greg775 Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 05:52 AM) You're actually making an argument against Ms. Clinton here, whether you realize it or not. How could a 70+ year old socialist/marxist/communist from a state almost nobody has ever been to make it such a horserace....dwarf her fundraising in number of total donations...with almost zero name recognition coming into 2015, and do so much damage when the race should have been over after the first 4-5 primaries and caucuses? The problem for her is that to this day, despite 24 years in the spotlight, many Americans are still unsure of exactly what she has accomplished (that she can legitimately take a large amount of credit for)...for example, if you were to poll the first ten random people on the el tmrw morning and ask them what are Hillary's three main accomplishments, how would they answer? And you act like it's Sanders' fault that he ran such a surprisingly effective campaign and got five out of every six young people...male and female....on his side. This from a balding old guy who slogs through speeches with a strong accent and could easily be a cast member of Seinfeld...we're not talking Mario Cuomo/Jesse Jacksonesque oratory with JFK Jr. looks here. Caulfield hits a home run with this post. He's not always on top of his game, but this one is an A-plus post. Thank u. QUOTE (kev211 @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 05:55 AM) Barrack Obama is a motherf***ing superstar. I've always said I like his style and his speeches. I like Michelle. But IMO Mr. Obama was another rotten president in a long line of them. Can't we get a great one? For once? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev211 Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 12:04 AM) Caulfield hits a home run with this post. He's not always on top of his game, but this one is an A-plus post. Thank u. I've always said I like his style and his speeches. I like Michelle. But IMO Mr. Obama was another rotten president in a long line of them. Can't we get a great one? For once? This country took Obama for granted. It's sad. Can't wait until it realizes that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (kev211 @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 05:08 AM) This country took Obama for granted. It's sad. Can't wait until it realizes that. I think he had a chance to be a great leader. For some reason he held back a bit. He certainly did nothing to embarrass the USA. I think the next president will likely embarrass America more than a few times. Unfortunately Trump would be the opposite of Barack Obama. He'll be in the faces of Americans and foreign leaders and it will be ugly. His ego is too huge for him to be an effective leader. In fact he has no chance to lead. Hillary? I dunno. She could prove me wrong and take charge and be a true leader since Bill is in her inner circle and she by now should know what makes a respected president. On the other hand, Hillary could absolutely get blocked at every turn and be a disaster. She has to do a lot to correct the perception she is a liar and elitist. I think Bernie coulda figured a way to be liked by all (or many). I think the socialist thing was blown outta proportion. In conclusion: Barack deserves a B- for his 8 years. Trump has a 1 out of 10 chance of being any good. Hillary has a 5 out of 10 chance of being any good. Bernie had a 7 out of 10 chance of being any good IMO. That's my take and I stand by it. Edited July 28, 2016 by greg775 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Obama was great. He could have done more without Congress hamstringing him. But that speech...amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Obama is one of the greatest orators of our time. He is a considerate, decent human and I will miss him when he's gone. People have absolutely taken him for granted. He should've dropped the f***ing mic tonight. He was excellent.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/28/politics/oba...tter/index.html How Obama made GOP jealous.... Hilarious twitter quotes, wondering how Obama became Reagan and sounded more like a Colin Powell Republican whereas their own candidate is a mix of Mussolini and Putin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Honestly, how far back do you have to go to get a President better than Obama? He beats out Clinton, both Bushes, Reagan, Carter, Ford and Nixon handidly. LBJ has the Civil Rights movement, but he has Vietnam. Dwight would be a good argument. Truman as well. Obviously FDR is often regarded as a Top 3 president, so it couldn't get past him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Reagan was president when our biggest existential threat went kaput (i mean technically on the way to kaput). In terms of consequential, it doesn't get much bigger than that since Truman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 10:47 AM) Reagan was president when our biggest existential threat went kaput (i mean technically on the way to kaput). In terms of consequential, it doesn't get much bigger than that since Truman. I just posted the consequential video to reinforce what Obama has done. For me, Reagan also put in place the economic framework that led to the Great Recession. Maybe he doesn't beat him handidly, but I think Obama even trumps Reagan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 I'm confident history will be favorable to Obama. When they look back and aren't feeling the sluggishness, but look globally at a world that economically played like the White Sox, the economic management of the US while also implementing a disruptive but important healthcare law is significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) You can't put Obama ahead of Reagan or Truman until the effects of his policies are clearer. Was Obama truly transformative...changing the entire spirit of the country after the 70's? Did he work effectively with the party? Did he have the opportunity, realistically, to do so? Clinton, it's probably a wash but ultimately the advantage goes to Obama due to the recovery from Great Recession and Monica Lewinsky derailing final term. FDR, no comparison. It would also be hard to pick Obama over JFK, but that's an argument that has two compelling sides for scholars. Edited July 28, 2016 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 I put everyone ahead of Reagan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 10:35 AM) I put everyone ahead of Reagan. Same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 11:00 AM) I'm confident history will be favorable to Obama. When they look back and aren't feeling the sluggishness, but look globally at a world that economically played like the White Sox, the economic management of the US while also implementing a disruptive but important healthcare law is significant. I'm stealing back into that classical education for this one. When the Constitution of the United States was first presented, Benjamin Franklin's remarks on it included the phrase "Thus I consent, Sir, to this Constitution because I expect no better, and because I am not sure, that it is not the best." Over the last 8 years I expect none could have done better, and I am not sure that the job done was not the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Hope this election helps demonstrate why term limits are ineffectual and anti democratic. Obama would be crushing trump right now if he were allowed to run, and a majority of the country would be happy about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 11:35 AM) I put everyone ahead of Reagan. This - well, anybody normally in the discussion. We've had some s***ty presidents (Franklin Pierce is on a tier of his own). Reagan bombed the economy. I think history will look at Obama extremely favorably. His historical ranking will be quite interesting to look at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Transformative is a weird description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hurtin Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Not sure how to embed this, but... https://twitter.com/midnight/status/758466588790050816 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Bill O'Reilly, slavery apologist https://mobile.twitter.com/politico/status/...122869880659969 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 01:19 PM) Bill O'Reilly, slavery apologist https://mobile.twitter.com/politico/status/...122869880659969 That's not at all what he was doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Talking about slaves being well fed and housed is garbage apologia. Former rnc chairman Michael Steele agrees. https://mobile.twitter.com/MichaelSteele/st...123690039050240 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Trump really doesn't want this Russia story line to go away. https://mobile.twitter.com/MareikeAden/stat...325768900476928 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Jul 27, 2016 -> 05:33 PM) To me, the biggest problem with this election is that there is a false equivalency being made that states Clinton and Trump are opposite sides of the same coin. That cannot be further from the truth. Whether you like the Clintons or not, Hillary Clinton has not called to stop all Muslims from immigrating to the US. Hillary Clinton has not called Mexicans "rapists" and "murderers." Hillary Clinton has not threatened to back out of NATO because other countries aren't pulling their weight. Hillary Clinton has not wished for the glory days when you could rough up protesters, or offered to pay the legal bills of a guy who punched a protester. Hillary Clinton has not invited a foreign country to hack her competitor and influence the election. In this forum, we have had people laugh off Trump's comments. He's joking! He's talking about an unlikely scenario! This election isn't a simple difference in political philosophies (though that exists - the idea of Trump appointing multiple Supreme Court justices is terrifying). This is about an election where the Republican nominee's temperament makes him singularly unqualified to hold the highest office in the country. This isn't Romney, McCain, either of the Bushes, Reagan, etc. where I disagree with their philosophy on governance or social issues. It's something more than that. Simply put, Donald Trump is a special kind of bad in Presidential politics in my lifetime. If you live in a swing state, please pay attention to the polls. A vote for anyone other than Hillary Clinton in those states is a vote for Trump. If this election doesn't shatter the false equivalency illusion, nothing ever will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 02:12 PM) Trump really doesn't want this Russia story line to go away. https://mobile.twitter.com/MareikeAden/stat...325768900476928 That was actually the same presser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 03:44 PM) Honestly, how far back do you have to go to get a President better than Obama? He beats out Clinton, both Bushes, Reagan, Carter, Ford and Nixon handidly. LBJ has the Civil Rights movement, but he has Vietnam. Dwight would be a good argument. Truman as well. Obviously FDR is often regarded as a Top 3 president, so it couldn't get past him. Arguing politics is fruitless, but do you guys know what you are saying? Not to be a party pooper but Obama's tenure has seen the ultimate destruction of the middle class (the era of the layoff, furlough, salary cut, total change in businesses' relationship with workers; who the hell is hiring???) as well as close to a new social revolution in terms of shootings, disturbances in cities, race relation problems escalating. Inability to get any government consensus. He's one helluva likeable guy and a great speaker but I think he's been a disaster in terms of President. As a person? Great person, great speaker, appears to be nicest guy ever and that's very important in life, but you guys IMO are drinking the Democratic koolaid so to speak. Economically? Are you and your friends better off now than you were 10 years ago? I think the Average Joe is living paycheck to paycheck and one bad business decision from being homeless. Why the Obama love? disclaimer: I have the right to my opinion on politics as much as any of you Obama supporters who probably want me banned over this post. Edited July 28, 2016 by greg775 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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