Official "Making a Murderer" Thread

[Jenksismyhero]

If you actually look at what happened there, you find that once again Kratz is full of s***. The judge didn't let in the evidence about her finding him "creepy" because the entirety of it was her making a joke to someone in her office about him answering the door in a towel and her saying "ew." She never said she was frightened or that she didn't want to go there. And as far as calling her that day, she was 30 minutes late to her appointment. Kratz was loaded up on prescription pain killers he was abusing the entire time and shouldn't have any credibility whatsoever.

 

On a somewhat related note, why is it legal for AD's to prosecute two different people for the same crime with completely different and even contradictory theories of how that crime happened?

 

Yep, that makes no sense to me either. I mean they can bring whatever charges they want, but why is a jury believing that nonsense? Again, you have this questionable confession that details how the alleged crime occurred, but there's no evidence backing up the kids story. How can you still believe the confession is true?

 

It also gets to the point that Katz tainted the entire jury pool with that bogus press conference detailing events that NEVER happened and that he had no proof of (other than a forced confession). We all know that the 1st narrative provided of any story ends up being the one that most people believe, regardless of whether it's true or not. So why is that kind of stuff tolerated? You're giving the public a reason to judge before a trial even starts.

 

And then that gets to the bigger picture that the documentary was exposing - media coverage on these cases. The first 1-1.5 hours is all about vindication and exoneration and how awful it is that we put innocent people behind bars. And holy s*** did those talking points get thrown out the window as soon as claims/suspicions came out about the murder. It was right back to "reporting" "facts" about "suspect" Avery.

[The Gooch]

If you actually look at what happened there, you find that once again Kratz is full of s***. The judge didn't let in the evidence about her finding him "creepy" because the entirety of it was her making a joke to someone in her office about him answering the door in a towel and her saying "ew." She never said she was frightened or that she didn't want to go there. And as far as calling her that day, she was 30 minutes late to her appointment. Kratz was loaded up on prescription pain killers he was abusing the entire time and shouldn't have any credibility whatsoever.

 

On a somewhat related note, why is it legal for AD's to prosecute two different people for the same crime with completely different and even contradictory theories of how that crime happened?

 

Kratz also made a point after the documentary of saying that he was specifically requesting her. What he didn't mention was that she was the only Auto Trader photographer in Manitowac County.

 

As for the separate trials, but I don't think the theories were that contradictory. Steven's trial didn't focus on Brendan's involvement, but were there other major differences?

[The Gooch]

Yep, that makes no sense to me either. I mean they can bring whatever charges they want, but why is a jury believing that nonsense? Again, you have this questionable confession that details how the alleged crime occurred, but there's no evidence backing up the kids story. How can you still believe the confession is true?

 

It also gets to the point that Katz tainted the entire jury pool with that bogus press conference detailing events that NEVER happened and that he had no proof of (other than a forced confession). We all know that the 1st narrative provided of any story ends up being the one that most people believe, regardless of whether it's true or not. So why is that kind of stuff tolerated? You're giving the public a reason to judge before a trial even starts.

 

He should have gotten an unbiased jury from outside of the county. Instead all he got was a bunch of rednecks that had been seeing coverage about how he murdered and raped her with his Brandon for God knows how long...

 

[StrangeSox]

Kratz also made a point after the documentary of saying that he was specifically requesting her. What he didn't mention was that she was the only Auto Trader photographer in Manitowac County.

 

As for the separate trials, but I don't think the theories were that contradictory. Steven's trial didn't focus on Brendan's involvement, but were there other major differences?

His closing statements in Steven's trial included (paraphrasing slightly) "only one man did this. one."

 

They also dropped the false imprisonment and sexual assault/rape charges from Steven's trial.

[The Gooch]

Also, why was the brother so dead set on their guilt? I totally understand wanting to get revenge and all, but wouldn't you want the to get that on the right person/people? He is so adamant that they are guilty and so close to the whole thing you would think he would at least ask questions about some of what was going on.

[DrunkBomber]

The Edward Edwards conspiracy theory tied to this is pretty interesting. Some pretty crazy coincidences.

[Kyyle23]

The Edward Edwards conspiracy theory tied to this is pretty interesting. Some pretty crazy coincidences.

 

If that really is him in episode 6 at the courthouse, that is messed up

[Jenksismyhero]

This is more or less the theory I have about what happened (from a random internet post I was emailed):

 

The police didn’t kill Theresa Halbach. Andrew Colborn located that RAV4 with the assistance of Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas who illegally trespassed onto the Avery Salvage Yard on the night of November 3rd 2005. Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas suspected something was up since the Avery Salvage Yard was the last place they knew Theresa visited on Oct.31st Halloween day. They went snooping on the property and found the car. They checked the car and found the key in the ignition and blood in the cargo area. Mike or Ryan removed the key from the ignition to ensure that no one could easily move the car off of the Avery property… freaked out about this huge discovery they call the Manitowoc Sheriffs Department. Andrew Colborn fielded the call that night and went out and met Ryan and Mike at the Salvage Yard so he could view the car for himself. Ryan and Mike show him the car and to be certain its Halbachs he “calls” in the plate number to dispatch. Colborn has to “call” in… instead of “radio” in… the plate number to Manitowoc dispatch because he wasn’t in his police cruiser at the moment, but rather on foot and in the “field’ on the Avery Salvage property. This mistake places Colborn at the scene and in contact with Halbachs RAV4… 2 days before it is officially located on November 5th, 2005, by Pam Sturm….

 

This is problematic for Colborn because all call and radio transmissions to dispatch are recorded and logged onto the Manitowoc Police server. Andrew Colborn is now operating outside of police protocol at a potential crime scene that he has no official directive to be at. He tells Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas to basically STFU about what they found and not mention to anyone that they were ever on the Avery Salvage property that night. Ryan or Mike turns the RAV4 key over to Andrew Colborn. Mike and Ryan are told to go home. Andrew Colborn then immediately calls Lt. James Lenk and briefs him about the discovery of the Halbach car and breaches of protocol he committed on the Avery property, also about Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach being there. Lt James Lenk realizing that Colborn’s calling in Halbachs plate is a serious mistake with potential consequences orders Andrew Colborn to remove the license plate from Halbach’s car and then report to him immediately.

 

What James Lenk and Andrew Colborn, or the others for that matter, don’t realize at this point and are completely unaware of is that Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych have kidnapped, raped, shot and then burned Theresa Halbach in the privacy of the gravel quarry off of Jambo Rd on Halloween evening. They choose to burn her body to dispose of their DNA evidence of the crimes. They hid Halbach’s car in the rear of Avery Salvage and wiped it clean of their prints. I believe it is Scott Tadych’s idea to secretly transport the cremains of Halbach from the gravel quarry and dispose them into Steven Avery’s burn pit. Scott Tadych transports Halbach’s cremains in secret by using one of Barb Jandas burn barrels from her yard. Scott Tadych fails to collect all of Halbach’s cremains from the original burn site in the gravel quarry, thus leaving some behind that FBI investigators later find… but he also fails in making certain all of Halbach’s cremains are out of Barb Jandas burn barrel after dumping them into Steven Avery’s burn pit. This is why investigators found small bits of Halbach in Barb Jandas burn barrel. Thus making a total of three sites where Halbach’s cremains are found. Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey are unaware that Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach have found Theresas car on the property and that Lenk and Colborn are now involved and in play with their scheme.

 

By shear colossal luck, two completely independent frame jobs targeting one man, Steven Avery were shaping up into the perfect storm. On one front, from Lenk and Colborn regarding the RAV4, ….and on the other unconnected front by Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey regarding the cremains of Theresa Halbach. One party wasn’t aware of the other’s involvements at any point during the days leading up to the official discovery of Halbach’s RAV4 at the Avery Salvage Yard hence why the investigation and murder trial made zero sense to anyone especially the Jury.

 

None of the evidence could be connected because it was all unrelated… everybody was guessing. But Buting and Strang had zeroed in on a part of it but couldn’t fully form a solid defense to prove it. The Jury couldn’t conceive that Manitowoc officers could have conspired to kill Theresa Halbach to frame Steven Avery as Ken Kratz insisted they had to if they wanted to follow the theory the defense presented of the frame up of Steven Avery by Manitowoc officials. And Ken Kratz was right… Imagine Scott Tadych’s confused and utter relief when Steve Avery’s blood was found in the Halbach car and the RAV4 key found in Steve Avery’s bedroom….. he must have been like…. WTF?! A quote from Scott Tadych after Steven Avery is convicted of Theresa Halbach’s murder…. “THIS IS THE GREATEST THING TO EVER HAPPEN” ….. We will see Scott, we will see…………………

[Harry Chappas]

I saw something somewhere about her key and how there were no other keys on the key chain and a photo of her with a lanyard withe a series of keys on it. I really felt that was odd and never brought up.

[chw42]

This is more or less the theory I have about what happened (from a random internet post I was emailed):

 

The funniest thing is that that theory (one of the best ones I've seen) came from a YouTube comments section.

[CanOfCorn]

In my gut, I believe Steven Avery is innocent of this crime. But, I also don't think it will ever be solved. I don't think anyone in Manitowoc County gives a rats behind about the Averys and as far as they are concerned, case closed. And it's a shame. There are just too many "ifs" to not go back and interview other members of the community. I mean, if Steven Avery did kill her, then he's already in prison, but Bobby, Chuck, Earl, Scott, shoot even her ex-boyfriend or roommate...none of those people were even thought about. Well, maybe they were as a formality, but not seriously.

 

I'm outraged by the system.

[DrunkBomber]

In my gut, I believe Steven Avery is innocent of this crime. But, I also don't think it will ever be solved. I don't think anyone in Manitowoc County gives a rats behind about the Averys and as far as they are concerned, case closed. And it's a shame. There are just too many "ifs" to not go back and interview other members of the community. I mean, if Steven Avery did kill her, then he's already in prison, but Bobby, Chuck, Earl, Scott, shoot even her ex-boyfriend or roommate...none of those people were even thought about. Well, maybe they were as a formality, but not seriously.

 

I'm outraged by the system.

He's at least got Kathleen Zellner from Chicago representing him now. From what Ive heard about her, she is exactly who you would want for a situation like this.

[The Gooch]

He's at least got Kathleen Zellner from Chicago representing him now. From what Ive heard about her, she is exactly who you would want for a situation like this.

 

I followed her on Twitter, she has some pretty interesting things to say

[Kyyle23]

I really was irritated during sentencing when the judge said that Averys crimes progressively got worse. The way he framed it, it seemed as if he was including that rape that he was exonerated from in the progression

[EvilJester99]

The thing that bothered me was with Brendan... you watch the taped confession and you can see he was coerced by the cops and even his own lawyers PI.. sickening that they could find him guilty. I don't think either of them committed this crime but time will tell if they get out.

Edited January 27, 2016 by EvilJester99

[hogan873]

I really was irritated during sentencing when the judge said that Averys crimes progressively got worse. The way he framed it, it seemed as if he was including that rape that he was exonerated from in the progression

That's how I viewed it, too. At least from what we were told through the show, most of his crimes were relatively minor until the supposed murder. It certainly sounded like the judge was including the rape.

[The Gooch]

That's how I viewed it, too. At least from what we were told through the show, most of his crimes were relatively minor until the supposed murder. It certainly sounded like the judge was including the rape.

 

Not surprising considering in Manitowac County it appears that accusations make you guilty, even if the evidence doesn't. Hell this judge was insinuating his guilt in a crime that he was scientifically proven not to have committed.

 

And maybe the police are just lazy there. I mean it was pretty clear in the rape case that they should have followed up with the known rapist that actually ended up doing it. And it is pretty clear they should have followed up more with others outside of Steven Avery in the murder, but instead they chose to plant evidence.

[Rowand44]

That's how I viewed it, too. At least from what we were told through the show, most of his crimes were relatively minor until the supposed murder. It certainly sounded like the judge was including the rape.

To be fair, covering a cat in oil and throwing it in a fire is pretty sick. But yes, I agree with you guys that it did sound like the judge was including the rape.

 

The more I continue to read on this I'm starting to convince myself that he indeed might be innocent. I still have no idea to be honest.

[Steve9347]

The thing that bothered me was with Brendan... you watch the taped confession and you can see he was coerced by the cops and even his own lawyers PI.. sickening that they could find him guilty. I don't think either of them committed this crime but time will tell if they get out.

I'm fairly sure we're well beyond spoilers in this thread...

[Rowand44]

I'm fairly sure we're well beyond spoilers in this thread...

This thread was actually made so we didn't have to spoiler tag anything.

[EvilJester99]

I didn't want to hear whining because it wasn't.

[Kyyle23]

To be fair, covering a cat in oil and throwing it in a fire is pretty sick. But yes, I agree with you guys that it did sound like the judge was including the rape.

 

The more I continue to read on this I'm starting to convince myself that he indeed might be innocent. I still have no idea to be honest.

 

absolutely it was. And the bar robbery was just straight up dumb. But if you think about it, there was no "progression". He burned the cat, robbed the bar, spent 18 years in jail for a rape he didnt commit, then supposedly murdered someone on the day he was due to get a county pay out. That is 20 years between crimes(if he actually murdered Halbach)

[CanOfCorn]

absolutely it was. And the bar robbery was just straight up dumb. But if you think about it, there was no "progression". He burned the cat, robbed the bar, spent 18 years in jail for a rape he didnt commit, then supposedly murdered someone on the day he was due to get a county pay out. That is 20 years between crimes(if he actually murdered Halbach)

 

I just don't understand why anyone who wrongfully spent 18 years in prison (or 12 if you take out the brandishing of a weapon, assault?), and about to be set for life to move the heck out of Manitowoc County, would commit this type of crime. Plus, I would think, although I don't know, that someone who has proclaimed innocence from day one would continue to fight and proclaim innocence like this. It just seems like Steven Avery isn't smart enough to keep up the ruse of innocence for this long without spilling the beans at some point to someone.

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Murder isn't a normal, rational act so I don't think trying to place that sort of perspective on it gets you anywhere.

 

Though I do agree with you that he's acting as an innocent person would throughout the whole show/case. The taped phone calls he had with Jodi mere hours before and after he supposedly killed Teresa is pretty persuasive to me. Unless he's a legit pyschopath (lack of any and all empathy), which doesn't appear to be the case, he is EXTREMELY calm and collected throughout those conversations.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Jenksismybitch

[hogan873]

I know we didn't get the whole story through the documentary, but unless they left out a lot of stuff, I don't think he did it. One thing that really blew my mind was that Avery was found not guilty of mutilating a corpse but Dassey was found guilty.