2016 Democratic Thread

[Jenksismyhero]

Where are the Republicans in Chicago who would "fix" the numerous issues layered on top of one another that have piled up on the black community over the course of multiple decades?

 

Seriously. They simply do not exist. There is no such thing. People seem to fail to understand this for some reason. Chicago is run by Democrats because Democrats live in Chicago. Additionally, municipal-level politics really have nothing to do with national parties.

 

Repubs don't run because it's a waste of time. They have no chance. That's the point. There is no alternative option. So you've got a city and county with a myriad of problems, all created by democrats, and the fixes are all promised by democrats but never happen. So why is not ok to question whether democratic policies are working/are the answer?

[lostfan]

Repubs don't run because it's a waste of time. They have no chance. That's the point. There is no alternative option. So you've got a city and county with a myriad of problems, all created by democrats, and the fixes are all promised by democrats but never happen. So why is not ok to question whether democratic policies are working/are the answer?

Republicans could try actually talking to black voters and finding out what they want and how they want it done instead of telling them what's good for them. Black voters tune Republicans out because 90% of the time they vacillate between talking down to them and being outright hostile.

[iamshack]

If anyone thins Clinton should have been kind or trrated Trump as an equal, that's absurd.

 

Half of his shtick is he seems visually powerful I'm these debates. Making him look weak and defensive is the right way to go.

It's not an issue of being kind to him or treating him as an equal, Q. It's more not reducing these debates to what he seems to reduce them to.

 

When you've got an opponent as unconventional as Trump, I guess I would just like to see her respond more thoroughly and accurately to Lester Holt's questions than to waste her time playing games with Donald.

 

 

[brett05]

I do a fair bit of construction work as well, and agree that there are a lot of really crappy contractors. BUT in one breath he says that his hotels are all the best in the world, and in the other breath, the contractors who built them did poor jobs and shouldn't be paid. It can't be both...

It can if you need to hire others to repair the trash that was done the first time around like we all do with our own places.

[iamshack]

Something that's not been getting a lot of play but really, really should was Trump saying that blowing up other nation's military boats over taunting wouldn't lead to a war. Multiple wars started literally that exact way (or at least that was the cause given on the surface).

Agreed.

 

That, and the 400 pounds comment show just how poor his judgment is.

[bmags]

It's not an issue of being kind to him or treating him as an equal, Q. It's more not reducing these debates to what he seems to reduce them to.

 

When you've got an opponent as unconventional as Trump, I guess I would just like to see her respond more thoroughly and accurately to Lester Holt's questions than to waste her time playing games with Donald.

 

I just disagree. I think if you actually saw this version of the debate the impression would be "Trump controlled terms of debate".

 

We actually did see this, it was the foreign policy forum, he was allowed to spout insanity, it went unchallenged, it was scored a win for trump. It needs to be pointed out that "we need to keep all options open" for nuclear is a crazy unprecedented and stupid thing to say. And if there is a better way to do that then laughing at it, I hope she finds it. But it's better than just saying nothing.

[lostfan]

Something that's not been getting a lot of play but really, really should was Trump saying that blowing up other nation's military boats over taunting wouldn't lead to a war. Multiple wars started literally that exact way (or at least that was the cause given on the surface).

Or in the case of the Gulf of Tonkin incident, a war started even though the incident DIDN'T happen and it was just claimed to have happened.

[RockRaines]

Lotta farm subsidies, for one. Those rural people also generally align with the Repubs social policies versus Dems.

 

I'm not saying they don't have agency. They obviously do. But as Trump correctly pointed out, every election cycle the Democrat for X race comes out and says they're going to fix schools, stop crime, create jobs - all directly for the benefit of black communities. And then once the election is over a lot of that talk goes away and none of those promises are delivered.

 

I think it's a fair question to ask, why can't the black community try another way? In Illinois and Chicago for example, it's basically been democratic policies controlling the county/city for the last however many decades. An alternative republican policy isn't even considered. Why not?

To be fair, many of those policies are run on as a platform and then blocked or voted down by checks and balances in the government.

 

For example: fixing CPS here. You have to raise taxes, reduce pay at the top levels and probably do something about the union. Who could EVER get those things done? Nobody regardless of party.

Edited September 27, 2016 by RockRaines

[RockRaines]

If you ask some Trump supporters...whenever minorities didn't have rights.

I'd like to hear from his campaign when it exactly was "great" so I can ask my parents or someone's grandparents how it really was. Is he talking about the 80's?

[iamshack]

I just disagree. I think if you actually saw this version of the debate the impression would be "Trump controlled terms of debate".

 

We actually did see this, it was the foreign policy forum, he was allowed to spout insanity, it went unchallenged, it was scored a win for trump. It needs to be pointed out that "we need to keep all options open" for nuclear is a crazy unprecedented and stupid thing to say. And if there is a better way to do that then laughing at it, I hope she finds it. But it's better than just saying nothing.

I don't think you are understanding what I am saying. Perhaps I am not articulating it well.

 

I am not arguing that she should not ever engage him...that is unavoidable. But she can do so by staying above him and avoiding the laughing and the big grin and then "WOW" reactions. That serves no purpose other than her own ego and comic relief for hardcore democrats like yourself who are already voting for her anyways.

 

There are actually reasonably intelligent voters who are considering Trump and that type of behavior does nothing but turn them off.

[bmags]

North America was apparently pretty hopping in the 1400s. Plenty of crops. Nice land management, little disease. Then immigration happened. Small pox. not good.

[whitesoxfan99]

And how many of those were one on one? That's right...Zero.

 

 

You are right. I did find a couple more that favored Hillary. 90+% of the polls favor Donald. Deny the truth all you wish my friend.

 

Link to these 90% of polls lol.

[whitesoxfan99]

I don't think you are understanding what I am saying. Perhaps I am not articulating it well.

 

I am not arguing that she should not ever engage him...that is unavoidable. But she can do so by staying above him and avoiding the laughing and the big grin and then "WOW" reactions. That serves no purpose other than her own ego and comic relief for hardcore democrats like yourself who are already voting for her anyways.

 

There are actually reasonably intelligent voters who are considering Trump and that type of behavior does nothing but turn them off.

 

Clearly that type of behavior doesn't turn them off if they are considering voting for Trump.

[chw42]

I'd like to hear from his campaign when it exactly was "great" so I can ask my parents or someone's grandparents how it really was. Is he talking about the 80's?

 

Maybe it's whenever Trump grew up/made his money.

[bmags]

I don't think you are understanding what I am saying. Perhaps I am not articulating it well.

 

I am not arguing that she should not ever engage him...that is unavoidable. But she can do so by staying above him and avoiding the laughing and the big grin and then "WOW" reactions. That serves no purpose other than her own ego and comic relief for hardcore democrats like yourself who are already voting for her anyways.

 

There are actually reasonably intelligent voters who are considering Trump and that type of behavior does nothing but turn them off.

 

Maybe, but I think you underrate that democrats needed to be energized. They just aren't right now. She needed to show fight. They love that s***. They all watched west wing and thought it was a great show.

[Chisoxfn]

Well, he did reply later that he "followed the laws of the nation," which, to me, is a better way to reply to the tax issue. I am quite certain that the Clinton's take advantage of tax law and tax loopholes to avoid paying excess taxes as well.

 

Trump is a businessman and many of his supporters admire him for those qualities and want him in the White House because of those qualities. The fact that he hires intelligent tax lawyers is so far down the list of reasons not to vote for him that it is a non-issue.

 

What is incredible to me is how the guy is not intelligent enough to just use Hillary's "establishment" label against her in a civil way (use Bernie's playbook) and then mix in some of his own thoughts and ideas with a bent on his business experience and his ability to "get things done." To me, that is a potential winning blueprint that either his team fails to see (which I highly doubt), or he simply is not disciplined enough to execute.

Look at how the Clinton's use their charities. They absolutely tax advantage of the tax code beyond what a normal american could possibly do. In fact, I'd argue that what they do is not appropriate (as they are in my opinion, in an ethically gray zone). That said, I'm sure some of Trump's positions are in similar zones.

[lostfan]

Link to these 90% of polls lol.

The Drudge poll has Trump at 90%. But that's Drudge. They look more or less like Saddam Hussein's poll numbers used to look like in Iraq.

[illinilaw08]

Repubs don't run because it's a waste of time. They have no chance. That's the point. There is no alternative option. So you've got a city and county with a myriad of problems, all created by democrats, and the fixes are all promised by democrats but never happen. So why is not ok to question whether democratic policies are working/are the answer?

 

Leaving aside Chicago and Illinois, the Republicans have controlled the federal government at various times over the last 30 years. Over and over again, their solutions for issues facing minority communities are: (1) lower taxes on the "job creators"; (2) fewer social safety nets; (3) not raising the minimum wage; and (4) charter schools or voucher programs. Furthermore, after SCOTUS shot down the VRA, Republican led legislatures rushed to pass through voter ID laws that make access to the polls more difficult and targeted at minority communities. Simply put, Democratic policies are better for minority communities than the Republican policies. And it's not particularly close.

[Jenksismyhero]

Republicans could try actually talking to black voters and finding out what they want and how they want it done instead of telling them what's good for them. Black voters tune Republicans out because 90% of the time they vacillate between talking down to them and being outright hostile.

 

This is obviously a problem Repubs have, and for good reason give a segment of the Repub constituency, but it's also the nature of the two positions. Dems want to directly provide things, Repubs want to fix the system so that government doesn't have to. Which sounds more appealing if you're in the poorer areas of Chicago?

[bmags]

Poverty - turns out to be a tough issue!

[Chisoxfn]

A multi-billionaire who claims that he is going to be good for the middle class who, at the same time, has a history of not paying contractors is absolutely relevant. If he's been spending his professional stiffing people who did work for him, then why should we think that will change once he's in office?

 

I do a fair bit of construction work as well, and agree that there are a lot of really crappy contractors. BUT in one breath he says that his hotels are all the best in the world, and in the other breath, the contractors who built them did poor jobs and shouldn't be paid. It can't be both...

I presume 98% of his contractors get paid, or some high percentage. IF people didn't do their job, they shouldn't be paid. You can have amazing hotels without always having the best contractors on various sub-projects, etc. That is life in business. Now there could be examples where he is being ridiculous, I don't know, but not enough facts were presented to make me care one way or another. The tax issue was played brilliantly by Hillary and he was a knuckle head...should have just said those are the laws of this country and I follow the laws.

[lostfan]

Republicans are casted as racists to the blacks to the point where they won't even hear out the candidates who are actually trying to make a difference to them. Democrats aren't doing anything for the inner city impoverished people but indoctrinating them into a welfare state. Welfare has gone up with Obama in office and race relations have gotten worse. The Democrats just brag about income support programs and affirmative action and most Republicans ignore them because they don't expect to pull them over anyways. The only noticeable politicians out there with any inkling of a plan to help the disenfranchised black youth in major cities are Cory Booker and Rand Paul. They put together a bipartisan plan based on the facts and still nothing happens because it wouldn't help the money being made off of the flawed "justice" system and prisons.

 

Along with that, the destruction of the family is a huge problem in America. The white demographic has had a huge increase in single parents households. As a whole, it's a result of America's ridiculous policies to imprison everyone and disproportionately imprison blacks specifically. Frankly, this shouldn't be a Republican or Democrat issue. It's a people issue. How about instead of locking everyone up and indoctrinating more people into the welfare state we do away with non-violent policing for profit? That drops the number of felons, improves employability of the disenfranchised and in turn, fights against single parent households.

 

EDIT: And in bible thumping states, get over it and allow abortions/sexual preventatives to be free.

They almost never try in in any significant way that's worth discussing. Like "Hey, Allen West is black, let's put him in charge of outreach." Most black people, and I mean most, like 80-90%, hate people like Allen West for reasons white conservatives seem incapable of comprehending. A little empathy goes a long way, but it's seriously lacking. Something like "we have concerns about the criminal justice system and urban policing" is met with "you're all violent anyway, the ones who get killed had it coming. And here is the black guy we found who agrees with us, so there." That really goes nowhere. And black voters DO criticize Democrats all the time but the conservatives aren't really listening - they don't actually care. They've made that clear numerous times.

[bmags]

I presume 98% of his contractors get paid, or some high percentage. IF people didn't do their job, they shouldn't be paid. You can have amazing hotels without always having the best contractors on various sub-projects, etc. That is life in business. Now there could be examples where he is being ridiculous, I don't know, but not enough facts were presented to make me care one way or another. The tax issue was played brilliantly by Hillary and he was a knuckle head...should have just said those are the laws of this country and I follow the laws.

 

I don't think you understand the long line of sour feelings for trump. He has had some amazing people work with him (the architect for trump tower in chicago is one of my absolute favorites), but the burned paths of banks, contractors and others can't be ignored. It's way worse than Bain capital.

 

In Chicago, he held a friends and family event for people to buy early some of the condos at trump tower prior to build. They provided capital upfront for the project (risk) for a discounted rate.

 

Then, when it became clear Trump could get capacity, he refused to honor the deal and forced them to pay the new market rate, after they had taken risk in him.

 

This is a s***ty way of dealing with people. These were people from the law firm he worked wwith and their families. It may be why at the convention he couldn't find anyone with any real anecdote of their friendship beside dana whatever from UFC.

 

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/201...-namesake-tower

[StrangeSox]

Or in the case of the Gulf of Tonkin incident, a war started even though the incident DIDN'T happen and it was just claimed to have happened.

REMEMBER THE MAINE!

 

 

[bmags]

They almost never try in in any significant way that's worth discussing. Like "Hey, Allen West is black, let's put him in charge of outreach." Most black people, and I mean most, like 80-90%, hate people like Allen West for reasons white conservatives seem incapable of comprehending. A little empathy goes a long way, but it's seriously lacking. Something like "we have concerns about the criminal justice system and urban policing" is met with "you're all violent anyway, the ones who get killed had it coming. And here is the black guy we found who agrees with us, so there." That really goes nowhere. And black voters DO criticize Democrats all the time but the conservatives aren't really listening - they don't actually care. They've made that clear numerous times.

 

Aren't you concerned that your opinion was actually just indoctrinated in you and you actually don't know what's good for you though?