2016 Democratic Thread

[RockRaines]

I don't really know what you mean you say conservatives aren't really listening. As you said, big cities and Democratic. On a nationwide level, Republicans don't have a lot of policy concerned with the black vote. I think the new wing of the Republican party will change that. The problem is Democrats offer free stuff and Republicans are nonexistent. I'd take the free stuff too.

 

You really believe that?

[RockRaines]

Trump took over $100k in money for 9/11 recovery funds even though none of his property was damaged.

 

He takes a property tax credit meant for low income people in New York City.

 

The list of ways Trump runs nickle-and-dime grifts is pretty long.

His family made their money being complete slum lords exploiting the poor.

[StrangeSox]

I don't really know what you mean you say conservatives aren't really listening. As you said, big cities and Democratic. On a nationwide level, Republicans don't have a lot of policy concerned with the black vote. I think the new wing of the Republican party will change that. The problem is Democrats offer free stuff and Republicans are nonexistent. I'd take the free stuff too.

 

I think the blacks know that they are being policed in a way that's unfair compared to the rest of the country. I am not talking about police shootings. I am talking about the pay to play legal system, the microscope on their communities and the rules on drugs and felonies. The less people there are with felonies, the less people there are in jail and then there's less kids with no fathers. This is a Libertarian policy that should be bipartisan as it's so obvious the imprisonment and destruction of the family is the root of the problem.

 

See, the first part is the "free stuff" narrative is inherently deeply insulting to the black community, and white conservatives who preach it are completely tone-deaf to anything that various minority communities actually say and think about race and racial politics/policies in this country.

 

The second is that, at least for the past decade plus since the "tough on crime" era phased out, Democrats have also been pushing decriminalization particularly when it comes to drugs and for ending the awful mass incarceration in this country. This is one of the very few areas I overlap with some libertarians on, and I've linked Radley Balko's excellent work on this subject before, but pretending it's just a Libertarian solution and not what the Democrats are also offering and actually putting into place because they have actual political power is just silly.

[iamshack]

Or a large percentage of white voters are willing to overlook all of his flaws because they're all-in on his white grievance nationalism, and the Democrats absolutely should not be chasing those votes.

You may be right...and if indeed you are, then I concede there is really little she can do at this point.

 

[iamshack]

Trump took over $100k in money for 9/11 recovery funds even though none of his property was damaged.

 

He takes a property tax credit meant for low income people in New York City.

 

The list of ways Trump runs nickle-and-dime grifts is pretty long.

I suspect this is par for the course for basically everyone in Congress, is it not?

[lostfan]

I don't really know what you mean you say conservatives aren't really listening. As you said, big cities and Democratic. On a nationwide level, Republicans don't have a lot of policy concerned with the black vote. I think the new wing of the Republican party will change that. The problem is Democrats offer free stuff and Republicans are nonexistent. I'd take the free stuff too.

 

I think the blacks know that they are being policed in a way that's unfair compared to the rest of the country. I am not talking about police shootings. I am talking about the pay to play legal system, the microscope on their communities and the rules on drugs and felonies. The less people there are with felonies, the less people there are in jail and then there's less kids with no fathers. This is a Libertarian policy that should be bipartisan as it's so obvious the imprisonment and destruction of the family is the root of the problem.

 

Just testimonial but I got in trouble all the time growing up. Between going to the principals/deans and then a little bit with the police too. When I'd come home and my mom would go, "I am disappointed in you, what were you thinking, yada, yada, yada." I would just shrug it off. Then when it was 6:05 and I knew my dad would be home in the next half hour I would start to get nervous. I am a proud momma's boy but my mom couldn't scare me on her worst day. When I got in trouble and my old man was on his way home... I started fearing for myself. I slept in on a Friday, couldn't get a ride to school because my parents were at work and I just stayed home. I had a party that night so I didn't tell my parents until Monday when the dean called. My Dad pulled me off the basketball team. If it was just my mom and I, she would've complained, and the behavior would have continued.

 

When I messed up at home or at school growing up, I paid a price. When I got picked up by the cops, I never paid a price with the law, just at home after my parents got me out. In inner city communities with a high concentration of single parent households, the opposite happens. That's a problem.

 

 

This adds nothing to the conversation.

They don't. I mean... occasionally you'll see something like Newt Gingrich, totally out of the blue, acknowledge systemic racism is real, or Glenn Beck agree with black people (probably because of his libertarian streak) but by and large that's the exception and not the norm. The rest of them are the people who comment on Fox News posts after police shootings - Republicans do this awkward tap-dance aware these people exist and they're a large part of their constituency but trying not to offend them. Trump's pretty much blown the door off that in this election and turned on the light to show all the cochroaches. But anyway as a black person, best to just pretend those people don't even exist and work around them.

 

TL;DR one party is at least semi-responsive to the priorities of black people, if imperfect and frustrating, the other either ignores them or actively resists them, with a handful of exceptions. That's still a relatively easy choice. Republicans haven't done anything since maybe the early 70s to even try to make inroads.

[RockRaines]

See, the first part is the "free stuff" narrative is inherently deeply insulting to the black community, and white conservatives who preach it are completely tone-deaf to anything that various minority communities actually say and think about race and racial politics/policies in this country.

The free stuff narrative is racist, tone deaf and ignorant as f***. It's the wool pulled over the eyes of voters by the wealthy who want to keep more of their money for themselves.

[StrangeSox]

I suspect this is par for the course for basically everyone in Congress, is it not?

 

No. There's issues with the revolving door of congressmen becoming lobbyists and some of the insider trading knowledge stuff they can do, but that doesn't mean they're all two-bit grifters scamming desperate people out of thousands of dollars.

 

He runs his scam charity as a personal slush fund. David Fahrenthold's reporting over at WaPo on this has been fantastic.

[southsider2k5]

I presume 98% of his contractors get paid, or some high percentage. IF people didn't do their job, they shouldn't be paid. You can have amazing hotels without always having the best contractors on various sub-projects, etc. That is life in business. Now there could be examples where he is being ridiculous, I don't know, but not enough facts were presented to make me care one way or another. The tax issue was played brilliantly by Hillary and he was a knuckle head...should have just said those are the laws of this country and I follow the laws.

 

Trump blew the whole topic of tax avoidance, as he had the entire Clinton Foundation thing right there in front of him as an example of the same sort of behavior.

[StrangeSox]

They don't. I mean... occasionally you'll see something like Newt Gingrich, totally out of the blue, acknowledge systemic racism is real, or Glenn Beck agree with black people (probably because of his libertarian streak) but by and large that's the exception and not the norm. The rest of them are the people who comment on Fox News posts after police shootings - Republicans do this awkward tap-dance aware these people exist and they're a large part of their constituency but trying not to offend them. Trump's pretty much blown the door off that in this election and turned on the light to show all the cochroaches. But anyway as a black person, best to just pretend those people don't even exist and work around them.

 

TL;DR one party is at least semi-responsive to the priorities of black people, if imperfect and frustrating, the other either ignores them or actively resists them, with a handful of exceptions. That's still a relatively easy choice. Republicans haven't done anything since maybe the early 70s to even try to make inroads.

 

This Lee Atwater quote is basically the origin of the liberal "economic anxiety" jokes about the more deplorable parts of Trump's base.

 You start out in 1954 by saying, “n*****, n*****, n*****.” By 1968 you can’t say “n*****”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “n*****, n*****.”

 

 

What's unfortunate about Trump's white nationalism is that his campaign is polarizing legitimate economic issues facing lower-income white people in this country. The concerns about small towns and rural areas being decimated and emptied out leaving those stuck behind in awful positions is eclipses by the angry shouting racist orange.

[lostfan]

So Chicago's issues are because of White people not Democrats? The 50 Aldermen in Chicago have 1 Republican. The South Side is a problem still.

Not really where I was going with that, but if you are going to go all the way back to the 60s, then yes, absolutely it's because of white people. This was back when white mobs of hundreds of people would attack black families who moved into the neighborhood for essentially just trying to live there. The racial component there is bright as the sun.

[lostfan]

People always ask what is being done about violence in Chicago? There's a bunch of organizations who were dedicated to reducing it. Ask someone what happened to their funding once Rahm and Rauner got elected.

[StrangeSox]

Rand Paul is opposed to the public accomodations provision of the Civil Rights Act. His outreach to the black community hasn't exactly gone well in the past either.

 

Going on about black people voting for Democrats because of "free stuff" is insulting. Not recognizing that is exactly what's meant by conservatives not listening.

 

Decriminalization in this state was in the works before Rauner was elected, and he forced it to be weaker than it otherwise would have been. The Obama administration has recently made multiple moves at the federal level regarding imprisonment policies and has deprioritized federal enforcement of low-level drug crimes.

[Jenksismyhero]

Yeah, this exactly. Like the way they have built public transportation in Baltimore. We'll build highways that are good for getting OUT of the city, and fine, we'll build public transportation, but only if it's a park and ride so *they* can't get out here where we've moved to.

 

It's not a coincidence that Chicago's trains go into the north suburbs and on the south side it only goes to 95th.

 

 

1) Which party did that?

 

2) Which party has been/is in power to address those issues?

 

I guess i'm seeing a disconnect when you guys are arguing Republican policies aren't helping, but you're not acknowledging that at a state and local level, all the power has been, and continues to be, with Democrats. They either created the mess, continued the mess, or have the power to address the mess but don't/haven't. Ok so Republicans on a national level have pushed against increasing the minimum wage. What prevented Chicago, Cook County and Illinois legislative bodies from ok'ing minimum wage increases 10 years ago versus 2 years ago? You need public transit money? What's preventing those same bodies from getting it? Same with education. It'd be one thing if Democrats didn't control the government in Illinois at basically all levels, but they do. So what's the excuse?

 

I ask again, why is it so wrong for Republicans to ask blacks to give them a chance given that what they've got over the last 40-50 years isn't working/hasn't worked.

[Jenksismyhero]

Rand Paul is opposed to the public accomodations provision of the Civil Rights Act. His outreach to the black community hasn't exactly gone well in the past either.

 

Going on about black people voting for Democrats because of "free stuff" is insulting. Not recognizing that is exactly what's meant by conservatives not listening.

Decriminalization in this state was in the works before Rauner was elected, and he forced it to be weaker than it otherwise would have been. The Obama administration has recently made multiple moves at the federal level regarding imprisonment policies and has deprioritized federal enforcement of low-level drug crimes.

 

That's bulls***. Those are literal campaign promises made by Democrats they vote for. We're going to give you more money for schools, more money for housing, we're going to stop crime, blah blah. They promise "stuff" and they don't deliver the "stuff."

[lostfan]

1) Which party did that?

 

2) Which party has been/is in power to address those issues?

 

I guess i'm seeing a disconnect when you guys are arguing Republican policies aren't helping, but you're not acknowledging that at a state and local level, all the power has been, and continues to be, with Democrats. They either created the mess, continued the mess, or have the power to address the mess but don't/haven't. Ok so Republicans on a national level have pushed against increasing the minimum wage. What prevented Chicago, Cook County and Illinois legislative bodies from ok'ing minimum wage increases 10 years ago versus 2 years ago? You need public transit money? What's preventing those same bodies from getting it? Same with education. It'd be one thing if Democrats didn't control the government in Illinois at basically all levels, but they do. So what's the excuse?

 

I ask again, why is it so wrong for Republicans to ask blacks to give them a chance given that what they've got over the last 40-50 years isn't working/hasn't worked.

I swear to God I answered this like 3 different ways already. lol are you thinking black voters in Chicago are big fans of Rahm Emanuel? Because no no no no no NO.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Ezio Auditore

[RockRaines]

Rand Paul is opposed to the public accomodations provision of the Civil Rights Act. His outreach to the black community hasn't exactly gone well in the past either.

 

Going on about black people voting for Democrats because of "free stuff" is insulting. Not recognizing that is exactly what's meant by conservatives not listening.

 

Decriminalization in this state was in the works before Rauner was elected, and he forced it to be weaker than it otherwise would have been. The Obama administration has recently made multiple moves at the federal level regarding imprisonment policies and has deprioritized federal enforcement of low-level drug crimes.

Its incredibly racist. 50 million people get government assistance. You'd think they were all democrats and black the way its portrayed.

[StrangeSox]

You know every time you guys keep doubling down on the "free stuff" thing you're just proving the point that conservatives do not ever listen to black communities or minority communities in general.

[StrangeSox]

Its incredibly racist. 50 million people get government assistance. You'd think they were all democrats and black the way its portrayed.

 

Yeah, that's a huge component of it. The whole "welfare queen" myth and everything. Those people get all that free goody stuff, us people are just trying to scrape by and get hardly anything from the government at all.

[RockRaines]

That's bulls***. Those are literal campaign promises made by Democrats they vote for. We're going to give you more money for schools, more money for housing, we're going to stop crime, blah blah. They promise "stuff" and they don't deliver the "stuff."

Running on a platform to solve the city's issues doesnt seem like a problem to me. What's exactly stopping those things from coming to fruition? Or were they just flat out lying in your opinion?

[StrangeSox]

Like I'm pretty sure that if black people want to listen to Republicans and even vote for them, nothing is stopping them*

 

*except Republicans lol

[lostfan]

It seems like you're recusing Democrats while blaming whites who are also Democrats.

I don't actually even know what you're asking me here. You want me to just give a blanket condemnation of Democrats? Why? I am not backing out and taking binary views of complicated things. I literally can't do it.

 

This is gonna sound conceited, but I'm waaaaaaaay too educated to pretend 6 decades of nationwide historical events are part of a single trend so I can reduce everything I see down to things Democrats did vs. things Republicans did. My brain will not even process that.

[Jenksismyhero]

I swear to God I answered this like 3 different ways already. lol are you thinking black voters in Chicago are big fans of Rahm Emanuel? Because no no no no no NO.

 

"Because they live in the City and are Democrats" is not an answer to "why do blacks continue to vote overwhelmingly democratic when the Democrats aren't helping them."

 

And no i'm not thinking they're fans of Rahm. But 60% of them voted to re-elect him. And come time for the next election we all know another Democrat with the same promises he made about education and crime will get the vast majority of the votes.

[lostfan]

"Because they live in the City and are Democrats" is not an answer to "why do blacks continue to vote overwhelmingly democratic when the Democrats aren't helping them."

 

And no i'm not thinking they're fans of Rahm. But 60% of them voted to re-elect him. And come time for the next election we all know another Democrat with the same promises he made about education and crime will get the vast majority of the votes.

There are different groups of Democrats within Chicago who live in different parts of the city who want different things and vote for different Democratic candidates. They don't all come from some generic Democrat factory.

[Quin]

One of the most annoying things I've noticed in this entire election, going back to the primaries, is that black voters only vote Democrat/Clinton because they don't know any better and are going off of name recognition/brainwashed by the Democrats.

 

A friend that supported Bernie looked me dead in the eye and said that.

 

This rhetoric is just stupidly racist and is basically reducing black political action and intelligence to a dehumanizing level.