2016 Democratic Thread

[Soxbadger]

My take away was she had him on the ropes a few times, but didn't finish. She won, but it was far from a knockout, and for this not to be close in November, she is going to need a knockout at some point. I think she could get in during the next two debates if he gets rattled, but she needs to get more aggressive and more prepared. He'll crumble if she pushes him hard enough.

 

I dont think hes going to crumble. He will just do what he did today, repeat, repeat, repeat. I mean Hillary has been fighting ISIS for 38 years, why not let him take a shot at it. No matter what gets said, he always can rely on "Ive never done anything in politics so I can blame everyone else."

 

Another opening Hillary missed is when he said something about $700mil of revenue. The easy opening is "How can you make all that money and tell everyone how terrible the US is." USA has been pretty good to Trump.

[Soxbadger]

The crumbling is when he feels like he is losing, and he starts going after Bill and the Lewinsky stuff, just starts getting really personal. His base will eat it up, but he'll get destroyed across the board by the press. I think it could happen. It almost did tonight (which Rudy confirmed).

 

I just dont see how Donald can open that up with his past history. Or is it going to be "Better to do the cheating than to be cheated on."

Edited September 27, 2016 by Soxbadger

[Quin]

It would be a big mistake, but according to reports, he was going to do it at the end but didn't feel right about it with Chelsea in the front row.

 

"I was going to say something very mean, but I didn't"

[greg775]

I thought America lost tonight. Embarassing on both sides. Yes, I'm a republican but I think we have the two greatest scum possible running for the highest ranking position in our government. Hillary came off as rude and condescending herself (not that Trump isn't rude too). At least she says more about building our economy then Trump, with a focus on creating jobs vs. Trump 100% focused on stopping jobs from leaving (vs. doing anything around real actual growth...certain jobs can leave, as long as better, higher paying jobs (in greater fold) can replace them.

 

Common sense we should attack things from multiple angles and I don't disagree with Trump on certain points as it relates to our trade deals, I just can't deal with his total absolutes as it relates to everything because it means I have zero idea what he actually plans on doing. I also don't actually think Donald is a racist, although he has certainly played up that card in certain instances, I don't think for one second he is a racist (just my personal belief).

 

Either way I won't vote for either of these clowns. Romney will probably get my 3rd straight vote (twice written in...cause why change my trend now, haha).

You are a very very smart man.

But hey as far as the winner? Just ask Chris Matthews. It was HILLARY. She mauled Trump. Election ... OVA.

[Steve9347]

You are a very very smart man.

But hey as far as the winner? Just ask Chris Matthews. It was HILLARY. She mauled Trump. Election ... OVA.

Why is someone who dislikes Hillary watching he MSNBC post game?

[caulfield12]

Why is someone who dislikes Hillary watching he MSNBC post game?

 

Gleaning evidence of media bias...

[Middle Buffalo]

You are a very very smart man.

But hey as far as the winner? Just ask Chris Matthews. It was HILLARY. She mauled Trump. Election ... OVA.

What is your opinion Greg? Who do you think did a better job in this debate? There's really only 3 options: 1) Trump won; 2) Hillary won; 3) they tied.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

What is your opinion Greg? Who do you think did a better job in this debate? There's really only 3 options: 1) Trump won; 2) Hillary won; 3) they tied.

 

4) The Mainstream Media made Hillary win

[StrangeSox]

I will admit to being wrong in my prediction of how the media would respond to the first debate, but I also didn't expect that poor of a performance.

[brett05]

Hillary wins the debate. But even Donald would have said that given that she's done this what, 17 times and this was Donald's first.

 

That said, every poll that wasn't done by CNN has Donald winning it. And really all Donald wanted to do was not implode and look presidential. He did that with the first debate. And a poll that just came out shows for the first time that Mr. Trump is winning the electoral college now as well.

 

Donald left so many doors wide open and could have really hurt the Clinton campaign but didn't. Was it reserve or more than likely lack of experience? Good question.

 

That said, Donald wasn't going after Hillary supporters. Not after indies really. He went after the Republicans that were sitting on the sidelines. And he corralled some of those in tonight.

 

Lester Holt was partisan tonight. He went really easy on Hillary and really attacked Donald at times. He also ignored several key areas like immigration being one of them when speaking of security.

 

Hillary needs to convince the American people that the last 30 years was not wasted as Trump drove home over and over again.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

After Lester Holt asked Trump about what made him change his Birther stance a second time and he still didn't even come into the vicinity of answering, I would have like to see Holt just keep asking the same question over and over and over again. Not that either of them gave entirely direct answers on other stuff either, but most answers were at least in the zip code of the topic.

 

Anyway, this...

 

My take away was she had him on the ropes a few times, but didn't finish. She won, but it was far from a knockout, and for this not to be close in November, she is going to need a knockout at some point. I think she could get in during the next two debates if he gets rattled, but she needs to get more aggressive and more prepared. He'll crumble if she pushes him hard enough.

 

... is my take as well. There were a few moments when she could have hit the jugular, but she didn't. She did what she needed to do, it will play, but nothing special really happened. We saw what both of them already are and have been all along, just in the same room at the same time for the first time.

 

[StrangeSox]

Hillary wins the debate. But even Donald would have said that given that she's done this what, 17 times and this was Donald's first.

 

There were over a dozen debates in the Republican primary.

 

That said, every poll that wasn't done by CNN has Donald winning it.

 

wrong.

[StrangeSox]

After Lester Holt asked Trump about what made him change his Birther stance a second time and he still didn't even come into the vicinity of answering, I would have like to see Holt just keep asking the same question over and over and over again. Not that either of them gave entirely direct answers on other stuff either, but most answers were at least in the zip code of the topic.

 

Anyway, this...

 

 

 

... is my take as well. There were a few moments when she could have hit the jugular, but she didn't. She did what she needed to do, it will play, but nothing special really happened. We saw what both of them already are and have been all along, just in the same room at the same time for the first time.

 

I'm surprised she didn't manage to hit him on the "I took advantage of the laws as they are" line in response to her bringing up him stiffing small business owners/working class people for decades. "You took advantage of the little guy for your own gain" popped into my head immediately, but she never really went after that.

[lostfan]

Trump was trying to follow a general script - he didn't really do much preparation and that was obvious - and got Clinton a couple of times (she really doesn't have an answer for why she reversed her position on the TPP), but she started talking (factual) s*** after a couple of rounds and she IMMEDIATELY got in Trump's head. He never actually denied that he didn't pay taxes or that he shafted all those Atlantic City contractors, and if anything, he bragged about it. He got visibly angry and started melting down. He started interrupting her and talking over her, audibly sighing (one time he did this after she said he was painting an overly negative picture of black communities), grunting, etc. His answer to the first use policy question was gibberish, he clearly had no clue what that was. After about 20 minutes into the debate, Clinton was in Trump's head and everything he did or said was at her will. I think he's dumb enough to fall for this at the next debate too.

[lostfan]

I'm surprised she didn't manage to hit him on the "I took advantage of the laws as they are" line in response to her bringing up him stiffing small business owners/working class people for decades. "You took advantage of the little guy for your own gain" popped into my head immediately, but she never really went after that.

She didn't really need to. That stood on its own.

[StrangeSox]

Trump was trying to follow a general script - he didn't really do much preparation and that was obvious - and got Clinton a couple of times (she really doesn't have an answer for why she reversed her position on the TPP), but she started talking (factual) s*** after a couple of rounds and she IMMEDIATELY got in Trump's head. He never actually denied that he didn't pay taxes or that he shafted all those Atlantic City contractors, and if anything, he bragged about it. He got visibly angry and started melting down. He started interrupting her and talking over her, audibly sighing (one time he did this after she said he was painting an overly negative picture of black communities), grunting, etc. His answer to the first use policy question was gibberish, he clearly had no clue what that was. After about 20 minutes into the debate, Clinton was in Trump's head and everything he did or said was at her will. I think he's dumb enough to fall for this at the next debate too.

 

He actually bragged about it, said "that's called being smart."

 

I'm thinking that Trump's going to spend a decent chunk of the next debate relitigating this one because he can't let anything go.

[lostfan]

He actually bragged about it, said "that's called being smart."

 

I'm thinking that Trump's going to spend a decent chunk of the next debate relitigating this one because he can't let anything go.

It doesn't really matter though. Trump just pretends he didn't say it. He denied saying not paying taxes was smart when Jake Tapper interviewed him later. He's Orwellian af, but his supporters don't care.

[lostfan]

I also forgot that Hillary let him off the hook for the racist housing practices. He first started with "well lots of other people were doing it", but then kept saying "We settled with no admission of guilt." Well, thats most of those investigations go when they settle. Also, she now has better footing with any of the allegations against her cause she never was even investigated, which is better than "settling".

Any lawyer who makes their client settle with an admission of guilt is a dumbass.

[StrangeSox]

It doesn't really matter though. Trump just pretends he didn't say it. He denied saying not paying taxes was smart when Jake Tapper interviewed him later. He's Orwellian af, but his supporters don't care.

 

Yeah but like I said mid-debate, it ain't about convincing his core supporters that give him a floor of 35-40%. It's about making sure people remain energized for Clinton, peeling away some of the soft millenial voters saying they're going to vote Johnson or Stein or not at all, and deenergizing some of the soft Republican supporters. If she keeps him in the 40-42% range and keeps herself 45%+, she coasts.

[NorthSideSox72]

All that needs to be watched in the coming week, poll-wise, are the ones in the few states that actually matter - OH, PA, FL, NC primarily, with smaller levels of interest in CO, IA and NV. The national polls are irrelevant. We'll have an idea of whether or not either candidate made a dent in the next few days, through the lens of those few states.

 

[lostfan]

Yeah but like I said mid-debate, it ain't about convincing his core supporters that give him a floor of 35-40%. It's about making sure people remain energized for Clinton, peeling away some of the soft millenial voters saying they're going to vote Johnson or Stein or not at all, and deenergizing some of the soft Republican supporters. If she keeps him in the 40-42% range and keeps herself 45%+, she coasts.

Yeah, Trump didn't lose any votes last night. He won't... he can't. Years ago I used to say that 40% will vote for a Republican no matter who it is or what they do, and Trump is really putting that theory to the test. But Clinton isn't the one who really needs to move the needle (although she is trying to, obviously), Trump's the one who's been trailing in the polls. This election really isn't following normal rules.

[iamshack]

It doesn't really matter though. Trump just pretends he didn't say it. He denied saying not paying taxes was smart when Jake Tapper interviewed him later. He's Orwellian af, but his supporters don't care.

Well, he did reply later that he "followed the laws of the nation," which, to me, is a better way to reply to the tax issue. I am quite certain that the Clinton's take advantage of tax law and tax loopholes to avoid paying excess taxes as well.

 

Trump is a businessman and many of his supporters admire him for those qualities and want him in the White House because of those qualities. The fact that he hires intelligent tax lawyers is so far down the list of reasons not to vote for him that it is a non-issue.

 

What is incredible to me is how the guy is not intelligent enough to just use Hillary's "establishment" label against her in a civil way (use Bernie's playbook) and then mix in some of his own thoughts and ideas with a bent on his business experience and his ability to "get things done." To me, that is a potential winning blueprint that either his team fails to see (which I highly doubt), or he simply is not disciplined enough to execute.

[Quin]

Well, he did reply later that he "followed the laws of the nation," which, to me, is a better way to reply to the tax issue. I am quite certain that the Clinton's take advantage of tax law and tax loopholes to avoid paying excess taxes as well.

 

Trump is a businessman and many of his supporters admire him for those qualities and want him in the White House because of those qualities. The fact that he hires intelligent tax lawyers is so far down the list of reasons not to vote for him that it is a non-issue.

 

What is incredible to me is how the guy is not intelligent enough to just use Hillary's "establishment" label against her in a civil way (use Bernie's playbook) and then mix in some of his own thoughts and ideas with a bent on his business experience and his ability to "get things done." To me, that is a potential winning blueprint that either his team fails to see (which I highly doubt), or he simply is not disciplined enough to execute.

 

He isn't able to execute because she got under his skin immediately. He was expecting another Jeb! or Rubio, not a shark out for blood.

[StrangeSox]

Google searches for ‘registrarse para votar’ hit all-time high during debate

 

Well, he did reply later that he "followed the laws of the nation," which, to me, is a better way to reply to the tax issue. I am quite certain that the Clinton's take advantage of tax law and tax loopholes to avoid paying excess taxes as well.

 

They haven't really, but that's entirely because first Bill and then Hillary wanted to win the White House and were playing the long game.

 

[StrangeSox]

He isn't able to execute because she got under his skin immediately. He was expecting another Jeb! or Rubio, not a shark out for blood.

 

She had multiple psychologists on her debate prep team for exactly this reason.