2016 Democratic Thread

[RockRaines]

I also give him credit for finally saying on a national stage that blacks have been given promises after promises from democrats and they have nothing to show for it. I feel like that's a drum that Repubs don't hit often enough.

He could have walked down that path but instead he placed his chips on an entirely racist policy (stop and frisk) and admitted he only had "relations' with the black community recently and briefly. He cant harp on Dem's failure within the black community (and failure is debatable) while still championing racist policies and accepting support of racist organizations. Thats why the Republicans want him to stay away from that topic.

[bmags]

Yeah, so, the reason Hillary is voting is not because Trump is winning 44% of the vote. It's because 8-10% is protest voting. Dems lead registered voter polls, are tied in Likely voter polls.

 

There are people that saw Trump advocate for a nationwide stop and frisk policy after being told it was unconsitutional, said it was because of a not friendly police judge. He also went to his war on women vote. Those protest votes will see that and move over, especially with Hillary's great answer on that, and correcting that crime went down after stop and frisk went away.

[GoSox05]

Saying that these are both "s*** Candidates" and "is the best we have to offer" is putting them on the same level. One candidate is underwhelming and the other is an absolute nut with some fascist ideology.

 

I don't like a lot of Hillary Clinton's ideas, but she is a normal candidate. She is no worse then almost every other major candidate that has run for office. The other one is crazy.

[StrangeSox]

Most of you have echoed my thoughts in one way or another.

 

1) i'm embarrassed as a citizen of this country that these are our choices to be the leader of the free world: a narcissistic blowhard with no experience and a career bulls***ter with little to show for being in positions of power for 30 years. He is an unqualified moron and she is an unlikable fake person. Ugh.

 

Ok but "unlikable" versus "unqualified moron" seems like a pretty easy call?

 

2) I'd say Clinton "won" in the sense that she didn't fail as much as Trump. I don't give her any credit for "getting into Trump's head." He does that all on his own. And it made him look moronic. "Wrong.....Wrong......Wrong...." I mean the whole thing was such a circus.

 

3) I do give credit to Clinton for finally just admitting she f***ed up with those emails and saying that she regretted it. That should have been her answer from day one.

 

Agreed.

 

4) I give credit to Trump for actually agreeing with Clinton on multiple issues that normally Republicans seem too hesitant to admit (limited gun control, for example). I also give him credit for finally saying on a national stage that blacks have been given promises after promises from democrats and they have nothing to show for it. I feel like that's a drum that Repubs don't hit often enough.

 

I'm pretty confident that that line of attack has been tried by Republicans many times in the past and it always fails for pretty obvious reasons.

 

5) The nonsense about taxes and not paying laborers is such a low blow. Is it a big deal that Trump doesn't pay federal taxes personally? Eh. He pays more in taxes than we all do combined in other ways. I don't like it, but i'm not going to hold it against him either. And i'm not sure why his comment "because i'm smart, i know the laws" is a bad answer. We all do that and would do that if we were in his position. He's just being honest there and I actually appreciate that.

 

We don't know how much he paid in taxes but his answer implied yesterday that it may be as low as 0%. It's almost definitely a much, much lower rate than any of us pay and that's a key part of the Democrats' tax message.

 

The other low blow was bringing up not paying contractors. Having done many construction and commercial agreement cases in the past, a contractor doing s***ty work is not exactly uncommon. I don't know the specifics of the cases she's referring to, but if someone was hired to do a job and didn't do it right or did it for beyond cost or whatever, Trump not paying may be totally reasonable. But if you think about it, what an unimportant issue for a Presidential debate. Might as well bring up the time he only tipped 15% instead of 20.

 

No, he's got a long history of doing this as standard operating procedure to line his own pockets. Painting the guy who's trying to be the champion of the white working class as a guy who routinely screws over the white working class for his own gain is a decent move, politically. Since his only qualifications are his business experience, bringing up shady business practices is relevant.

 

6) I'm jealous of Trump's confidence/ability to actually believe that he didn't say the things that he obviously said. The dude has a twitter account. It's a public record of his thoughts. How can you so confidently state that you didn't say X or Y when you know that someone can prove you wrong in a matter of seconds? And it's sad that he can do that time and time again and there's basically no consequence. He even did it after the debate in the spin room when he denied saying he doesn't pay federal taxes. He denied saying it despite saying it 30 minutes prior!

 

He's a delusional narcissist.

 

7) Holt didn't do well, but that's gotta be one of the toughest jobs in the business. I think he's being criticized a bit too much today.

 

I thought he did okay and did that "fact checking" part the way it should be done, challenging candidates to support their claims when they fly in the face of reality and to answer the question that was asked.

 

8) Ultimately no one is changing their votes based on last night, and I doubt any minds will change based on the other debates. At the end of the day these are both s*** candidates and people are going to choose what they believe is the lesser of two evils - someone out of left field with no ties to the "establishment, promising things will be different or someone who looks the part and acts the part but is the same as what we've had for the last 8+ years. Whatever these two say between now and then doesn't change the narrative of each campaign.

 

Debates typically don't matter too much, but I think we'll see some Clinton supporters re-energized and some soft Trump supporters demoralized in the next week or so. I agree that you won't see too many people changing their votes from Trump to Clinton or vice-verse, but that's not what the game is about.

 

[bmags]

Yeah, black people are so stupid they became a part of a party and advocated for policies to help their community with their own representatives!

[StrangeSox]

Yeah, black people are so stupid they became a part of a party and advocated for policies to help their community with their own representatives!

 

Didn't want to dig into it too deep but yeah that "democratic plantation" nonsense isn't exactly well-received by black people.

[RockRaines]

Didn't want to dig into it too deep but yeah that "democratic plantation" nonsense isn't exactly well-received by black people.

Nationwide stop and frisk in a time where tension is very high between these communities and police is hilariously bad strategy. It's an incredibly racist policy.

[Jenksismyhero]

A multi-billionaire who claims that he is going to be good for the middle class who, at the same time, has a history of not paying contractors is absolutely relevant. If he's been spending his professional stiffing people who did work for him, then why should we think that will change once he's in office?

 

I do a fair bit of construction work as well, and agree that there are a lot of really crappy contractors. BUT in one breath he says that his hotels are all the best in the world, and in the other breath, the contractors who built them did poor jobs and shouldn't be paid. It can't be both...

 

I just think it's akin to complaining about not tipping someone. I've stiffed s***ty waiters/waitresses on tips in my life. It's a rare occurrence but if someone wanted to they could claim i'm a s***ty person because i don't tip people for their hard work. Unless you go example by example, it's an unfair accusation. The guys been in business for 30 years working with probably tens of thousands of contractors. If you're talking about a handful of them getting "stiffed," is that really a "history?" Unless it's happening the majority of the time I don't think it's a sign of anything. And I haven't heard of THAT many examples.

 

And i'm not sure why it can't be both. Despite your best efforts you can get stuck with a s***ty contractor or sub-contractor. Doesn't mean you don't know how to build or operate a building.

[bmags]

I mean, that's where I think Trump really lost. It really started last week with the Birther announcement. He crossed a line with the media where they stopped putting up with the crap where he can lie ad nauseum and it's hand waved.

 

The "crime is actually lower now after stop and frisk ended"

 

"NO ITS UP"

 

"Actually crime is down in new york since it ended"

"No"

 

I mean, i'm sure if unfamiliar in real time people could be like, "here we go again", but in the days after, this will be played and it will be said, unequivocally, no, crime continued to plummet after those policies ended.

 

His contention that he can just blatantly say the sky is red and the blue in the map is land is going to be a thing for this last month. It's no longer a "well he's very assertive and people like no nonsense!"

[Jenksismyhero]

He could have walked down that path but instead he placed his chips on an entirely racist policy (stop and frisk) and admitted he only had "relations' with the black community recently and briefly. He cant harp on Dem's failure within the black community (and failure is debatable) while still championing racist policies and accepting support of racist organizations. Thats why the Republicans want him to stay away from that topic.

 

All very true. The stop and frisk stuff was nauseating. "It's unconstitutional" "No it's not." Ugh...

[Jenksismyhero]

Yeah, black people are so stupid they became a part of a party and advocated for policies to help their community with their own representatives!

 

Chicago isn't a prime example of this or anything...

[Jenksismyhero]

Didn't want to dig into it too deep but yeah that "democratic plantation" nonsense isn't exactly well-received by black people.

 

Just because they don't want to hear it doesn't mean it's not true.

[Jenksismyhero]

I mean, that's where I think Trump really lost. It really started last week with the Birther announcement. He crossed a line with the media where they stopped putting up with the crap where he can lie ad nauseum and it's hand waved.

 

The "crime is actually lower now after stop and frisk ended"

 

"NO ITS UP"

 

"Actually crime is down in new york since it ended"

"No"

 

I mean, i'm sure if unfamiliar in real time people could be like, "here we go again", but in the days after, this will be played and it will be said, unequivocally, no, crime continued to plummet after those policies ended.

 

His contention that he can just blatantly say the sky is red and the blue in the map is land is going to be a thing for this last month. It's no longer a "well he's very assertive and people like no nonsense!"

 

I dunno man, he's lied on so much stuff the last year, and despite the media pointing it out it doesn't seem to hurt him at all.

[lostfan]

Jenks: Hillary has said she f***ed up with the e-mail server a lot of times, for some weeks now. She's been asked about it over and over. She didn't break new ground last night.

[Jenksismyhero]

Jenks: Hillary has said she f***ed up with the e-mail server a lot of times, for some weeks now. She's been asked about it over and over. She didn't break new ground last night.

 

OK, this is the first i've heard her say that. She's tried every other tactic before. Denial, it's not a big deal, ignorance of technology, they did it too, etc.

[bmags]

Just because they don't want to hear it doesn't mean it's not true.

 

So white people from rural ohio and iowa, what have they gotten out of voting republican? Are they stupid dumb idiots too?

 

Your comment is basically that black people have no agency, they are voting for those policies because they think those are the best policies for city/state/country. They are pretty much like every other voters.

 

If you want to criticize, perhaps we can get to the bottom of why white males are so certain that a racist buffoon is best to run the most powerful country in the world?

[StrangeSox]

I just think it's akin to complaining about not tipping someone. I've stiffed s***ty waiters/waitresses on tips in my life. It's a rare occurrence but if someone wanted to they could claim i'm a s***ty person because i don't tip people for their hard work. Unless you go example by example, it's an unfair accusation. The guys been in business for 30 years working with probably tens of thousands of contractors. If you're talking about a handful of them getting "stiffed," is that really a "history?" Unless it's happening the majority of the time I don't think it's a sign of anything. And I haven't heard of THAT many examples.

 

And i'm not sure why it can't be both. Despite your best efforts you can get stuck with a s***ty contractor or sub-contractor. Doesn't mean you don't know how to build or operate a building.

 

But then he turns around and hires these people again. This is part of his operating plan and not based on legitimate complaints about the workmanship.

 

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/...or-decades.html

[bmags]

I dunno man, he's lied on so much stuff the last year, and despite the media pointing it out it doesn't seem to hurt him at all.

 

Newspapers are beginning to run "here's all the lies Trump told in last week".

 

 

[lostfan]

Chicago isn't a prime example of this or anything...

Where are the Republicans in Chicago who would "fix" the numerous issues layered on top of one another that have piled up on the black community over the course of multiple decades?

 

Seriously. They simply do not exist. There is no such thing. People seem to fail to understand this for some reason. Chicago is run by Democrats because Democrats live in Chicago. Additionally, municipal-level politics really have nothing to do with national parties.

[brett05]

There were over a dozen debates in the Republican primary.

 

And how many of those were one on one? That's right...Zero.

 

wrong.

You are right. I did find a couple more that favored Hillary. 90+% of the polls favor Donald. Deny the truth all you wish my friend.

[bmags]

Where are the Republicans in Chicago who would "fix" the numerous issues layered on top of one another that have piled up on the black community over the course of multiple decades?

 

Seriously. They simply do not exist. There is no such thing. People seem to fail to understand this for some reason. Chicago is run by Democrats because Democrats live in Chicago. Additionally, municipal-level politics really have nothing to do with national parties.

Preach. It actively hurts local discourse. I vote democrat at a national level because we can print money, but it doesn't mean I would vote for a $36 million pool locally because of democratic comptroller is endorsing it.

[chw42]

Also what year are we trying to go back to to make America Great again? Can anyone tell me that target?

 

If you ask some Trump supporters...whenever minorities didn't have rights.

[StrangeSox]

And how many of those were one on one? That's right...Zero.

 

Man, Trump is completely incapable of actually handling someone one on one? That's not really a good quality in a leader.

 

 

You are right. I did find a couple more that favored Hillary. 90+% of the polls favor Donald. Deny the truth all you wish my friend.

 

online polls rushed by /pol/ and r/the_donald are the true indicator of the political atmosphere of this country!

[Kyyle23]

I just think it's akin to complaining about not tipping someone. I've stiffed s***ty waiters/waitresses on tips in my life. It's a rare occurrence but if someone wanted to they could claim i'm a s***ty person because i don't tip people for their hard work. Unless you go example by example, it's an unfair accusation. The guys been in business for 30 years working with probably tens of thousands of contractors. If you're talking about a handful of them getting "stiffed," is that really a "history?" Unless it's happening the majority of the time I don't think it's a sign of anything. And I haven't heard of THAT many examples.

 

And i'm not sure why it can't be both. Despite your best efforts you can get stuck with a s***ty contractor or sub-contractor. Doesn't mean you don't know how to build or operate a building.

 

a tip is optional though. He bankrupted the guy that built Mar-A Lago for him, thats not even remotely the same thing. This is like eating your pizza, then saying you hated it and walking out the door. Thats called dine and dash

[Jenksismyhero]

So white people from rural ohio and iowa, what have they gotten out of voting republican? Are they stupid dumb idiots too?

 

Your comment is basically that black people have no agency, they are voting for those policies because they think those are the best policies for city/state/country. They are pretty much like every other voters.

 

If you want to criticize, perhaps we can get to the bottom of why white males are so certain that a racist buffoon is best to run the most powerful country in the world?

 

Lotta farm subsidies, for one. Those rural people also generally align with the Repubs social policies versus Dems.

 

I'm not saying they don't have agency. They obviously do. But as Trump correctly pointed out, every election cycle the Democrat for X race comes out and says they're going to fix schools, stop crime, create jobs - all directly for the benefit of black communities. And then once the election is over a lot of that talk goes away and none of those promises are delivered.

 

I think it's a fair question to ask, why can't the black community try another way? In Illinois and Chicago for example, it's basically been democratic policies controlling the county/city for the last however many decades. An alternative republican policy isn't even considered. Why not?