of this HOF/drug use stuff has had the opposite effect for me. First I bounced from one strong opinion to the other, then I turned bitter and felt sad and hoped it would pass, and now I just feel like the HOF is kind of a joke and I just stopped caring about it. It produce a mixture of indifference and slight negativity in my brain. Now, unfortunately, I can truly say that I almost don't care at all who gets in the HOF. It's a shame, but there it is.

[bmags]

I just don't think the Hall of Fame needs to be some cheerleader exhibit for MLB.

 

Why can't it just put it out there, tell the truth? Why should the museum, which is largely the smithsonian of baseball excellence, not just deal with reality?

 

I don't like this idea that we are supposed to largely act like the incredible (in the true sense of the word) baseball milestones taking place in the l90s/early 00s didn't exist. Put them in there, and lay down the reality that increase in steroid usage saw huge increases in offense and pitching never seen before.

 

Oh, no no, instead we should put our fingers in our ears and act like Bonds didn't exist. 98 never happened.

 

HOF is an exhibit of baseball greatness. That it aligns itself with hero worship and must be a victory lap where we must also applaud them as incredible human beings is dumb.

 

I'd like to start a baseball history museum that actually covers the history of the game, and let the HOF do it's walter payton award ceremony.

[LittleHurt05]

I just don't think the Hall of Fame needs to be some cheerleader exhibit for MLB.

 

Why can't it just put it out there, tell the truth? Why should the museum, which is largely the smithsonian of baseball excellence, not just deal with reality?

 

I don't like this idea that we are supposed to largely act like the incredible (in the true sense of the word) baseball milestones taking place in the l90s/early 00s didn't exist. Put them in there, and lay down the reality that increase in steroid usage saw huge increases in offense and pitching never seen before.

 

Oh, no no, instead we should put our fingers in our ears and act like Bonds didn't exist. 98 never happened.

 

HOF is an exhibit of baseball greatness. That it aligns itself with hero worship and must be a victory lap where we must also applaud them as incredible human beings is dumb.

 

I'd like to start a baseball history museum that actually covers the history of the game, and let the HOF do it's walter payton award ceremony.

 

Well said. I feel the same way about Pete Rose. Show him off in the Hall, this is the guy who got more hits than anyone else in MLB history. And he's also a lying asshole who couldn't stop betting on the sport. Both things are huge parts of baseball's history.

[Kyyle23]

I just don't think the Hall of Fame needs to be some cheerleader exhibit for MLB.

 

Why can't it just put it out there, tell the truth? Why should the museum, which is largely the smithsonian of baseball excellence, not just deal with reality?

 

I don't like this idea that we are supposed to largely act like the incredible (in the true sense of the word) baseball milestones taking place in the l90s/early 00s didn't exist. Put them in there, and lay down the reality that increase in steroid usage saw huge increases in offense and pitching never seen before.

 

Oh, no no, instead we should put our fingers in our ears and act like Bonds didn't exist. 98 never happened.

 

HOF is an exhibit of baseball greatness. That it aligns itself with hero worship and must be a victory lap where we must also applaud them as incredible human beings is dumb.

 

I'd like to start a baseball history museum that actually covers the history of the game, and let the HOF do it's walter payton award ceremony.

 

 

The Bmags Hall of The Super Awesome and Not Looked Down On

 

murray chass gets no votes

[bmags]

"The Unauthorized Hall of Fame of Major League Baseball: the accomplishments the Man didn't Want you to know about!"

[ptatc]

Well said. I feel the same way about Pete Rose. Show him off in the Hall, this is the guy who got more hits than anyone else in MLB history. And he's also a lying asshole who couldn't stop betting on the sport. Both things are huge parts of baseball's history.

The issue is do you think these players should have all of the monetary gains from getting into the HOF? Attaching HOF to the autographs and personal appearances is a real money maker.

 

Just my opinion but if you cheated, you don't get paid.

 

It's not like people don't know who Pete Rose is. He is probably more famous because of the constant scandal. However, I'm keeping him out of the place that honors the best players of the game.

[bmags]

Has Pete Rose failed to make money in the autograph market?

 

I think that is a very marginal consideration. Most of the people that care about autographs will soon die, right? Who are they? If there is some lucrative selfie market come find me.

[ptatc]

Has Pete Rose failed to make money in the autograph market?

 

I think that is a very marginal consideration. Most of the people that care about autographs will soon die, right? Who are they? If there is some lucrative selfie market come find me.

It's still a huge market including appearances. It kept him out of any broadcasting/MLB events for a long time. Even if it's not, anyway to keep them from benefiting from their playing/coaching career is fine by me.

 

They should not be placed in any position of excellence.

[southsider2k5]

I just don't think the Hall of Fame needs to be some cheerleader exhibit for MLB.

 

Why can't it just put it out there, tell the truth? Why should the museum, which is largely the smithsonian of baseball excellence, not just deal with reality?

 

I don't like this idea that we are supposed to largely act like the incredible (in the true sense of the word) baseball milestones taking place in the l90s/early 00s didn't exist. Put them in there, and lay down the reality that increase in steroid usage saw huge increases in offense and pitching never seen before.

 

Oh, no no, instead we should put our fingers in our ears and act like Bonds didn't exist. 98 never happened.

 

HOF is an exhibit of baseball greatness. That it aligns itself with hero worship and must be a victory lap where we must also applaud them as incredible human beings is dumb.

 

I'd like to start a baseball history museum that actually covers the history of the game, and let the HOF do it's walter payton award ceremony.

 

I don't see not admitting an individual to the Hall of Fame as being the same as pretending they don't exist. I think putting them together is a non sequitor.

[Big Hurtin]

What will be interesting is what happens with David Ortiz? Remember the New York Times named him (and Sammy Sosa) as having failed his 2003 drug test which did not 'count' at the time for punishment by MLB.

 

Mark

 

I will be filled with schadenfreude if he gets the Bonds / Clemens treatment, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[flavum]

156 public votes- just over 1/3 of the electorate.

 

Griffey - 100.0

Piazza - 86.5

Bagwell - 79.5

Raines - 78.2

 

On the ballot next year- Manny Ramirez, Ivan Rodriguez, Vladimir Guerrero

[ChiSox_Sonix]

156 public votes- just over 1/3 of the electorate.

 

Griffey - 100.0

Piazza - 86.5

Bagwell - 79.5

Raines - 78.2

 

On the ballot next year- Manny Ramirez, Ivan Rodriguez, Vladimir Guerrero

 

Interesting to see how the voters treat Manny and Pudge. They'd be shoe-ins if not for suspicions surrounding them. Vlad should be a first ballot guy IMO, but I could see it taking a year or two.

[lasttriptotulsa]

Interesting to see how the voters treat Manny and Pudge. They'd be shoe-ins if not for suspicions surrounding them. Vlad should be a first ballot guy IMO, but I could see it taking a year or two.

 

There is not just suspicion surrounding Manny. He was busted, twice. Zero chance he gets in the Hall of Fame. Vlad should be in but if I don't think he makes it first ballot. For whatever reason Pudge seems to be one of these guys, like Ortiz, that everybody knows used PEDs but for whatever reason just seem to ignore it. I think his case will be interesting though I don't think he gets in first ballot.

[lasttriptotulsa]

I don't see not admitting an individual to the Hall of Fame as being the same as pretending they don't exist. I think putting them together is a non sequitor.

 

Exactly. There is plenty of evidence to the existence and achievements of Bonds, McGwire, etc in the Hall of Fame. Being inducted is an honor. Once you decide to disgrace baseball's honor you are no longer worthy of being inducted. Nobody is pretending that these guys didn't exist.

[soxsoxsoxsox]

Griffey should be unanimous. Tho there's always someone who has to make a statement.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Griffey should be unanimous. Tho there's always someone who has to make a statement.

Of course he should, and if he is the first, it's a joke it took that long for someone not to have been unanimous previously.

 

As to the other stuff, enough of trying to make believe the HOF is filled with players that always played the game above board. There is no doubt in my mind every player techinically "cheated" one way or another at some point, at least in a way if you did it on a golf course you would be considered a rotten person. It's always been a game that didn't count against you what you got away with until steroids. Then, anytime anyone did anything spectacular, they must be cheating.

[bmags]

I don't see not admitting an individual to the Hall of Fame as being the same as pretending they don't exist. I think putting them together is a non sequitor.

 

I disagree, when you have to ask whether Bonds should get in the same breath as Trevor Hoffman.

[southsider2k5]

I disagree, when you have to ask whether Bonds should get in the same breath as Trevor Hoffman.

 

By excluding Bonds the person and player, you aren't excluding Bonds' achievements. You aren't pretending his doesn't exist. You are very clearly saying that Barry Bonds the player didn't merit inclusion into the HOF for whatever reason it was. Unless the HOF sets new standards, it has always been this way.

[flavum]

Bagwell and Raines are going to be close calls tomorrow night. I think they come close, but just short--especially Bagwell.

 

McGwire and Trammell are falling off the ballot (with Griffey and Piazza getting in), with IRod, Vlad, and Manny taking their places.

 

The cluster will continue.

 

There should be no limit on number of players they can vote for. If you believe somebody is a Hall of Famer, you should be able to vote for them. The 75% threshold is still going to prevent 9 guys getting in one year.

Edited January 5, 2016 by flavum

[Doc Edwards Shot]

I just don't think the Hall of Fame needs to be some cheerleader exhibit for MLB.

 

Why can't it just put it out there, tell the truth? Why should the museum, which is largely the smithsonian of baseball excellence, not just deal with reality?

 

I don't like this idea that we are supposed to largely act like the incredible (in the true sense of the word) baseball milestones taking place in the l90s/early 00s didn't exist. Put them in there, and lay down the reality that increase in steroid usage saw huge increases in offense and pitching never seen before.

 

Oh, no no, instead we should put our fingers in our ears and act like Bonds didn't exist. 98 never happened.

 

HOF is an exhibit of baseball greatness. That it aligns itself with hero worship and must be a victory lap where we must also applaud them as incredible human beings is dumb.

 

I'd like to start a baseball history museum that actually covers the history of the game, and let the HOF do it's walter payton award ceremony.

 

I totally agree. They should just have a baseball history museum that covers facts and historical events in the sport without the whole individual plaque concept and the idea that players had to be great citizens off the field to be mentioned. The visitors to the museum could decide for themselves whether a particular player was an asshole or not.

 

Just like if you go to a car museum. They'll have an exhibit showing small cars, then one with huge cars from certain eras with an explanation for why that was, etc. They could have a whole display about the 90s and Sosa/McGuire/Bonds and how steroids fueled incredible home run hitting feats.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Doc Edwards Shot

[Quin]

There is not just suspicion surrounding Manny. He was busted, twice. Zero chance he gets in the Hall of Fame. Vlad should be in but if I don't think he makes it first ballot. For whatever reason Pudge seems to be one of these guys, like Ortiz, that everybody knows used PEDs but for whatever reason just seem to ignore it. I think his case will be interesting though I don't think he gets in first ballot.

 

That's the thing. If Pudge and ESPECIALLY Ortiz get in, then there's zero reason to not include Bonds, Clemons and others.

[southsider2k5]

That's the thing. If Pudge and ESPECIALLY Ortiz get in, then there's zero reason to not include Bonds, Clemons and others.

 

Yeah, it will be BS if Ortiz gets in, and the others don't. I do want to see consistency.

[Quin]

Yeah, it will be BS if Ortiz gets in, and the others don't. I do want to see consistency.

 

And if I had to guess, Ortiz will cause he has a nice smile, won three with the Red Sox and broke their curse and starred in a commercial where he pleaded Wally to not go cry.

[Y2Jimmy0]

The Hall of Fame is an irrelevant joke.

[GreenSox]

Yeah, it will be BS if Ortiz gets in, and the others don't. I do want to see consistency.

PEDs or not, there's little justification for Ortiz in the Hall and E Martinez not, not to mention not being able to garner even 50%.