2016 Democratic Thread

[StrangeSox]

Kaine flip-flopping on the Hyde Amendment (now for it again) sucks

[StrangeSox]

There was a decent amount of Republican hand-wringing about Obama's comparatively soft criticism of NAFTA back in '08. I wonder how so many of them seem to have reconciled those concerns 8 years ago with Trump's full-blown protectionist trade policies.

[bmags]

I think the anti any concept of TPP is the stupidest and most shortsighted thing happening in left politics today

[bmags]

Kaine flip-flopping on the Hyde Amendment (now for it again) sucks

 

Let's hope Clinton doesn't die in office.

[StrangeSox]

Trump basically pining for his own Watergate:

 

Reid J. Epstein ✔ @reidepstein

Trump says he didn't have anything to do with DNC email hack. “I wish I had that power, man, that would be power," he said in Scranton.

3:38 PM - 27 Jul 2016

 

Guilliani advising Trump to "tag" Muslims on the watch list with electronic bracelets:

 

Matt Arco ✔ @MatthewArco

Giuliani advises Trump to tag all Muslims on watch list, @ClaudeBrodesser reports: http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/...nic_monito.html …

3:35 PM - 27 Jul 2016

 

Quintuples (?) down on NATO comments, apparently still doesn't understand that NATO commitments aren't about "paying" and whether Estonia meets the 2% mark for military spending is completely irrelevant

 

Sahil Kapur ✔ @sahilkapur

Trump defends his remarks re: NATO allies & Russia: "We're gonna end up in World War 3 protecting people. And these people can't pay."

3:49 PM - 27 Jul 2016

 

On what his response to continued Russian aggression (e.g. Crimea) would be:

"I'm not going to tell you what I'd do. Why would I tell you a thing like that? Wouldn't that be crazy to tell you what I’d do? You react at the time," Trump said. "Part of the problem with this country is they go and they say, ‘We’re going to do this, we're going to attack here, we’re going to send this many men.' No, no. You got to keep it a little bit secret."

 

"Secret Plan" looks an awful lot like "No Plan" to many people e.g. Nixon's secret plans to end the Vietnam War in '68 (turns out those plans involved sabotaging the Paris peace talks), plus "Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you *keep* it a *secret*! Why didn't you tell the world, EH?"

Edited July 29, 2016 by StrangeSox

[Y2HH]

I'd just like to point out that Bill O'Reilly is innocent and the smear merchants on this website should be ashamed of themselves.

[StrangeSox]

I think the anti any concept of TPP is the stupidest and most shortsighted thing happening in left politics today

 

It's pretty hard for me to find any realiable information on it really given all of the hyperbole surrounding it. But the left has been opposed to G7/G8, WTO, NAFTA etc for a long, long time.

[lostfan]

A lot of Americans are big fans of a messianic billionaire who inherited his wealth from his father, cultivates a facade as a playboy, has unresolvable psychological problems, and is obsessed with law and order and torture as a means to resolve the dystopian society around him.

 

Batman is really cool.

[CanOfCorn]

I'd just like to point out that Bill O'Reilly is innocent and the smear merchants on this website should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[lostfan]

Is there really a debate going on about the degrees of slavery?

 

Slavery is bad.

Someone on my Facebook post about this pointed out that Jews were murdered.

 

I mean... yeah... why that was posted on my status I have no idea though. I just ignored it.

[lostfan]

I am late to this argument but I feel like basically everyone on the right completely and maybe deliberately missed the point of Michelle Obama bringing up slavery. That wasn't a pessimistic statement at all, it was the polar opposite. She said "this house was built by slaves and now I, a descendant of African slaves, live in this house with my two black daughters, look at how far America has come in two centuries." That's a statement that has real, tangible emotional impact on black viewers, and it was bewildering to see people questioning or criticizing it afterwards (this should be common knowledge!).

[Y2HH]

I am late to this argument but I feel like basically everyone on the right completely and maybe deliberately missed the point of Michelle Obama bringing up slavery. That wasn't a pessimistic statement at all, it was the polar opposite. She said "this house was built by slaves and now I, a descendant of African slaves, live in this house with my two black daughters, look at how far America has come in two centuries." That's a statement that has real, tangible emotional impact on black viewers, and it was bewildering to see people questioning or criticizing it afterwards (this should be common knowledge!).

 

This is what I got out of it.

 

She was pointing out progress.

 

Again, this goes back to something I said earlier...people will see what they want to see, not necessarily what is. If you have some reason to hate Michelle Obama, odds are you're going to take this in a negative way...same goes for those with a positive view of her, anything she says they'll look for the silver lining to defend it.

[StrangeSox]

The state of Trump's state-level organization in PA, probably his most crucial state, as of yesterday:

 

I called the Trump Pennsylvania HQ (570-230-7262) listed on his official website (https://www.donaldjtrump.com/pennsylvania/) and was forwarded to a voicemail that hasn't been set up yet.

 

Follow-up: I also sent a message to the only e-mail listed on the official Trump PA website and received an automated reply. I think some of the counties are for Florida? I'm so confused.

 

quote:

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I trust this note finds you well.

 

In an effort to streamline communications/travel restrictions precluding me from being more prompt in my response to your note, please know that I will respond to your note as soon as possible.

 

For matters concerning various departments and proper triage, please contact my following teammates:

 

Media Inquiries? State Communications Director Chad Tucker ([email protected])

 

Miami-Dade County? Chairman Julio Martinez ([email protected])

 

Broward County? Chairwoman Dolly Rump ([email protected])

 

Palm Beach County? Chairwoman Sue Snowden ([email protected])

 

St. Lucie County? Chairman Howard Fein ([email protected])

 

Martin County? Chairwoman Beverly Hires ([email protected])

 

Monroe County? Chairman Danny Coll ([email protected])

 

If it is time sensitive and requires my attention, feel free to phone me at 2026838615.

 

Thank you for writing me, and let's Make America Great Again!

 

Best Regards, John Pughe

 

This is why I was asking about what effect GOTV has had on actual vs poll numbers in previous elections. If anything this year matters, this has to matter, right?

[bmags]

The state of Trump's state-level organization in PA, probably his most crucial state, as of yesterday:

 

 

 

 

 

This is why I was asking about what effect GOTV has had on actual vs poll numbers in previous elections. If anything this year matters, this has to matter, right?

 

In that article I sent, it appears to only matter by about 1%. Not insignificant, but not a game changer.

[StrangeSox]

In that article I sent, it appears to only matter by about 1%. Not insignificant, but not a game changer.

 

Sure, but that's in normal years. Orca might have sucked, but Romney still had a full-blown campaign running starting way back in the primaries. Here we are on July 29, and Trump still doesn't have any campaign whatsoever in Pennsylvania.

 

I guess I'm thinking of it as an MVP-level campaign (Obama) and a Replacement-Level campaign (Romney) versus an All-Star level campaign (Clinton) and a T-ball level campaign (Trump).

 

eta: the campaign's listed number for Iowa is also out of service, lol

Edited July 29, 2016 by StrangeSox

[lostfan]

Sure, but that's in normal years. Orca might have sucked, but Romney still had a full-blown campaign running starting way back in the primaries. Here we are on July 29, and Trump still doesn't have any campaign whatsoever in Pennsylvania.

 

I guess I'm thinking of it as an MVP-level campaign (Obama) and a Replacement-Level campaign (Romney) versus an All-Star level campaign (Clinton) and a T-ball level campaign (Trump).

Romney's campaign wasn't that bad. I'd say he was solid-starter level. It's just that Obama is better at campaigning than just about anybody in politics right now.

[StrangeSox]

Romney's campaign wasn't that bad. I'd say he was solid-starter level. It's just that Obama is better at campaigning than just about anybody in politics right now.

 

Their digital GOTV/organizing effort (Orca) was a massive beached whale, but the rest of the campaign was solidly and professionally run (except the delusion that they were going to win right up until it was very, very obvious how the vote counts were going). Solid-level starter, sure, the point there is "two people who clearly belong on the professional field with one being better versus one person who belongs on an MLB roster and one person who'd get cut from his no-score-keeping tball team.

[bmags]

Mitt Romney ran a Tea Party campaign when it turned out he probably could have ran as the centre-right governor he was and done a lot better. But he still probably would have lost.

[bmags]

Sure, but that's in normal years. Orca might have sucked, but Romney still had a full-blown campaign running starting way back in the primaries. Here we are on July 29, and Trump still doesn't have any campaign whatsoever in Pennsylvania.

 

I guess I'm thinking of it as an MVP-level campaign (Obama) and a Replacement-Level campaign (Romney) versus an All-Star level campaign (Clinton) and a T-ball level campaign (Trump).

 

eta: the campaign's listed number for Iowa is also out of service, lol

 

But that article was an aggregation of hundreds of studies some of which had the control of no GOTV effort. Especially in a national campaign when so many are aware its election day I'd put it's effect at very little.

[StrangeSox]

I did not and will not read your link

 

(going back to find it now)

[bmags]

To be honest I'm a little biased as I think some of the surge of money into politics is this idea of an expensive GOTV operation, and "how could you not have tried everything". I don't think they are necessary to democracy and would be first to go with publicly funded elections.

[greg775]

Greg, you nicely block trolls from this site thus fulfilling a vital roll. Your posts can unite liberals and conservatives, Cub fans and Sox fans. When you take an interest in a forum, reponses jump through the roof. You are not afraid to make the really incomprehensible, no basis in reality comment to keep the discussion moving. Four of you would make this unreadable, but you entertain. I just wish at some point you will drop the charade and post as yourself. I'm guessing you are really a very bright person because it would take someone really smart and clever to keep up this facade.

 

I also believe you really are a liberal because you set up so many paper tigers which in the end make Obama, Hillary, and the rest of the Dems look good.

 

I have tried to write this without any hint of sarcasm. It is my current assessment after reading so many of your posts.

I don't like discussing the slavery issue so I'll comment on this and Hillary instead. Slavery makes me sad and the thought of it makes me sad. At this time I'd rather forget that we actually were cruel enough to have slaves in this country. Disgraceful.

Anyhow Tex's post is crazy. Maybe there was a compliment in there somewhere; I'll take it. I don't know how I block trolls. I've said it before. I am fiercely loyal to former Sox who were good, like most members of the '05 team. I feel like most of my predictions have logic in them and many come true. It's no act. I don't like Hillary.

 

Newt is owned in that clip like you are owned in these threads. And does the same thing, ignores reality and keeps talking

But Newt is right. Most people feel America is not safe. You conveniently didn't comment on that surgeon moving his family out of America to his homeland cause he felt our country was too dangerous. That's powerful.

Hate to break it to the Hillary supporters, but I just read several reviews of her speech: cliche ridden and not good. CNN.com in fact said people left wanting several other of the speakers to be the candidate not Hillary.

[bmags]

Well America is not safe relative to other western countries or our neighbor to the north, it is safe comparable to America in 1990 or America in 1970.

[StrangeSox]

To be honest I'm a little biased as I think some of the surge of money into politics is this idea of an expensive GOTV operation, and "how could you not have tried everything". I don't think they are necessary to democracy and would be first to go with publicly funded elections.

 

Working with a very local campaign was infuriating for my mind. No polls, your GOTV is you and some other friends/family handing out flyers, zero indication the night of the election of who's going to win, just sitting there mashing F5 on the county election results page as the results start coming in. Then beer and chicken wings to celebrate!

 

eta: the counterpoint to this is that when I lived in Woodridge, the long-term mayor retired and there were four or five candidates up for election as his replacement. It's a non-partisan office, so no easy D/R heuristic for what their views might be, every campaign profile was meaningless (they had all been board of trustee members), and the campaign websites didn't ever talk about what they'd do. If even one campaign had approached me/come to my door and explained what the candidate was actually looking to do, they probably would have had my vote.

Edited July 29, 2016 by StrangeSox

[southsider2k5]

Mitt Romney ran a Tea Party campaign when it turned out he probably could have ran as the centre-right governor he was and done a lot better. But he still probably would have lost.

 

As sad as it is, I would have voted for Mitt in a heartbeat over the entire rest of the GOP field this time around. John McCain too for that matter.