2016 Democratic Thread

[iamshack]

This is nothing groundbreaking, but it has everything to do with the lesser of two evils.

 

If given the choice between someone I have a general dislike and distaste for, and someone who I genuinely fear causing WWIII, I'll choose the former every day and twice on Sunday.

 

That said, I can barely stomach the state of American politics these days and avoid them at all costs.

[StrangeSox]

You're always on one side of the aisle so I don't have high hopes for your objectivity.

 

Here's Hillary, always telling the truth.

 

 

I didn't claim that she's always told the truth. Just today I said her having a private server to avoid FOIA requests was crappy. That still doesn't make her the most corrupt politician in a generation or even the most corrupt person running for President right now.

[greg775]

No more corrupt than the average politician, probably less so given how many investigations she's been subjected to that have found no wrongdoing. Just look at the latest string of them: up to about a baker's dozen House committees investigating Benghazi that completely unsurprisingly have found nothing, more recently a bunch of reports about how Huma blew off some people asking for special access and how scandalous it was for Clinton to meet with a nobel peace prize/presidential/congressional medal winner.

 

Feel free to list specifics if you want, but since you already went to the Whitewater well, I don't have high hopes.

She is so corrupt it is beyond belief. I mean it's not often a sure fire bet to win is as corrupt as Hillary. It is simply unbelievable she is going to be our President with her lies and her foundation and her past.

[Quin]

She is so corrupt it is beyond belief. I mean it's not often a sure fire bet to win is as corrupt as Hillary. It is simply unbelievable she is going to be our President with her lies and her foundation and her past.

 

Greg, read a book on US politics. It's easy to believe, even if she were as corrupt as you claim.

[StrangeSox]

It'll be hard to ever top Nixon. The mam was insanely paranoid and used so many government functions and on top of that his own private goon squad to go after his enemies. Plus the whole illegal war in Cambodia and Laos thing.

 

What do you guys think about Trump bribing the Florida AG to drop an investigation into his scam Trump university? How does that rate on the corruption scale?

[Heads22]

This multi-page voter fraud argument has me considering killing myself. Anyone have any suggestions on how to go about doing it?

 

Have you considered White Sox baseball?

[DrunkBomber]

The thing that makes me scratch my head about the Clintons is honestly the fact that Bill Clinton was accused of rape and numerous other versions of sexual assault and so many democrats are simply ok with it. A few of the accusers even said Hillary attacked them and discredited them as she champions herself as a hero to women. If it were just one random accusation that would be one thing but clearly Bill Clinton had a problem assaulting women. Hell his sexual escapades have their own wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_...uct_allegations

Edited September 9, 2016 by DrunkBomber

[caulfield12]

Hillary might have lied or perjured herself, she might have been involved in some "unseemly" financial schemes like Whitewater, she profited in the commodities market (which is more insider trading/access to information ahead of the markets, unless you want to call Martha Stewart and Phil Mickelson corrupt as well)...

 

But using the word (more of an allegation) "corrupt" is an altogether different animal.

 

For whatever corruption she was involved in, it pales in comparison to the military industrial complex directly profiting off the Bush Doctrine for eight years...which was a war based on a lie (and no, Colin Powell isn't the one responsible for pushing that narrative, he got used and had the choice to resign for moral reasons or the choice to stay because he felt he could do more good if he stayed in the position).

 

In the end, everyone has their own idea about what constitutes corruption. Whatever Clinton has done, it pales in comparison to Richard Nixon, U.S. Grant, Harding, etc.

 

Breitbart naturally has John F. Kennedy as the 7th most corrupt because of his father's intervention in the 1960 election in Chicago and because of his affairs...so, to some, cheating on your spouse constitutes corruption, but then that pretty much wipes out every US President from today back through FDR with the exceptions of Carter, Obama and possibly GHW Bush.

 

 

 

 

[pettie4sox]

this brett05 guy is on a greg level of trolldom

[brett05]

Tell us why you doubt that the law was created to suppress black voters, given (a) the evidence of intent, (b) the fact that it would cause a strong disparate impact between races, (c ) the legislators inability to justify the claimed rationale for the law, and (d) the obvious political benefit they had to gain.

I am not saying it didn't. I am taking the middle ground. Not so sure what is so hard to understand about that.

[pettie4sox]

brett05 it's really difficult to have a proper discussion when your posts ooze of partisan bias. I mean you're fitting the stereotypical republican type to a tee! It sounds like you want to believe what you want to believe and that's your right of course.

 

So basically, it sounds like you want to lecture people. Am I off base here?

[Jenksismyhero]

 

Oh well that explains it.

 

*rolls eyes*

[Jenksismyhero]

She's had a long and fairly successful career in public office?

 

What are her top 5 achievements?

[Jenksismyhero]

This is nothing groundbreaking, but it has everything to do with the lesser of two evils.

 

If given the choice between someone I have a general dislike and distaste for, and someone who I genuinely fear causing WWIII, I'll choose the former every day and twice on Sunday.

 

That said, I can barely stomach the state of American politics these days and avoid them at all costs.

 

+1

[Jenksismyhero]

It'll be hard to ever top Nixon. The mam was insanely paranoid and used so many government functions and on top of that his own private goon squad to go after his enemies. Plus the whole illegal war in Cambodia and Laos thing.

 

What do you guys think about Trump bribing the Florida AG to drop an investigation into his scam Trump university? How does that rate on the corruption scale?

 

He gave money to a candidate who later decided against her state joining an ongoing legal case against him. Do you have direct evidence of corruption, or is it possible she didn't think Florida had standing to join (I'm asking seriously, I don't know the specifics about why she decided not to join)?

 

That sounds an awful like the "read between the lines" deals that the Clinton's have often been accused of but you think didn't happen because there's no direct evidence.

[Chisoxfn]

That's not the scandal I was referring to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitewater_controversy

 

Colin Powell sure did his best to take us to Iraq and lied about the pretenses that eventually got the US in the war.

 

HRC has supported just above every conflict that has came up when she held office.

 

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/27/hillar...bya-iraq-syria/

I had long forgotten about whitewater.

[bmags]

What are her top 5 achievements?

 

Probably depends on your politics but for me it's

 

1) Her role in SCHIP

2) Iran Sanctions

3) Rolling up 9/11 work (face for federal funding for NYC after 9/11, work to study effects on first responders and secure funding)

4) Increasing veterans benefits after beginning of Iraq War

5) Bills to increase broadband access across USA

 

Probably for some the Hamas/Israel ceasefire.

 

Should be noted she was a senator in the minority her entire senate career. Stuff you may not consider accomplishments, like fighting against the bush budget bills of 01/03, Voted against federal marriage amendment after her husbands presidenciy's record on gay marriage rights, and I think the lily ledbetter act was created or sponsored by Clinton after that ruling by the totally LIBERAL supreme court of the united states.

 

edit: quoted wrong post.

Edited September 9, 2016 by bmags

[CrimsonWeltall]

He gave money to a candidate who later decided against her state joining an ongoing legal case against him. Do you have direct evidence of corruption, or is it possible she didn't think Florida had standing to join (I'm asking seriously, I don't know the specifics about why she decided not to join)?

 

Looks like a obvious quid pro quo to me.

 

- You're being investigated.

- Here's some money.

- Investigation dropped.

 

Unlike, say, the Bob McDonnell stuff, an official act did occur here which directly benefited Trump. Moreover, the money was also donated illegally through a charity, which itself illegally hid the donation. He did the same thing with the Texas attorney general (now governor), and has bragged about how he can get politicians to do whatever he wants when he donates to them.

 

Outside of a document popping up where one of them directly admits to corruption, I'm not sure how much more evidence there could be.

[bmags]

He gave money to a candidate who later decided against her state joining an ongoing legal case against him. Do you have direct evidence of corruption, or is it possible she didn't think Florida had standing to join (I'm asking seriously, I don't know the specifics about why she decided not to join)?

 

That sounds an awful like the "read between the lines" deals that the Clinton's have often been accused of but you think didn't happen because there's no direct evidence.

 

I don't disagree with you and I think in general the consensus is this is very bad for Bondi because she had a lot of constituents who were harmed (moreso than NY I believe). She claims they never even investigated, which is crazy! This is her job.

 

But, I have to say, the sudden donations from ivanka and her husband, then Trump, there's a lot more fire here than "Bill clinton's aide asks for diplomatic passports that were not issued so they could take trip to north korea to rescue two american hostages, which raises "questions" and "shadows" about access"

[lostfan]

Ray Lewis has an awful lot to say about activism when it makes national news (almost always negative or scolding) but he really contributes nothing to those movements. But he gets a platform because he's Ray Lewis, and he loves the sound of his own voice.

 

I won't say he does nothing for Baltimore (he buys school supplies, helps single mothers, things like that which aren't publicized) but politically? he's a ghost.

[bmags]

When ESPN had Ray Lewis talk be a part of the segment on ray rice I was just done with paying attention to anything.

[Jenksismyhero]

I don't disagree with you and I think in general the consensus is this is very bad for Bondi because she had a lot of constituents who were harmed (moreso than NY I believe). She claims they never even investigated, which is crazy! This is her job.

 

But, I have to say, the sudden donations from ivanka and her husband, then Trump, there's a lot more fire here than "Bill clinton's aide asks for diplomatic passports that were not issued so they could take trip to north korea to rescue two american hostages, which raises "questions" and "shadows" about access"

 

 

Fine, it looks bad sure, but how is it different than reading between the lines of Whitewater, where everyone but the Clintons were indicted and convicted and one of the key players who refused to talk and was sentenced got pardoned by Bill?

 

In the end, it's rich people in authority positions taking advantage, skirting the legal and ethical rules. Both are examples of shady behavior that borders on corruption.

[greg775]

Obama needs to threaten North Korea and now! Tell them we feel their nuke exercises are a very big threat and either prove they've dismantled their nukes or we're coming over to do it for them. The N. Korean leader has nothing to lose. He wants to be remembered forever and my guess is if he can figure a way to lob a nuke at the USA he's going to do it.

Act now, Obama.

[Quin]

Jesus f***ing Christ, Greg.

[bmags]

Fine, it looks bad sure, but how is it different than reading between the lines of Whitewater, where everyone but the Clintons were indicted and convicted and one of the key players who refused to talk and was sentenced got pardoned by Bill?

 

In the end, it's rich people in authority positions taking advantage, skirting the legal and ethical rules. Both are examples of shady behavior that borders on corruption.

 

Yeah, again, I think it's a Bondi scandal. I would be furious with L. Madigan if she did not even appear to investigate whether illinois would join suit if constituents reached out about it.

 

Bondi appears not to have seriously entertained the suit, or even investigated. Hard to trust judgment Florida should not have been plaintiff without due diligence.

 

But yes, this is just "why can't you cover them both with equal skepticism" whining on media, fully admit that.