2016 Democratic Thread

[RockRaines]

He isn't able to execute because she got under his skin immediately. He was expecting another Jeb! or Rubio, not a shark out for blood.

He also showed up and tried to "wing it." At some point you have to have some substance other than "it will be tremendous."

[bmags]

It's obvious he isn't disciplined enough to execute, because he cannot have any perceived slight made against him without answering. That's why he makes his mouth into a butthole and says "WRONG" on things that will obviously come out to be right.

 

I'm surprised the idea that clinton was rude when she was constantly interrupted by him, and verbally screamed at. Her dismissiveness of his word salads are what I believe will energize dems. They are people, like any other, they don't like constant weeks of pneumonia stories and clinton foundation non-stories. They want to see the person saying everything is terrible on the defensive. THey want a candidate standing strongly for ideals.

 

I haven't heard it mentioned, but I thought her answers on policing were inspired and home runs.

 

But the stuff that will get play is the end. Him going on tv and talking about how the model gained weight is the stuff that is so absurd it just demoralizes trump leaning voters to stay home and move out of that likely voter model.

 

I think this group is underrating how this will get talked to death until the next debate, and she didn't "hit home runs", but there are so many moments that are going to get played to death. In a normal debate between normal candidates, a simple line like "you've been fighting ISIS your entire adult life" is so patently stupid that it would dominate. There is a lot here.

[RockRaines]

Also what year are we trying to go back to to make America Great again? Can anyone tell me that target?

[lostfan]

He isn't able to execute because she got under his skin immediately. He was expecting another Jeb! or Rubio, not a shark out for blood.

On the Republican side, the only one with debate chops like Clinton is maybe Cruz, but Cruz was a punk ass b**** and never really challenged Trump until it was far too late. Or maybe Fiorina, but she wasn't a serious candidate.

[shysocks]

Him talking about Rosie O'Donnell by the end was maybe my favorite part. Hillary couldn't have scripted a better outcome to the Alicia Machado attack. That might be the lasting mark from this debate.

[bmags]

Why is someone who dislikes Hillary watching he MSNBC post game?

 

I ended up watching MSNBC because of CNN's ABSURD 20 person panel.

[StrangeSox]

It's obvious he isn't disciplined enough to execute, because he cannot have any perceived slight made against him without answering. That's why he makes his mouth into a butthole and says "WRONG" on things that will obviously come out to be right.

 

I'm surprised the idea that clinton was rude when she was constantly interrupted by him, and verbally screamed at. Her dismissiveness of his word salads are what I believe will energize dems. They are people, like any other, they don't like constant weeks of pneumonia stories and clinton foundation non-stories. They want to see the person saying everything is terrible on the defensive. THey want a candidate standing strongly for ideals.

 

I haven't heard it mentioned, but I thought her answers on policing were inspired and home runs.

 

But the stuff that will get play is the end. Him going on tv and talking about how the model gained weight is the stuff that is so absurd it just demoralizes trump leaning voters to stay home and move out of that likely voter model.

 

I think this group is underrating how this will get talked to death until the next debate, and she didn't "hit home runs", but there are so many moments that are going to get played to death. In a normal debate between normal candidates, a simple line like "you've been fighting ISIS your entire adult life" is so patently stupid that it would dominate. There is a lot here.

 

We still haven't reached "Please proceed, governor" levels of stone-cold destruction yet imo.

[lostfan]

I ended up watching MSNBC because of CNN's ABSURD 20 person panel.

Whenever I watch those panels I'm like "I hate these f***ing people. The election really is coming down to dumb people exactly like this."

[bmags]

On the Republican side, the only one with debate chops like Clinton is maybe Cruz, but Cruz was a punk ass b**** and never really challenged Trump until it was far too late. Or maybe Fiorina, but she wasn't a serious candidate.

 

Kasich was good, but Romney was one of the better GOP debaters to come out in last 25 years

[RockRaines]

Whenever I watch those panels I'm like "I hate these f***ing people. The election really is coming down to dumb people exactly like this."

Look at Facebook comments, every one of those idiots have the right to vote.

[lostfan]

Also what year are we trying to go back to to make America Great again? Can anyone tell me that target?

Thought I was on Facebook, tried to "like" this

[RockRaines]

Thought I was on Facebook, tried to "like" this

Followed by 60 people arguing over emails and birthing and murders and guns

[StrangeSox]

Followed by 60 people arguing over emails and birthing and murders and guns

when will websites learn that nested comment threads are a clearly inferior form of posting

[iamshack]

I guess I just find it hard to believe that the guy hasn't encountered others who get under his skin in his business dealings. Maybe he is so frequently in a position of power due to his resources that others rarely challenge him, but quite frankly, I am shocked by how easily he gets angered and frustrated.

 

I'll be honest - I don't care for Clinton - but I found her to be condescending behavior to be a turnoff as well. The countless times where she responded to him by laughing or had a big smile on her face, or with this act of 'wow, Donald how can I possibly respond to the steaming pile of bulls*** you just served up' isn't going to win over anyone she has't already won over anyways. She needs to focus on those voters that don't care for that typical and predictable response either.

 

There are a number of voters who are sick of the political status quo, and are considering voting for trump simply because he isn't that. Mocking him isn't helping to gain their votes. Rather than waste her time making him look silly, which he already does very well all by himself, she should continue to juxtapose her plans which have substance against his which do not. Simply continue to hammer him on the substance and the facts and abstain from coming off as elitist and condescending.

[bmags]

If she didn't laugh they'd say she didn't smile enough. I think she won handy because that is not the theme coming out and it's the easiest thing to hit her on. Trump was sniffing, screaming sweating and incoherent, but that's okay, he's trump. We get to treat him with kid gloves. She knew everything she was talking about, but responded to a stream of nonsense with laughing at it. But I don't think tha'ts a bad idea, people DON'T see that he is incoherent and dangerous, we saw that from the foreign policy forum. He said absolute nonsense but Lauer just went, okay, mmm hmm, and it passed off, nothing mattered.

 

Things I want her to swing back on, tesla just built one of the biggest factories in the world in california. Use that in the "global warming is a hoax" to talk about winning green industry. 2 of the other biggest factories in the world are in Illinois. Ford is not losing any jobs from their plant switch, they are building two new cars.

 

His thesis is we need to go back and time and keep textile factories. She needs to talk about getting america to skate where the puck is going to be.

[lostfan]

I guess I just find it hard to believe that the guy hasn't encountered others who get under his skin in his business dealings. Maybe he is so frequently in a position of power due to his resources that others rarely challenge him, but quite frankly, I am shocked by how easily he gets angered and frustrated.

 

I'll be honest - I don't care for Clinton - but I found her to be condescending behavior to be a turnoff as well. The countless times where she responded to him by laughing or had a big smile on her face, or with this act of 'wow, Donald how can I possibly respond to the steaming pile of bulls*** you just served up' isn't going to win over anyone she has't already won over anyways. She needs to focus on those voters that don't care for that typical and predictable response either.

 

There are a number of voters who are sick of the political status quo, and are considering voting for trump simply because he isn't that. Mocking him isn't helping to gain their votes. Rather than waste her time making him look silly, which he already does very well all by himself, she should continue to juxtapose her plans which have substance against his which do not. Simply continue to hammer him on the substance and the facts and abstain from coming off as elitist and condescending.

1. Trump does encounter people like that, but he's typically dealt with them through some combination of bluffing, bluster, and outright bullying by threatening lawsuits or screwing people over. I was pretty familiar with Trump before he started running for president and this is a pretty consistent pattern.

 

2. So many women recognized that pursed-lips smile Clinton had on her face most of the night, because they've been trained to do that from birth. The "patiently smile while a ridiculous man who isn't that bright talks down to you" look.

[StrangeSox]

I'm not really sure how else Clinton or anyone is supposed to respond to a stream of incoherent nonsense especially in a debate format. Dismissing it as the steaming plate of BS that it is is the quickest and easiest way to both undermine your opponent and move on to your own message.

[bmags]

Trumps personality isn't that outlandish for real estate developers. It is a personality, grease-rubbing business. He's perfect for that. Doesn't mean it's great for a president, quite the opposite.

[RockRaines]

Trumps personality isn't that outlandish for real estate developers. It is a personality, grease-rubbing business. He's perfect for that. Doesn't mean it's great for a president, quite the opposite.

Pretty much. Over promise, under deliver, blame someone else, run.

[Quin]

If anyone thins Clinton should have been kind or trrated Trump as an equal, that's absurd.

 

Half of his shtick is he seems visually powerful I'm these debates. Making him look weak and defensive is the right way to go.

[StrangeSox]

Something that's not been getting a lot of play but really, really should was Trump saying that blowing up other nation's military boats over taunting wouldn't lead to a war. Multiple wars started literally that exact way (or at least that was the cause given on the surface).

[bmags]

Look at Mr. Facts over here, nerd!

[StrangeSox]

Trump doubled down on calling a former Miss Universe fat on Fox & Friends this morning, so that'll be the #1 thing talked about coming out of this debate for a little bit. I have a feeling (hope) that we're about to re-enter the early/mid-August period of things actually mattering.

[Jenksismyhero]

Most of you have echoed my thoughts in one way or another.

 

1) i'm embarrassed as a citizen of this country that these are our choices to be the leader of the free world: a narcissistic blowhard with no experience and a career bulls***ter with little to show for being in positions of power for 30 years. He is an unqualified moron and she is an unlikable fake person. Ugh.

 

2) I'd say Clinton "won" in the sense that she didn't fail as much as Trump. I don't give her any credit for "getting into Trump's head." He does that all on his own. And it made him look moronic. "Wrong.....Wrong......Wrong...." I mean the whole thing was such a circus.

 

3) I do give credit to Clinton for finally just admitting she f***ed up with those emails and saying that she regretted it. That should have been her answer from day one.

 

4) I give credit to Trump for actually agreeing with Clinton on multiple issues that normally Republicans seem too hesitant to admit (limited gun control, for example). I also give him credit for finally saying on a national stage that blacks have been given promises after promises from democrats and they have nothing to show for it. I feel like that's a drum that Repubs don't hit often enough.

 

5) The nonsense about taxes and not paying laborers is such a low blow. Is it a big deal that Trump doesn't pay federal taxes personally? Eh. He pays more in taxes than we all do combined in other ways. I don't like it, but i'm not going to hold it against him either. And i'm not sure why his comment "because i'm smart, i know the laws" is a bad answer. We all do that and would do that if we were in his position. He's just being honest there and I actually appreciate that.

 

The other low blow was bringing up not paying contractors. Having done many construction and commercial agreement cases in the past, a contractor doing s***ty work is not exactly uncommon. I don't know the specifics of the cases she's referring to, but if someone was hired to do a job and didn't do it right or did it for beyond cost or whatever, Trump not paying may be totally reasonable. But if you think about it, what an unimportant issue for a Presidential debate. Might as well bring up the time he only tipped 15% instead of 20.

 

6) I'm jealous of Trump's confidence/ability to actually believe that he didn't say the things that he obviously said. The dude has a twitter account. It's a public record of his thoughts. How can you so confidently state that you didn't say X or Y when you know that someone can prove you wrong in a matter of seconds? And it's sad that he can do that time and time again and there's basically no consequence. He even did it after the debate in the spin room when he denied saying he doesn't pay federal taxes. He denied saying it despite saying it 30 minutes prior!

 

7) Holt didn't do well, but that's gotta be one of the toughest jobs in the business. I think he's being criticized a bit too much today.

 

8) Ultimately no one is changing their votes based on last night, and I doubt any minds will change based on the other debates. At the end of the day these are both s*** candidates and people are going to choose what they believe is the lesser of two evils - someone out of left field with no ties to the "establishment," promising things will be different or someone who looks the part and acts the part but is the same as what we've had for the last 8+ years. Whatever these two say between now and then doesn't change the narrative of each campaign.

Edited September 27, 2016 by JenksIsMyHero

[illinilaw08]

The other low blow was bringing up not paying contractors. Having done many construction and commercial agreement cases in the past, a contractor doing s***ty work is not exactly uncommon. I don't know the specifics of the cases she's referring to, but if someone was hired to do a job and didn't do it right or did it for beyond cost or whatever, Trump not paying may be totally reasonable. But if you think about it, what an unimportant issue for a Presidential debate. Might as well bring up the time he only tipped 15% instead of 20.

 

A multi-billionaire who claims that he is going to be good for the middle class who, at the same time, has a history of not paying contractors is absolutely relevant. If he's been spending his professional stiffing people who did work for him, then why should we think that will change once he's in office?

 

I do a fair bit of construction work as well, and agree that there are a lot of really crappy contractors. BUT in one breath he says that his hotels are all the best in the world, and in the other breath, the contractors who built them did poor jobs and shouldn't be paid. It can't be both...