2016 Democratic Thread

[bmags]

Also a nice story for today: https://www.wbez.org/shows/wbez-news/one-bl...m_source=Eloqua

 

Although a not so great ending.

Edited August 25, 2016 by bmags

[lostfan]

Also a nice story for today: https://www.wbez.org/shows/wbez-news/one-bl...m_source=Eloqua

 

Although a not so great ending.

speaking of activists in black communities: https://www.facebook.com/newerachicago/?fref=ts

[bmags]

I mean, the last 6 hours.

[StrangeSox]

I mean, the last 6 hours.

 

I don't know what I've missed between Clinton's speech and right now because of work, but holy moly that speech today

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHAlX9a_dfA

[bmags]

I don't know what I've missed between Clinton's speech and right now because of work, but holy moly that speech today

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHAlX9a_dfA

 

You missed no republican leaders criticizing the speech and now An oppo dump on Bannon showing he is a horrible person that beat his wife and would marry her unless their twins were "normal". When they found out they were he gave her a prenup.

[StrangeSox]

hahaha jesus christ

 

American Renaissance, a leading Alt-Right white nationalist (but I repeat myself) outlet, responded to Clinton's speech with this:

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by StrangeSox

[Steve9347]

I'm glad she's not holding back. Great speech. Repeat it everywhere and all the time.

[lostfan]

You missed no republican leaders criticizing the speech and now An oppo dump on Bannon showing he is a horrible person that beat his wife and would marry her unless their twins were "normal". When they found out they were he gave her a prenup.

Hillary gave them an out on this mess, Obama did too, and I think I figured out why.

 

Republican leaders have been dog-whistling to white nationalism for decades now (this didn't just happen out of nowhere, Trump is just the blacklight in a hotel room), and any of Trump's 16 challengers could've given the same speech, but chose not to. By doing this, Hillary is trying to cause permanent damage in the GOP coalition, where they'll have to completely re-form as something else.

[bmags]

Hillary gave them an out on this mess, Obama did too, and I think I figured out why.

 

Republican leaders have been dog-whistling to white nationalism for decades now (this didn't just happen out of nowhere, Trump is just the blacklight in a hotel room), and any of Trump's 16 challengers could've given the same speech, but chose not to. By doing this, Hillary is trying to cause permanent damage in the GOP coalition, where they'll have to completely re-form as something else.

 

They'll reform as something remarkably similar. As long as they don't "sound like trump" they won't be trump. They'll have the same outs they always had.

 

But maybe things will be different.

[StrangeSox]

The headlines on CNN yesterday and the way NPR started their story this morning were both "Trump, Clinton trade accusations of racism" so I'm not too hopeful.

 

Trump flailing around with Anderson Cooper when pressed on supporting his claim that Clinton is a bigot and finally landing on "I don't know, maybe she's lazy" was entertaining. Another solid confirmation of TNC's thesis that many on the right only see racism as a rhetorical or political tool and not something people are legitimately concerned about and impacted by.

[lostfan]

The headlines on CNN yesterday and the way NPR started their story this morning were both "Trump, Clinton trade accusations of racism" so I'm not too hopeful.

 

Trump flailing around with Anderson Cooper when pressed on supporting his claim that Clinton is a bigot and finally landing on "I don't know, maybe she's lazy" was entertaining. Another solid confirmation of TNC's thesis that many on the right only see racism as a rhetorical or political tool and not something people are legitimately concerned about and impacted by.

CNN has been completely lost since about a year after Obama got elected. They have no idea what they're doing.

[StrangeSox]

A perfect distillation of the false objectivity the media tries to carry sometimes

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/fvdlfvdl/status/...981488805089280

 

I am loving whoever is doing cnn's chyron (official name for the word scroll thing I guess) lately though

[bmags]

Meh, nobody watches cable news. If they stopped showing it at airports I'm sure we'd all forget it existed. They reflect their audience, the 14 people watching at any one time are roughly 800 years old and live in fear.

[lostfan]

This guy has a similar take to what I did about Clinton's intentions with that speech.

In Her Alt-Right Speech, Hillary Gave the GOP a Mafia Kiss

[southsider2k5]

This guy has a similar take to what I did about Clinton's intentions with that speech.

In Her Alt-Right Speech, Hillary Gave the GOP a Mafia Kiss

 

Ha, there is one clear theme here...

 

Twenty years ago, when Bob Dole accepted the Republican nomination, he pointed to the exits and told any racists in the party to get out.

 

The week after 9/11, George W. Bush went to a mosque and declared for everyone to hear that Muslims “love America just as much as I do.”

 

In 2008, John McCain told his own supporters they were wrong about the man he was trying to defeat. Senator McCain made sure they knew—Barack Obama is an American citizen and “a decent person.”

 

 

 

 

All three are people that the Democrats have painted as extreme right wingers. They have been saying the same thing for so long, that no one even notices when an actual right winger comes along. In fact they have been crying wolf for so long, they had to come up with a new label because the old one meant nothing anymore.

 

 

 

 

I mean I get her playing to the middle now, but I don't get pretending that it is authentic.

 

 

 

[lostfan]

Ha, there is one clear theme here...

 

 

 

 

 

 

All three are people that the Democrats have painted as extreme right wingers. They have been saying the same thing for so long, that no one even notices when an actual right winger comes along. In fact they have been crying wolf for so long, they had to come up with a new label because the old one meant nothing anymore.

 

 

 

 

I mean I get her playing to the middle now, but I don't get pretending that it is authentic.

I don't really think it's authentic, she is not that magnanimous, she's ruthless.

 

I'm not a "both sides do it" kind of person but in this case they really do. It's hilarious to me when I hear conservatives talk about how far left Obama is. When he ran he was the "most liberal senator in U.S. history" according to whatever that organization is that makes these sorts of things up for them to cite, but so was Kerry. Both of them are ordinary center-left Democrats, though. Even Sanders isn't that far left. There is no organized political left in this country basically.

[southsider2k5]

I don't really think it's authentic, she is not that magnanimous, she's ruthless.

 

I'm not a "both sides do it" kind of person but in this case they really do. It's hilarious to me when I hear conservatives talk about how far left Obama is. When he ran he was the "most liberal senator in U.S. history" according to whatever that organization is that makes these sorts of things up for them to cite, but so was Kerry. Both of them are ordinary center-left Democrats, though. Even Sanders isn't that far left. There is no organized political left in this country basically.

 

Of course. The strategy is to dehumanize your opponent. The first step is to think of an easy thing to label them with. It is politics 101.

[StrangeSox]

I saw something similar yesterday. It was a way for her to give moderate Republicans an "out" at the voting booth while also tying Trump and the worst elements of the reactionary right wing to all of the public republican figures who still endorse or support Trump, even if weakly. They can't back out now publicly without looking like they're siding with their mortal enemy Hilary Clinton. Obama set a similar trap back at the convention, but this time it's much more forceful after the last surreal month and now Bannon running the campaign.

[southsider2k5]

Of course. The strategy is to dehumanize your opponent. The first step is to think of an easy thing to label them with. It is politics 101.

 

And in that same vein, we really should quit pretending that the true right wing is a new thing as well. There have always been ultra-nationalists in politics. There are always been some pretty extreme religious views in politics. Their have also been some pretty disgusting racists to even hold office. I know Indiana had a Klan member for a governor in the 20's along with most legislators. Woodrow Wilson screened Birth of a Nation IN the White House.

 

None of these things are new.

[southsider2k5]

Unfortunately that's not really true. On any given night during this election cycle, over 7 million people a night are watching Fox News. That's a pretty big number.

 

I don't know for sure, but I bet the age divide is huge. The older generations probably make up almost all of that number. I feel like the younger generations have abandoned TV for social media as their news source primarily.

[illinilaw08]

And in that same vein, we really should quit pretending that the true right wing is a new thing as well. There have always been ultra-nationalists in politics. There are always been some pretty extreme religious views in politics. Their have also been some pretty disgusting racists to even hold office. I know Indiana had a Klan member for a governor in the 20's along with most legislators. Woodrow Wilson screened Birth of a Nation IN the White House.

 

None of these things are new.

 

All those examples predate the Civil Rights Act.

 

I don't think there's any question that the true right wing of the Republican Party has more influence on the Trump candidacy than they have had on any Presidential candidate in my lifetime. That growing level of influence in national politics is important and worth discussing.

[lostfan]

And in that same vein, we really should quit pretending that the true right wing is a new thing as well. There have always been ultra-nationalists in politics. There are always been some pretty extreme religious views in politics. Their have also been some pretty disgusting racists to even hold office. I know Indiana had a Klan member for a governor in the 20's along with most legislators. Woodrow Wilson screened Birth of a Nation IN the White House.

 

None of these things are new.

In modern politics, the GOP always needed those people's votes (it's not like the people who were throwing bricks at MLK ever went away, some of them are still alive), but obviously they weren't comfortable with it. Then here comes Trump blowing everything up. It was pretty telling that the rest of the Republican leadership hasn't said much of anything in response to that speech, like "how dare you call our candidate racist!" like they'd have done with someone like Romney. They just want this over.

[southsider2k5]

In modern politics, the GOP always needed those people's votes (it's not like the people who were throwing bricks at MLK ever went away, some of them are still alive), but obviously they weren't comfortable with it. Then here comes Trump blowing everything up. It was pretty telling that the rest of the Republican leadership hasn't said much of anything in response to that speech, like "how dare you call our candidate racist!" like they'd have done with someone like Romney. They just want this over.

 

This is election is kind of the opposite of Romney. The right wing pretty well abandoned him. They knew he wasn't one of them, and they just largely pretended he didn't exist, but they sure didn't actively go out to cut his throat either.

 

A great deal of the GOP has either gone silent to Trump, or flat out is public opposing him. I can't ever recall a major party candidate who has seen more of his own party ditch their Presidential candidate in public.

[lostfan]

This is election is kind of the opposite of Romney. The right wing pretty well abandoned him. They knew he wasn't one of them, and they just largely pretended he didn't exist, but they sure didn't actively go out to cut his throat either.

 

A great deal of the GOP has either gone silent to Trump, or flat out is public opposing him. I can't ever recall a major party candidate who has seen more of his own party ditch their Presidential candidate in public.

Reince Priebus said he thinks Trump will be tied or ahead by Labor Day, which sounded more like "if he hasn't gotten his s*** together by then, forget everything and just start cutting our losses"

[southsider2k5]

All those examples predate the Civil Rights Act.

 

I don't think there's any question that the true right wing of the Republican Party has more influence on the Trump candidacy than they have had on any Presidential candidate in my lifetime. That growing level of influence in national politics is important and worth discussing.

 

Eh. I think the national view of religion is what has really changed here. It used to be pretty assumed that someone's religious views were going to be largely what their political views were based on. I don't think it is a case of this being a step forward towards religion, I think is more of a case of a good portion of the country taking a step back away from religion so it just appears differently.

 

For example, it has been a pretty consistent theme to use the bible as a justification for the separation of the races. It is just today that more and more people have turned their backs on that sort of stupidity. It isn't that this sort of thinking is new, it is that it stands out more today than it used to because it was more commonly accepted. Things like divorce, kids out of wedlock, gay rights, etc all fall under that same umbrella. It stands out more today, but it isn't new. In fact I would argue it is precisely this revulsion towards those lines of thinking that I feel tells me more that people are moving away from those lines of thinking than to it. Otherwise people in large numbers still wouldn't be getting upset about it like they weren't 50, 100, 200 years ago.